Schredders summer training journal

Schredder said:
(...) I gotta say the Test/Deca/Mast combo beats out Test/Tren/Mast for bulking hands down! The fullness and roundness from the Deca is unreal. First time using AMLs Deca and im impressed, as I knew I would be. Not PIP whatsoever from either of the three compounds. Still a ways to go yet before I dice up a bit.

Not sure what I want to run at that point yet, was gonna run some Ace post Deca but decided against that. Maybe just Test and Mast or possibly adding in some Var. We will see..
Click to expand...

There's definitely a reason deca is the standard when it comes to bulking, especially if you control the bloat via diet & AI you'll steadily add quality mass like no other AAS (besides maybe drol)

For cutting, I'd stick to the tried & true...tren, with some mast if you want but don't bother using short esters - I'm running long esters straight into this show actually as a test/trial :)
 
snowpatrol123 said:
There's definitely a reason deca is the standard when it comes to bulking, especially if you control the bloat via diet & AI you'll steadily add quality mass like no other AAS (besides maybe drol)

For cutting, I'd stick to the tried & true...tren, with some mast if you want but don't bother using short esters - I'm running long esters straight into this show actually as a test/trial :)
Click to expand...

I was thinking that. Just keep the mast going, lower test dose, drop deca and and tren A. I was goin back and forth on the Tren but ive decided to run it.

So now this is what Im thinkin.....lower test dose, drop deca and mast, and in tren and var. Havent ran var in a couple years but I really liked it.
 
Sounds logical - this time around I'm keeping test pretty steady, everything (test/tren/mast) at 200mg EOD and liking it...could just be placebo but I seem to have more energy this way.
 
bigben66 said:
How many Tren runs you had now buddy?
Click to expand...

It seems to weasel it's way into every cycle...so this is probably at least the fourth discrete time if not fifth or sixth

I've run it (way too) high, moderate and low-moderate and found 500-700mg/wk (for enth) is about right for me

Ran tren ace with low test prop (700-1000mg tren + 150-300mg prop) and wasn't a huge fan...ever since I've done at least 500mg test (or more if bulking) and that's the only way to go, as long as you have a good AI protocol.
 
Hello everyone,
First of all thank you Schredder for this very informative and detailed log. I have spent the last two hours reading every bit of info that you have mentioned, along with the other reputable gentlemen over here. It is nice to hear from the pros who keep it real and who humble themselves to others. So thank you once again, I hope you keep this log alive even after you are done this cycle.
One question, you have mentioned that you would pick a test/deca/mast over a test/tren/mast cycle for bulking. Do you mind elaborating a bit on that. As far as I know, tren is great for putting on mass even on a shy caloric surplus, or even on maintenance calories. So I can only imagine the capabilities of tren to add on lean and quality mass if it was to accompany a 1000+ surplus calories!
Thank you in advance
 
willpower said:
Hello everyone,
First of all thank you Schredder for this very informative and detailed log. I have spent the last two hours reading every bit of info that you have mentioned, along with the other reputable gentlemen over here. It is nice to hear from the pros who keep it real and who humble themselves to others. So thank you once again, I hope you keep this log alive even after you are done this cycle.
One question, you have mentioned that you would pick a test/deca/mast over a test/tren/mast cycle for bulking. Do you mind elaborating a bit on that. As far as I know, tren is great for putting on mass even on a shy caloric surplus, or even on maintenance calories. So I can only imagine the capabilities of tren to add on lean and quality mass if it was to accompany a 1000+ surplus calories!
Thank you in advance
Click to expand...

You will add more mass on a deca cycle, though it's tough to say if it'd be more muscle or just more overall...mass.

FWIW, the most actual growth/mass I put on was with a fairly simple cycle:

test 250mg E3D
eq 300mg E3D
anadrol 50mg ED

Probably put on over 30lbs and kept 10-12 over 4-5 months...without any GH or insulin


More recently, I stayed leaner and preferred this...still gained ~10lbs of muscle in 3-4 months:

test 375mg EOD
tren 200mg EOD
anadrol 50-100mg ED first eight weeks
waited four weeks then sdrol 20mg ED last four weeks

+ AM peptides: 100mcg ED (each: mod grf 1-29 + ghrp-2), wait 10mins then 5iu (upped mid way to 10) GH
+ insulin preWO: 8-12iu humalog on back, leg and sometimes chest days w/ 100g HBCD/25g peptopro (homemade plazma)
+ igf1-lr3 postWO: 30-50mcg four weeks on/four off
+ during the 'off' of igf1 I added 10iu humulinR postWO on the big bodypart days instead
+ metformin 2x 850mg/d (meals 3 and 6 of 8)

Always the usual ancillaries (aromasin, cialis, nac, tudca, coq10, omega3 and carditone)

I workout in the mornings so the peptides/GH then slin are timed pretty nicely in that regard...not sure the IGF-1 was worthwhile but w/e
 
willpower said:
Hello everyone,
First of all thank you Schredder for this very informative and detailed log. I have spent the last two hours reading every bit of info that you have mentioned, along with the other reputable gentlemen over here. It is nice to hear from the pros who keep it real and who humble themselves to others. So thank you once again, I hope you keep this log alive even after you are done this cycle.
One question, you have mentioned that you would pick a test/deca/mast over a test/tren/mast cycle for bulking. Do you mind elaborating a bit on that. As far as I know, tren is great for putting on mass even on a shy caloric surplus, or even on maintenance calories. So I can only imagine the capabilities of tren to add on lean and quality mass if it was to accompany a 1000+ surplus calories!
Thank you in advance
Click to expand...

First off, thanks man for the compliment.

Why i say Deca over Tren for bulking is because the amount of sheer size and mass you can put on with Deca is much more than with Tren. Is that Mass all muscle? No, there is some bloat and water. But, during bulk thats ok, at least with me. Im pretty lean as it is so the amount of bloat, altough there, is minimal.

As for Tren and bulking, it does a great job as well. But the gains are very different. They are mostly ALL lean dry muscle mass. No water and no bloat. You will not get that thickness and fullness amd overall size that Deca gives you but the quality of gains is better.

Strength wise, altough Tren is far superior in strength on paper the gains in strength ive experienced are the same with both. Possibly better with Deca actually.
 
Schredder said:
First off, thanks man for the compliment.

Why i say Deca over Tren for bulking is because the amount of sheer size and mass you can put on with Deca is much more than with Tren. Is that Mass all muscle? No, there is some bloat and water. But, during bulk thats ok, at least with me. Im pretty lean as it is so the amount of bloat, altough there, is minimal.

As for Tren and bulking, it does a great job as well. But the gains are very different. They are mostly ALL lean dry muscle mass. No water and no bloat. You will not get that thickness and fullness amd overall size that Deca gives you but the quality of gains is better.

Strength wise, altough Tren is far superior in strength on paper the gains in strength ive experienced are the same with both. Possibly better with Deca actually.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the reply Schredder. I agree with you on that. I wouldn't mind some water retention, which I think contributes to extra strength, like you have mentioned through eating carbs and high sodium meals before training. I guess it is a personal preference after all. I prefer tren because I know that most of my mass gain (though might be less than those gains attained with deca) are going to be retained after the cycle is over.

I know you have mentioned that you dont count macros and calories. But how much of a surplus do you estimate your diet to be? You said that if bulking, then eat everything in sight, so do you think eating a 1000 or 1500+ calories will still be considered beneficial? I'm aware that when bulking, worrying about a little fat gain shouldnt be a priority, but after how many surplus calories do you think it would become redundant to eat more?
 
snowpatrol123 said:
You will add more mass on a deca cycle, though it's tough to say if it'd be more muscle or just more overall...mass.

FWIW, the most actual growth/mass I put on was with a fairly simple cycle:

test 250mg E3D
eq 300mg E3D
anadrol 50mg ED

Probably put on over 30lbs and kept 10-12 over 4-5 months...without any GH or insulin


More recently, I stayed leaner and preferred this...still gained ~10lbs of muscle in 3-4 months:

test 375mg EOD
tren 200mg EOD
anadrol 50-100mg ED first eight weeks
waited four weeks then sdrol 20mg ED last four weeks

+ AM peptides: 100mcg ED (each: mod grf 1-29 + ghrp-2), wait 10mins then 5iu (upped mid way to 10) GH
+ insulin preWO: 8-12iu humalog on back, leg and sometimes chest days w/ 100g HBCD/25g peptopro (homemade plazma)
+ igf1-lr3 postWO: 30-50mcg four weeks on/four off
+ during the 'off' of igf1 I added 10iu humulinR postWO on the big bodypart days instead
+ metformin 2x 850mg/d (meals 3 and 6 of 8)

Always the usual ancillaries (aromasin, cialis, nac, tudca, coq10, omega3 and carditone)

I workout in the mornings so the peptides/GH then slin are timed pretty nicely in that regard...not sure the IGF-1 was worthwhile but w/e
Click to expand...
Thanks man for your input. It seems like the eq/test/anadrol was a great cycle. I have yet to experience with eq. Maybe next cycle I will give it a go.
So you are a fan of running test higher than tren? I know there is a big debate on that, but I only tried tren with higher test dosages, and that was very good, with no issues to be mentioned.
I have no experience with peptides, hgh or insulin, it is tempting sometimes to try and see how my body would fare when using them.
 
willpower said:
Thanks man for your input. It seems like the eq/test/anadrol was a great cycle. I have yet to experience with eq. Maybe next cycle I will give it a go.
So you are a fan of running test higher than tren? I know there is a big debate on that, but I only tried tren with higher test dosages, and that was very good, with no issues to be mentioned.
I have no experience with peptides, hgh or insulin, it is tempting sometimes to try and see how my body would fare when using them.
Click to expand...

I think the test/eq/drol cycle I did would've actually been better by subbing in deca for the eq, but yeah it was great.

I've done low test with high tren, it wasn't horrible but the moderate to high test with moderate to high tren cycles I've done have all been much better...all about controlling E2 (with an AI) in my opinion.

Insulin is very powerful, but can be dangerous if misused and can easily just make you fat if you aren't very careful...definitely an intermediate (or higher) level addition.
 
willpower said:
Thanks for the reply Schredder. I agree with you on that. I wouldn't mind some water retention, which I think contributes to extra strength, like you have mentioned through eating carbs and high sodium meals before training. I guess it is a personal preference after all. I prefer tren because I know that most of my mass gain (though might be less than those gains attained with deca) are going to be retained after the cycle is over.

I know you have mentioned that you dont count macros and calories. But how much of a surplus do you estimate your diet to be? You said that if bulking, then eat everything in sight, so do you think eating a 1000 or 1500+ calories will still be considered beneficial? I'm aware that when bulking, worrying about a little fat gain shouldnt be a priority, but after how many surplus calories do you think it would become redundant to eat more?
Click to expand...

To be 100% honest dude, i have no idea and any number would be random guess. Also, it not the same every day, it varies because I eat different amounts of food on different days. Lets say Im super hungry one day, well then I eat a lot. Lets say Im not very hungry the next, well then I eat less. Even the days I eat less though is prolly still 3x more than the average person would eat its just less for me.

As far as what I think would be redundant or a 'waste of food' for lack of a better term. I honestly dont know. It really all depends on what type of metabolism a guy has. Lots of people dont take that into consideration. They count macros, base on a formula that takes into no account that this guys metabolism might be 4x faster than the next guys. You ever see the really tall guys that are crazy skinny, they have a little muscle, are borderline sick looking but not actually sick? Do you think that guy should have the same macro set up as lets say, a short chubbier guy? Even though these two guys do the EXACT same thing as eachother every single day, they both want to build muscle, they burn the same amount of cals according to TDEE. FUCK NO!! That would be ridiculous.

Also, you remember back in the 70s and 80s how fucking awesome those bodybuilders looked with the small waists and wide shoulders, a real piece of art these guys were....these dudes didnt count macros, they probably didnt even know what a macro was. Even Lee Priest came out and said. 'No, I dont, and never have counts macros. You look around at the people who count macros, they look like shit'. Thats what he said. Now, I dont totally agree with the last part of the statement but its more about being in tune with your body knowing what it meeds and wants and work well off of and doing that rather than macro counting.
 
I totally agree with all that Schredder. I know that no two individuals with same dimensions,age, and training will have to eat the same. Metabolism rate is an absent factor in all the caloric equations. They are only beneficial as a start point to those who want to calculate what they eat, which is not a bad thing either. Like you said, it is what works for every individual.
The reason I asked the question, is because sometimes I wonder if I eat more than I already do while on cycle, will gear still be able to utilize the very excess of food that I am eating or not. I am very good at gauging how much I am eating and I can tell when I am eating in surplus than what I need to maintain my weight, and I can tell when I am eating much more than that. Sometimes I wonder if I should keep eating more and more, thinking that I am on cycle and since I'm not putting on fat with my current surplus, then I should probably eat more and increase my gains.

Anyway, I'm sorry for posting so many posts on your log, but it is easy to get carried away I guess.

How is your progress these days? Did you replace Deca with tren yet?
 
Last edited:
Back and tris last night

WG chin machine 4 sets
BB rows 4 sets
MTS iso lateral high row 3 sets
CG cable row 3 sets
Machine shrugs 4 sets

OH DB extensions 3 sets banged out 40s for 15!!
Cambered bar underhand pushdowns 3 sets
Single arm pushdowns 3 sets

Managed to pinch the tip of my finger between 2 45s loading them on the bar for BB rows. The nail is all bruised now and hurts like shit, lol.

Good workout though, went fairly heavy and felt strong. Kept it simple. Had a few drops in there as well as a few loaded stretches. Chest and bis up next.
 
willpower said:
I totally agree with all that Schredder. I know that no two individuals with same dimensions,age, and training will have to eat the same. Metabolism rate is an absent factor in all the caloric equations. They are only beneficial as a start point to those who want to calculate what they eat, which is not a bad thing either. Like you said, it is what works for every individual.
The reason I asked the question, is because sometimes I wonder if I eat more than I already do while on cycle, will gear still be able to utilize the very excess of food that I am eating or not. I am very good at gauging how much I am eating and I can tell when I am eating in surplus than what I need to maintain my weight, and I can tell when I am eating much more than that. Sometimes I wonder if I should keep eating more and more, thinking that I am on cycle and since I'm not putting on fat with my current surplus, then I should probably eat more and increase my gains.

Anyway, I'm sorry for posting so many posts on your log, but it is easy to get carried away I guess.

How is your progress these days? Did you replace Deca with tren yet?
Click to expand...

Post as much as you want, or as long a post as you want, lol. The time to eat more would be once you start gaining weight adjusting to the new mass that itself will burn calories.

If you arent gaining any fat up the cals man. That is in fact if you dont find a lil fat gain and want to actually bulk. At some point tho more isnt better. Even on gear you body, at some point isnt going to absorb and actually use the nutrients. Youll end up plugged up, bloated and feel like shit.

My progress is fantasic actually. Weight wise, I dont know as I dont step on the scale very often, but I am very pleased with how I look. Ive added a slight bit of fat around mid section. Which isnt an issue, i can drop fat like butter melts if I clean up the food a bit and drop down carbs. Strength is ridiculous. Im the strongest Ive been to date. And im feeling good. Havent switch out Deca for Tren yet. This is gonna be a long bulk, another 10 weeks or so to go then an 8 week 'cut' which will be set up with cleaner food choises a little less carbs and a lil bit of cardio........maybe, well see about cardio, lol.
 
And im not bashing guys who count macros or nutritional coaches who have their clients count. Its just not what I do. I did it twice and hated every minute of it.....HAVING to eat a set out amount of food.

Weird though about the midsectiom fat gain. Everything else is still super lean. I have veins and striations everywhere, like even veins I never had before. Lol weird. And the fat like I said is minimal. You can still see all my abs there just a lil 'softer' looking.
 
Schredder said:
Post as much as you want, or as long a post as you want, lol. The time to eat more would be once you start gaining weight adjusting to the new mass that itself will burn calories.

If you arent gaining any fat up the cals man. That is in fact if you dont find a lil fat gain and want to actually bulk. At some point tho more isnt better. Even on gear you body, at some point isnt going to absorb and actually use the nutrients. Youll end up plugged up, bloated and feel like shit.

My progress is fantasic actually. Weight wise, I dont know as I dont step on the scale very often, but I am very pleased with how I look. Ive added a slight bit of fat around mid section. Which isnt an issue, i can drop fat like butter melts if I clean up the food a bit and drop down carbs. Strength is ridiculous. Im the strongest Ive been to date. And im feeling good. Havent switch out Deca for Tren yet. This is gonna be a long bulk, another 10 weeks or so to go then an 8 week 'cut' which will be set up with cleaner food choises a little less carbs and a lil bit of cardio........maybe, well see about cardio, lol.
Click to expand...

That's what I will do. I will adjust my food intake as I progress, if no fat is being gained then I will increase my calories more until I reach the point of counter productivity that you have mentioned (stressful stage)http://www.steroidology.com/forum/m...28-schredders-summer-training-journal-10.html....

That's amazing man. I'm glad to hear that your cycle is going very well. Hopefully you will keep growing exponentially size and strength wise.

As for your plan to cut in 10 weeks, dont you think that it is better to maintain for a while after your bulk so that your body is used to the extra muscle mass that you would have put on. This way you wont lose most of it while cutting the far. What are your thoughts on this?
 
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