(Pre)First Cycle, feedback appreciated.

[Nunked]

Hi,

I'm 25 and have been weight training on and off my whole life (natural) and was nearing what I believed to be 60% of my genetic max after a good two years of solid training with the necessary rests and nutrition required to optimize natural training

However, I was injured in a grappling tournament, requiring surgery that put me down for 8 months. Lost basically all of my progress.

I have been back at it again for about 6 months now and start a rest cycle starting tomorrow to let my joints/ligaments/tendons get some rest.

I do plan on using some gear from a reliable source on my next 8 week cycle with the intentions of getting me back to where I was pre-injury in a shorter amount of time (no intentions of exceeding genetic max).

This WILL be my first (and likely only) venture with juice so I want to make sure I have my shit straight before I make the leap.

First, I plan on using a stack of methandrostenolone(10mg/3x per day) and nandrolone (200-300 mg/week). I chose this stack because I do want somewhat fast results yet I want them to stick. I also like nandrolone b/c of my research showing the risk to benefit factor to be favorable for newbs. Are my statements in this paragraph accurate is my research flawed?

Second, as far as post cycle therapy (pct) goes... This is where most of my confusions lies. I understand to start using Nolvadex relative to the time of the longest drug's half life (in this case nandrolone), so would one week be correct?

Also, I've read alot about HCG, should I take this throughout my cycle as I have read in som threads?

Also, this thread(forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=519245&page=1) mentions a few other supplements that aid in post cycle therapy (pct) such as fenugreek, 6oxo, and DHEA, are these worthy of adding to my regimen?


Basically, my main concern is getting this post cycle therapy (pct) (and any on-cycle therapy) 100% nailed before starting this venture. From what I can gather, based on the drugs I chose, start nolvadex (as it is better than Clomid), 6oxo, fenugreek, and DHEA 1 week after last nandrolone dose. Also I plan on stopping dbol use on same day as last nandrolone dose.

As far as any on-cycle therapy, is Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) a required supplement for regaining natural test levels?

I understand all the basics of natural test and HGH production involving proper rest, nutrition (with plenty of healthy fats for natural hgh and test), and not eating simple sugars before bed to reduce insulin spike causing decreased HGH production during first hours of sleep.


So... to sum it up here's my plan:

methandrostenolone(10mg/3x per day) and nandrolone (200-300 mg/week)
x8 weeks

wk8- last dose of both drugs on same day

wk9: 40mg Nolva, 600 6oxo, 3 fenugreek caps, DHEA 200mg
wk10: 40mg Nolva, 600 6oxo, 4 fenugreek caps, DHEA 200mg
wk11: 20mg Nolva, 300 6oxo, 5 fenugreek caps, DHEA 100mg
wk12: 10mg Nolva, 300 6oxo, 6 fenugreek caps, DHEA 100mg

^ All while maintaing proper diet and rest schedules, and Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) while on-cycle(?)


Someone please tell me if I have invested enough time in my research or if I am in over my head lol. I have not yet started this and refuse to until I have everything down to a T, no pun intended .

Thanks for your time!

 

[brother bundy]

damn bro your cycle looks all messed up no testosterone as the base novla for post cycle therapy (pct) when using decca aint going to cut it.For your first cycle everyone one here will say test c or e at 10 to 12 weeks 500mg split in two shots.If u use decca u need prami or caber Pct should be clomid and Do more research before u go with the dbol and decca ask vets questions and learn from this place.

 

[noobmuscle]

What's your age and stats? Hard to give appropriate advice without that.

So D-Bol and Deca for your first cycle. Am I reading that correct?

As someone else has already mentioned, Testosterone ONLY is always suggested for first cycle. There are several reasons for this, but mainly, test is, and always will be, your base. Most people (with any biological inteligence) would never dream of running any cycle without test as the pillar.

Deca does what it's suppose to, but without the test and stacking it appropriately, your gonna have a limp dick for months and maybe longer after you stop. Even if you were gonna run Deca, 8 weeks would be a waste of your money. It would need to be ran at least 14 weeks as the gains are slow. None of this should matter though becuse it's TEST ONLY for your first cycle.

Some people like front loading with D-Bol, but most of the gains are water. Oral steroids are very toxic, even at 30mg a day. Running it for 8 weeks would probably cause more damage than what it is worth. Most choose to run orals in their advanced cycles for shorter terms to reduce toxicity. Once again though, this should be irrelevant as TEST ONLY is suggested for first time cycles.

I know you want to gain. Hell, we all do. But the gains should not be worth causing permanent damage to our natural levels. AAS always increases the risk for something to go wrong, so the least we can do is minimize the "risk to gain" ratio. You would gain a few pounds on that stack, but most would be water weight you would not hold onto and your sex life would go down the drain for the rest of the year.

PCT: If your only going to use 1 serm in your post cycle therapy (pct), make it Clomid. Not Nolva. This is considering of course, that you will do the right thing and run a TEST ONLY cycle the first time.

 

[lite wt rookie]

first off welcome to ology....second dont ever run a cycle without test ....your natural test shuts down when you use aas so unless you want to feel like total shit and screw yourself up make sure you include test... as far as cycle lenth I'd suggest you do 12 weeks ...8 weeks is a waste... hell it takes about week 5 for the long esters to kick in.....hcg is good to run during cycle but its not a must ...that being said imo it should be included....for post cycle therapy (pct) the usual recomended is clomid 50/50/50/50... you probably wont need nolva if its your first cycle and your only running test which is what you should do first to see how you react....I know you say this will be your only aas use but I'll tell you now your lying to yourself...lol...

anyway you should get blood work done to see what your natural levels are at before you do anything ...this will help you a ton down the road....make sure you read the " stickys" at the top of the page they are a huge help....

 

[noobmuscle]

anyway you should get blood work done to see what your natural levels are at before you do anything ...this will help you a ton down the road....make sure you read the " stickys" at the top of the page they are a huge help....

Good looking out on the blood test. I forgot about that. privatemdlabs.com There not expensive.

So true on the lying to yourself about 1 cycle too. If you really want to only use one, you may be able to do it... but those gains sure are nice....

 

[Nunked]

Thanks for the replies, and glad I asked lol .

So... Stats:

25 y/o
6'1''
215 lb total- ~180 lean, ~35 fat

Recent blood work (from free clinic paid for by work) put me at the "Excellent" range for all categories, can't remember exact numbers, though. Don't think they tested for test, though...

Got it, test for first cycle only with Clomid for post cycle therapy (pct). But, are the fenugreek and 6oxo and DHEA helpful, as well, or are they just gimmick products like most supplements?

Also, if using HCG, how many times per week/day?

Does Clomid 50/50/50/50 mean 50 mg for four weeks?

Other than that, I guess I'm off to see what's already been posted on test cycles, I assume there's quite a bit. Any links to known solid threads would be appreciated.

Thanks again!

 

[lite wt rookie]

clomid 50 mg everyday for 4 weeks......hcg is commonly run at 250 iu 2 times a week

 

[Nunked]

Edit: sorry didn't realIze I broke a rule...

 

[R1rider]

^ your not suppose to ask about or discuss prices.(rules)


however it is more than double what it should cost you

 

[Nunked]

Ok so from what I gather, Enanthate causes the least amount of side effects, is this true? I originally thought Propionate caused the least side effects?

 

[prophet]

Ok so from what I gather, Enanthate causes the least amount of side effects, is this true? I originally thought Propionate caused the least side effects?

neither causes any more side effects than the other. they are both the exact same hormone, simply attached to a different release mechanism. the only thing about e or p that could cause more or less sides is that p doesn't peak at the same levels that e does, so your overall test is lower, and people tend to do lower doses of p than e, so your peak levels would be even lower because of that.

any other difference is all smurfs and unicorns.

 

[Nunked]

Thanks for the quick reply.

So I guess what I'm getting at is: if it were your first cycle, which ester would you choose?

 

[prophet]

i would always choose long estered test, it means less injections. if you ever decided to try tren, that would be the time to consider short ester because it means the hormone becomes available to your body faster, so your body uses all of the hormone from one injection faster, meaning if the sides are overwhelming for one reason or another, you can bail on it and you won't still be cleaving hormone from the ester from your last injection for a couple of weeks.

otherwise, long ester > short ester, every time.

 

[R1rider]

Thanks for the quick reply.

So I guess what I'm getting at is: if it were your first cycle, which ester would you choose?

i would go with test e or test c

@500mg/week 10-12 weeks