shgb level
- Thread starter gmann
- Start date
cjw2021
Pro Bodybuilder
I keep mine at 8. teens is good. use stanazolol. If your doc can't get that then danazol. I don't know a pharm that has stanz anymore. I know stanz can lower it most effectively. I am ignorant to how long danazol will keep it lowered once the drug is out of your system. TR90 may know from labs.
Do you guys ever worry about the long term effect of taking drugs that were never approved for this use (off label)...like danazol, AI's, stan, etc?
I figure we are all lab rats when it comes to lifetime test, but just wonder about the other "stuff."
As regards the OP question, with a test of 1000, the SHBG will be physiologically lowered as high levels of test normally suppress SHBG production in the liver. Wouldn't be surprised to see it fall significantly from your initial value.
cjw2021
Pro Bodybuilder
I don't know where you read SHBG is going to be suppressed from high testosterone. If anything SHBG will elevate in the presence of high testosterone to reduce levels of free testosterone in the blood. The body is an equilibrium machine. It is not going to try and elevate free testosterone even more in the presence of an excess of total testosterone. I was on testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) for a good 6 months and my SHBG was still 60.
As for stanazolol, the dose I use to lower SHBG is 25mg/wk. You do realize pro bodybuilders using stanazolol as a bodybuilding drug are using upwards of 100-150mg a day. These are using it for a lot more than to suppress SHBG. And of course at that dose there will be side effects. All you need is 25mg a week of this drug to suppress shbg levels to where they should be. At that dose there are no side effects, not even joint pain. I don't know about danazol as I've never taken it and there is not much literature on it. Granted it does take 6-12 weeks on that 25mg/week protocol to effectively lower SHBG under 20, and an increased dose may lower it faster. For maintenance purposes 25mg a week works too.
As for anti estrogens causing side effects - high estrogen will cause a lot of health problems. I do not get side effects from a reasonably dosed Aromatase inhibitor (AI). All in all the side effects from my testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) protocol are next to none I can list. All my labs are normal. That's a lot more than many people can say who don't even do TRT.
Last edited:
CHIP WADOWSKI
New member
hey bro... My days of getting into pissing contests with guys like you are long since gone. It's quite obvious that you are one of the few left out there that have an agenda against hrt/trt. It's made very clear by the fact that none of your posts are ever helpful or even humorous, yet rather you sit back and lurk and try to find ways of being combative. I really think that we should all let you have your moment in the sun..... Start up your very own "why i hate hrt/trt" thread and we all promise to read it so it will show you how many views you got. Ok? Sounds great!
cjw2021
Pro Bodybuilder
Agreed. testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) is doing more good than anything in even our immediate forum members' lives. I would trade nothing for when my testosterone level was 200 and I wanted to jump off a bridge everyday and couldn't get a hard on or get out of bed pre treatment. All this demonizing is generally from people who haven't experienced low T. A doc I know has been on testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) for 20 years and is in his late 60s and still bangs his hot 27 year old girlfriend 3 times a week and looks and feels like a guy much younger than his age. I agree about the hater thread. We should start one hater thread and debunk all the myths so it can all get brought out in one thread as opposed to 50.
Don't forget Viagra and Cialis as well as about 20% of all drugs that are prescribed "off-label".
Do I worry? Yes and no. For now, my current protocol is a MUCH better alternative to not being treated.
Don't really know where to begin, except just to tell you to do a little more research - but basically in a nutshell, test has a regulatory effect on the liver, higher levels of test suppress SHBG synthesis in the liver, hence high test, low SHBG. Most guys (you may be an exception) will find their SHBG fall to half of its pre-TRT value if their test is on the high side.
What has your personal experience been with either testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) or Hormone Replacement Therapy (HRT) as it relates to managing SHBG levels?
Ah, Chipster, how wrong you truly are.
Sorry if I come across as a “lurker” and just “chip” away [no pun intended] at much of the well-meaning crap often posted here. And you know, you’re right about one thing, most of guys who seem to post here, as contrasted to a number of the other boards, would be just as happy not worrying about potential side effects of the off-label scheduled drugs they are using, nor any consequences of using them for decade after decade.
Oh yes, ‘bout me. Have only been on testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) a short time, but not before having fully explored the gels and alternate therapies (AI, Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG), etc -monotherapy), only to realize that at my age, test injections were my only alternative.
I’m a great advocate of TRT!!
However, it concerns me that so many younger guys (a relative term for me, but anyone in their mid-30s or less) don’t give proper consideration to alternate therapies that might actually succeed for them. It also disappointing that so many of the bro’s who post here are so willing to swallow (both literally and figuratively) anything in their endless chase to manipulate substances (SHBG, E2) that are best controlled through less invasive means (if possible).
I think you and your Maximus company provide an invaluable service to the testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) community. I guess the best way to have shown my appreciation and respect for what you do is by counting myself as a happy client of yours! Dealing with you personally has been alot more enjoyable than giving you shit on a internet forum!
CHIP WADOWSKI
New member
OUCH. I THINK YOU MAY HAVE FRIED MY ASS ON THAT ONE.
THESE DAMN AVATARS AND SCREEN NAMES WILL GET YOU EVERY TIME. I'M NOT REALLY SURE WHAT TO SAY, ASSUMING THAT YOU ARE A SATISFIED CLIENT OF "TEAM MAXIMUS", OTHER THAN THE FACT THAT IT SEEMS I HAVE BEEN HUMBLED A BIT. I AM DEFINITELY NOT TO BIG OF A MAN TO EAT MY HUMBLE PIE WHEN/IF I DESERVE IT.
OVER TIME, WE HAVE DEALT WITH A FEW RECURRING "LURKERS" THAT JUST TRY TO CREATE SHIT FOR ALL OF US. I'M SORRY IF I DID, IN FACT, MIS LABEL YOU.
Would you mind sharing your protocol with us?
OUCH. I THINK YOU MAY HAVE FRIED MY ASS ON THAT ONE.
THESE DAMN AVATARS AND SCREEN NAMES WILL GET YOU EVERY TIME. I'M NOT REALLY SURE WHAT TO SAY, ASSUMING THAT YOU ARE A SATISFIED CLIENT OF "TEAM MAXIMUS", OTHER THAN THE FACT THAT IT SEEMS I HAVE BEEN HUMBLED A BIT. I AM DEFINITELY NOT TO BIG OF A MAN TO EAT MY HUMBLE PIE WHEN/IF I DESERVE IT.
OVER TIME, WE HAVE DEALT WITH A FEW RECURRING "LURKERS" THAT JUST TRY TO CREATE SHIT FOR ALL OF US. I'M SORRY IF I DID, IN FACT, MIS LABEL YOU.
Would happy to email you with my account history if you feel it necessary.
But your earlier point is well-taken.
Basically, I am not sure if this is the right forum for me anyway - it's obvious that many of the bro's here like to 'push the envelope' a bit much into the bodybuilding "side effect" that testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) easily affords. I think presenting contrary views has obviously not been well received.
Me, I'm just one of those older guys who really needs testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) having exhaustively explored all the alternatives. Hell, I'm more concerned with preserving bone mass than building new muscle!
No apologies please - just keep being that indefatigable bro you are
No secrets.
65 mg test every 84 hours +250IU Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) and if absolutely necessary, a tiny amount of Adex.
Rule 1 and 2: I don't "chase" SHBG or worry too much about E2. SHBG will go where it wants, E2 needs to be "managed" only at higher levels (can't give exact numbers, but something over 30-50 or a bit more). E2 is your "friend" and is critically important for bone function.
Rule 3: diet is everything.
Rule 4: if you don't feel good, consider the other two endocrine systems (adrenal, thyroid) before going off on tangents.
One last question, I guess. How much Windex do you go through in a month keeping that glass house of yours clean?
cjw2021
Pro Bodybuilder
Ecdysone please show me a study showing that high T suppresses SHBG before you argue with me. You've said several things here I don't agree with and I've never seen you post scientific evidence. If you can more power to you. I'm sure there are lots we agree on. But until you can post some evidence I think you are full of shit on that point based on my personal experience. My SHBG was 60 after a long time of therapy. I've been on testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) longer than you, as have most people here. And you come in here telling us how to do things. Please give your point but don't make shit up.
It is clear to me you don't understand how SHBG works. SHBG will elevate in the presence of xenoestrogens, which we are all exposed to. That is why so many people on testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) and off have high SHBG. If xenoestrogens could do it, natural estrogen could probably do it too.
I've spent over 40,000$ on medical bills just to come to the conclusion that low testosterone is causing 90% of the problems. And docs happily put me through that, because the 9 I saw were all ignorant of hormone therapy. The last one I had to actually drive to a different state to see because no one else knew their ass from a hole in the ground when it came to treating hormone problems. The only docs in general that have any idea of how to treat a patient are anti aging docs that understand the concept of preventative medicine. Clearly this was your fate too. So if you are dissing on everyone here for not exploring alternatives, perhaps you should redirect your hate to our inept medical system that does not treat the patient, but treats a lab result out of a book that had no commonality in the symptomatology of any diseased person. Then you say that we are irresponsible here and err on the side of steroid doses. Do you even know how much the average bodybuilder takes in testosterone, not even counting the countless other compounds? A lot more than a testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) dose of 200mg/wk.
So either you can address this question I have about your evidence of SHBG, or you can get butt hurt, call us roid heads, and leave. Either way I really don't care. Sure if your protocol is good you may not need to monitor estrogen much, but that is not to say that new patients should not be monitoring estrogen. You make these blanket statements and suggest we all operate the same way with the same bodies. There is one member here who cannot get his test level above 600 and he is on 300-400mg a week (he is not a maximus client). And you are wrong about SHBG just getting lower and lower by taking testosterone. I wouldn't be surprised if yours was above 20 since you have not checked it lately.
You said "E2 needs to be "managed" only at higher levels (can't give exact numbers, but something over 30-50 or a bit more)" You don't even know what high estrogen is, and you expect us to believe everything else you say lock stock and barrel?
Again, I'm not trying to call you out, but you called me out on the SHBG point, and I would appreciate you post some evidence since it clearly contradicts what I've been saying my last 1200 posts here and what I have personally experienced and seen in the testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) patients and their labs on this forum. It is not fair to just throw out these facts without evidence to people that have lives that depend on knowing things like this. If their SHBG is 60 and you tell them don't worry it'll automatically go down, that is a brave statement that contradicts everything I've seen and would surely leave the patient feeling like crap.
It is clear to me you don't understand how SHBG works. SHBG will elevate in the presence of xenoestrogens, which we are all exposed to. That is why so many people on testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) and off have high SHBG. If xenoestrogens could do it, natural estrogen could probably do it too.
I've spent over 40,000$ on medical bills just to come to the conclusion that low testosterone is causing 90% of the problems. And docs happily put me through that, because the 9 I saw were all ignorant of hormone therapy. The last one I had to actually drive to a different state to see because no one else knew their ass from a hole in the ground when it came to treating hormone problems. The only docs in general that have any idea of how to treat a patient are anti aging docs that understand the concept of preventative medicine. Clearly this was your fate too. So if you are dissing on everyone here for not exploring alternatives, perhaps you should redirect your hate to our inept medical system that does not treat the patient, but treats a lab result out of a book that had no commonality in the symptomatology of any diseased person. Then you say that we are irresponsible here and err on the side of steroid doses. Do you even know how much the average bodybuilder takes in testosterone, not even counting the countless other compounds? A lot more than a testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) dose of 200mg/wk.
So either you can address this question I have about your evidence of SHBG, or you can get butt hurt, call us roid heads, and leave. Either way I really don't care. Sure if your protocol is good you may not need to monitor estrogen much, but that is not to say that new patients should not be monitoring estrogen. You make these blanket statements and suggest we all operate the same way with the same bodies. There is one member here who cannot get his test level above 600 and he is on 300-400mg a week (he is not a maximus client). And you are wrong about SHBG just getting lower and lower by taking testosterone. I wouldn't be surprised if yours was above 20 since you have not checked it lately.
You said "E2 needs to be "managed" only at higher levels (can't give exact numbers, but something over 30-50 or a bit more)" You don't even know what high estrogen is, and you expect us to believe everything else you say lock stock and barrel?
Again, I'm not trying to call you out, but you called me out on the SHBG point, and I would appreciate you post some evidence since it clearly contradicts what I've been saying my last 1200 posts here and what I have personally experienced and seen in the testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) patients and their labs on this forum. It is not fair to just throw out these facts without evidence to people that have lives that depend on knowing things like this. If their SHBG is 60 and you tell them don't worry it'll automatically go down, that is a brave statement that contradicts everything I've seen and would surely leave the patient feeling like crap.
Last edited:
Nice post CJW..
I'm Not trying to be antagonistic, but, I would love to see this ecdysone start backing up his argumentative posts w/ some evidence. Also earlier in the thread ecdysone said most of us should be worried about taking all this other "stuff", when he's taking the same compounds as most of us? (AI & hcg)..
As far as 25mgs of stanz being something to be concerned about? I'd be more concerned about taking 1 tylenol a week
I'm Not trying to be antagonistic, but, I would love to see this ecdysone start backing up his argumentative posts w/ some evidence. Also earlier in the thread ecdysone said most of us should be worried about taking all this other "stuff", when he's taking the same compounds as most of us? (AI & hcg)..
As far as 25mgs of stanz being something to be concerned about? I'd be more concerned about taking 1 tylenol a week
Similar threads
