Questions about & coming off TRT

[random3]

Hi all,

I am considering TRT treatment I'm a pretty healthy late 20's, work as a professional and do a heap of cardio. I'm 70kg at 180cm.

I have recently had my blood work done twice(6weeks apart) in the mornings and have 13.5nmol/L and 13nmol/L on the second blood test I had my LH levels checked which seemed normal at 2. I have been to an Endo (after the first BT) he was borderline as he didn't think the risk outweighed the benefit of TRT (young chap highly educated...).

My reasons for looking at TRT is low libido/energy. As I said I maintain a healthy lifestyle - I don't drink (not even coffee), smoke, do any drugs nor do I take any supplements.


While my Libido isn't what it use to be, I'm tossing up with the fact that my body isn't doing what it is capable of, hoping that TRT would get me over that line.

My question is though if I was to start a treatment of 100mg every 5 days ~, my endo made me aware that my natural T would stop being produced and it would act as a contraceptive (no plans on having kids in the next 4 years) also it would enlarge my prostate.

So my questions are, what is the risk of going on for 6monthes and seeing how my body handles it? I've read on the forums here that it's a lifetime gig and coming off it can further reduce my T.

Also due to work there maybe periods where I can only do one month on and one month off TRT (I guess this has it's own set of complexities).

I have tried to get in touch with MBB for a recommendation of a Dr. though my post count isn't high enough just yet.


Would love to hear your experiences and advice (I have all the blood work handy and will post as needed).

Cheers

 

[tbonexl]

Trt is a lifetime commitment. It's not going to be better if you try to come off. It will be much worse then now...

 

[random3]

Trt is a lifetime commitment. It's not going to be better if you try to come off. It will be much worse then now...

If there any research regarding this?

I'm just interested to know how 'some' body builders can cycle doses and then come off them with out too many side effects?

 

[halfwit]

If there any research regarding this?

I'm just interested to know how 'some' body builders can cycle doses and then come off them with out too many side effects?

You're experiencing what bodybuilders may encounter - a shutdown HPTA. Every time the HPTA is suppressed; which is caused by taking exogenous hormones, the pituitary gland may not always come back to full production of leutinizing hormone, causing low testosterone (secondary hypogonadism).

I'd suggest seeing if your doctor is willing to try a restart using SERMs before committing to the needle just yet. I don't know what the range for your LH was, but if it's MIU/mL - that's on the low side, which may indicate your pituitary is having problems signalling your testes to produce ample testosterone. SERMs are drugs that trick the pituitary gland into releasing more leutinizing hormone by telling the brain that it has low estradiol, which is created from testosterone. This would be your best bet in my opinion as SERMs are going to tell you IF your testes are capable of producing testosterone again with a proper signal (LH). Keep in mind, that even if this works temporarily - it may not be a permanent solution.

My .02c

Edit: Yes, there are a plethora of studies on the subject. Just google HPTA suppression and exogenous testosterone/TRT/HRT.

 

[random3]

My second question here is...

Well I understand people have a legitimate use for TRT to be frank I think I can easily live without it...

But then again I am interested in the slight performance benifits associated with TRT I'm not looking to bulk up, some extra strength would be amazing (I do a fair bit of strengt/core work) but would like to see if it can help me give me a bit more of an edge of where I feel I can't go much further no matter how much training / dieting I do.

Although my levels are around 13 - let's assume they of a normal level for my age. Would I see a much more performance based increase? Even if cycled for just 6months with out doing too much range to the body when cycling off?

Hope it makes sense...

 

[Megatron28]

My second question here is...

Well I understand people have a legitimate use for TRT to be frank I think I can easily live without it...

But then again I am interested in the slight performance benifits associated with TRT I'm not looking to bulk up, some extra strength would be amazing (I do a fair bit of strengt/core work) but would like to see if it can help me give me a bit more of an edge of where I feel I can't go much further no matter how much training / dieting I do.

Although my levels are around 13 - let's assume they of a normal level for my age. Would I see a much more performance based increase? Even if cycled for just 6months with out doing too much range to the body when cycling off?

Hope it makes sense...

The R in TRT stands for Replacement. That means the therapy just tries to restore normal healthy Testosterone levels. Your 13nmol (which is 375ng/dl) is getting dangerously low. Below 300ng is considered hypogonadal. Below 350ng is considered borderline hypogonadal.

There are serious longterm health issues associated with being hypogonadal. It is not something you want to allow to persist. You definitely need to work on getting your testosterone levels back to normal which is closer to 600ng/dl. Hopefully you can figure out what the cause of your Low T is and correct it.

Having normal Testosterone levels would allow you to achieve the muscle and strength gains that you average healthy male is able to achieve.

Running a six month "cycle" would further suppress your HPTA. When you come off, your natural testosterone levels very likely would be even lower than they are currently .

 

[random3]

Not sure how these numbers relate my doctor convinced me they are perfectly fine...


Anyhow my

FSH is 2 IU/L (1-8)
LH is 3 IU/L (2-8) range

 

[Megatron28]

Not sure how these numbers relate my doctor convinced me they are perfectly fine...


Anyhow my

FSH is 2 IU/L (1-8)
LH is 3 IU/L (2-8) range

Give the following thread a read. It will explain the connection between Total Testosterone, LH and FSH along with how they are used in diagnosing hypogonadism.

http://www.steroidology.com/forum/testosterone-replacement-therapy/662394-basic-trt-overview.html

 

[random3]

Had a good read of that and other HPTA text though I can't work though I'm not entirely sure what it means for me.


Basically I would like the get some of the benefits of TRT with the least amount of side effects. I'm still not entirely sure how cycling the dose of 100-180mg per week for 4 weeks on and 4 weeks off would result.

What would the worst case scenario be if I trialled it for a month or two and discovered it wasn't for me?
Would your balls still shrink in this time? Test levels would obviously be lower when coming off though would they regain to my previous levels after the 'trial'?

 

[Alpin]

Get Bio Avail.T and Free T both tested. Won't hurt to test SHBG and Estradiol (or sensitive estradiol if available to u) Before 8 AM after rest ful nights sleep.
Come back and tell us results.

 

[Megatron28]

Had a good read of that and other HPTA text though I can't work though I'm not entirely sure what it means for me.


Basically I would like the get some of the benefits of TRT with the least amount of side effects. I'm still not entirely sure how cycling the dose of 100-180mg per week for 4 weeks on and 4 weeks off would result.

What would the worst case scenario be if I trialled it for a month or two and discovered it wasn't for me?
Would your balls still shrink in this time? Test levels would obviously be lower when coming off though would they regain to my previous levels after the 'trial'?

Doing this would make your situation worse. It would further suppress your HPTA function.

 

[TRTnooby]

Had a good read of that and other HPTA text though I can't work though I'm not entirely sure what it means for me.


Basically I would like the get some of the benefits of TRT with the least amount of side effects. I'm still not entirely sure how cycling the dose of 100-180mg per week for 4 weeks on and 4 weeks off would result.

What would the worst case scenario be if I trialled it for a month or two and discovered it wasn't for me?
Would your balls still shrink in this time? Test levels would obviously be lower when coming off though would they regain to my previous levels after the 'trial'?

You would barely be at therapeutic levels in that 4 weeks, while your natural production would be suppressed. Then you cycle off and feel worse then you did before you started. There is a reason people don't run 4 week cycles. Don't do this.

There is no trying out TRT to see if you like it. If you don't want to commit to a lifetime of replacement therapy, DON'T START TRT. Try to raise your levels with diet and lifestyle changes, try or try an HTPA restart. You aren't going to figure out something no one else has thought of yet, all you are going to do with these dumb ideas is fuck yourself up.

 

[random3]

There is no trying out TRT to see if you like it. If you don't want to commit to a lifetime of replacement therapy, DON'T START TRT. Try to raise your levels with diet and lifestyle changes, try or try an HTPA restart. You aren't going to figure out something no one else has thought of yet, all you are going to do with these dumb ideas is fuck yourself up.

So after my latest results 13.5 - 13 - 9, relating that to sleep. Spoke to another Doc today he insistently dismissed TRT which I now agree with after the research... He referred me onto SARMS or GHRP-6.

I've researched GW50... in the past and thought it's too risky, considering the clinical trials it's failed. Same as all peptides there is alot of money in it for those who sell it with little knowledge of long term side effects...

So now I'm leaning towards GHRP-6, but I'd like to get some non bias opinions on it (hard to find proper medical papers on it).

Cheers

 

[Alpin]

Hi all,

I am considering TRT treatment I'm a pretty healthy late 20's, work as a professional and do a heap of cardio. I'm 70kg at 180cm.

I have recently had my blood work done twice(6weeks apart) in the mornings and have 13.5nmol/L and 13nmol/L on the second blood test I had my LH levels checked which seemed normal at 2. I have been to an Endo (after the first BT) he was borderline as he didn't think the risk outweighed the benefit of TRT (young chap highly educated...).

My reasons for looking at TRT is low libido/energy. As I said I maintain a healthy lifestyle - I don't drink (not even coffee), smoke, do any drugs nor do I take any supplements.


While my Libido isn't what it use to be, I'm tossing up with the fact that my body isn't doing what it is capable of, hoping that TRT would get me over that line.

My question is though if I was to start a treatment of 100mg every 5 days ~, my endo made me aware that my natural T would stop being produced and it would act as a contraceptive (no plans on having kids in the next 4 years) also it would enlarge my prostate.

So my questions are, what is the risk of going on for 6monthes and seeing how my body handles it? I've read on the forums here that it's a lifetime gig and coming off it can further reduce my T.

Also due to work there maybe periods where I can only do one month on and one month off TRT (I guess this has it's own set of complexities).

I have tried to get in touch with MBB for a recommendation of a Dr. though my post count isn't high enough just yet.


Would love to hear your experiences and advice (I have all the blood work handy and will post as needed).

Cheers

Who are you speaking of when you say "young chap highly educated" ?

 

[Havasu]

You may be educated, but also seem hard headed. You come here to ask questions, and get information, then you dismiss all of it after seeing another Doc. I can tell you the vets here know what they are talking about. Your Doctor, in this case, does not. GW50 will not raise testosterone, or libido. GHRP-6 is a Growth Hormone Releasing Protein. That's also NOT going to fix all the symptoms of low testosterone. You know what fixes low testosterone, taking testosterone.

HOWEVER, if you want to make sure no stone is left unturned before committing to TRT then make sure everything else is in line. Make sure your Vitamin D, and DHEA levels are good. This could help raise testosterone naturally if your body is capable of it, but it's just lacking some things.

As far as having children if you take HCG along with the Testosterone you can keep your fertility. Most people are using a protocol of Testosterone shots split into two weekly doses, every 3.5 days. You take HCG 24 hours before the Testosterone shot in an amount around 250iu-500iu. Depending on your dosage and your propensity to aromatize you may need a very low dose of an aromatase inhibitor like Arimidex, however some do not need this, especially if your dosing is low.

 

[Alpin]

edited

 

[random3]

Sorry I think I was a little misunderstood. There is no correlation between TRT and IQ as far I'm aware.

I was saying the Endocrinologist I went to was very switched on (young and highly educated).

I agree with all of you here - I can survive without TRT and I don't think my quality of life will suffer. More regular sleep will most defiantly help. It was silly for me to think that by using TRT, I could improve my not so bad quality at present and also benefit from it in a performance manner (in an athletic sense). Hence the thread and much reading online.

So we have ruled out TRT.

The new Dr (I sure hope he is a Dr..., though you never know with Anti aging Dr's) immediately picked up between my training I 'consume' a heap of test (high amounts of cardio) so he recommended SARMS / GHRP-6) to tell my body to keep pumping T as I understand it...

Now I am completely aware they have a highly invested interest in the products they sell... and market it as the lowest risk best all round solution sort of a thing...

As I mentioned earlier, I did a bit of research with SARMS (GW50...) and warned myself well away from it due to it's failed clinical trials (if you go online you will get some forums trying to market it really hard and dismiss all claims and believe it is completely safe).

I understand there is a risk with anything of this matter, though TRT is medically approved. We know the risks involved with it...

As for SARMS, GHRP-6 considering it isn't approved for human consumption as far as I'm aware... makes me very sceptical of it. Though GHRP-6 seems to be the better option from the medical documents i've read.

So here I am asking for your opinions on the matter, as I do value your opinions and maybe there is some text somewhere that I have missed and you may recommend.

Obviously I would like to get my facts straight and weigh up the risk/reward before I commit to anything.

 

[halfwit]

You DO have low values of testosterone AND would certainly benefit from TRT. I don't understand why there's such a level of apprehension at play here; can you SURVIVE with low T? Sure.

But once you realize how significant of a difference there is, it's a no brainer. The longer we're hypogonadal, the more we chalk things up to getting older, or just being "off".

While I think SERM's should be investigated, I do not believe SARMs or peptides are the answer here.

 

[Alpin]

Thanks for clearing things up.
keep in mind your thyroid, pancreas need healthy levels of Testosterone to function. You may have issues with hypothyroidism, diabetes in the future the longer you live hypogonadal.
Your heart has alot of T receptors as well.

 

[random3]

To clear up part two.

The Endocrinologist, examined my balls looked over my body closely he didn't have concern for TRT at this stage in my life...

The Two biggest thing effecting my T results are my sleep patterns which alternate highly between days and nights (due to work) and the high amounts of cardio, I'll aim to do one more test when well rested and when my T should be at it's highest this will give me a definitive answer it's been a crazy few months with work so this should settle down now, it has been interesting to note I have been getting more frequent wood as I've allowed my body to relax.

So my plan going forward will be seeing how my bloods go in the next few months if they are the same without natural improvement due to lifestyle changes I'd most likely go on TRT.

In the short term, I am still keen to try SARMS / GHRP-6 pins albeit with more research on the matter I have a good handle on how each works though I'd like to know more.

Thanks again guys!

P.s. I am searching these forms for a bit more info - though the reason I'm asking you guys is there is the bigger picture and B. generally speaking those parts of the forums that discuss that are full of 'product reps' that will tell me it's gold dust