hey guys i'm doing some research on short cycles and i came across this over at SSB. i don't know if this has been posted here before, when i did a search for short cycles here i didn't see it. hope this helps any that are lookin into short cycles as i am. I'm not sure who wrote this article.also as a side note: whats your opinion or experience with short cycles such as these? pros/cons?
Steroids for health-SHORT CYCLES Explained
I would like to explain the benefits of short cycles for the recreational lifter, and that includes 95% of us I think. I would also like to clear up a few misconceptions in regard to short cycles in general.
WHAT MAKES A CYCLE SHORT
Short cycles are steroid cycles that do not exceed 4 weeks ,with 2-3 weeks "on" preferred.
WHY DO SHORT CYCLES
The main reason is to limit the negative health impact that steroids DO have on users.
For those of you that don't get lab work done while on steroids I would have you know that steroid use causes a very bad shift in the lipid profile. HDL(good cholesterol) which acts like a sticky sweeping broom to sweep up bad LDL (bad cholesterol) and prevent plaque build up on atery walls, goes EXTREMELY LOW in, dare I say, ALL MEN. Not only this but LDL levels usually climb and this is combo is not good.
Short cycles still cause a crappy lipid shift but not to the same degree as the long cycle. Also less time "On" means less time for potential aterial plaque build up.
After my last long cycle of 8 weeks I had some blood work done and my doc HAD A COW as my hdl to total cholesterol ratio was extremely poor.
There isn't a damn thing you can do to significantly avoid this....you can take niacin , flax oil , do cardio and have a pefect diet low in saturated fat and you will STILL get a very shitty lipid profile.
So a very bad lipid profile with high ldl and rock bottom hdl is a SIGNIFICANT risk factor for aterial plaque build up and heart disease. As a side....anyone that thinks "Arny" only got his aortic valve done doesn't have a clue. I know for a fact that he had a coronary bypass as I have worked with members of the heart team that did his operation.
True there are other risk factors for heart disease but this is a big one and well documented as well.
HEW!!! Next ...short cycles limit other side effects like hair loss, acne, high Blood pressure and resulting kidney stress, testicular shrinkage and poor HPTA rebound.
Also short cycles are a heck of a lot easier on the old liver especially if 17aa orals are used....got to love d-bol he he he !
WHAT SHORT CYCLES ARE NOT
Short cycles will not result in bigger gains. Short cycles will not allow one to be competive in todays national level competitions. Short cycles will not give you 30 pounds of bulk at one time.
WHAT SHORT CYCLES CAN DO
Short cycles can give you decent gains that are FAR better than what you could attain to as a natural. Gains of 10 pounds are not infrequently kept form a short cycle with the novice or those that are not at least very close to their natural maximum weight.
Short cycles will allow a much quicker HPTA recovery than a long cycle and this allows one to kepp a higher percentage of ones gains. In fact full testosterone rebound often happens in but a week. Gains often continue in the weeks after the short cycle is over simply because ones natural test production often jumps a little higher than normal becuase the pituitary really hammers out the LH and the testes have not shunk.
My natural test production is quite good for a man of 40, at 550. I tested my test level a week after I stopped a 14 day cycle and it had rebonded to 650 from the immediate pre cycle 550. On day 15 it was down to 54!
How many of you bro's have experience gains AFTER coming off a 8 weeker...not a one I would say.
Lets face it bro's if you gain 25 -30 pouns of bulk in a long cycle you sure the hell aren't going to be able to hang onto more than 15 of those pounds over the next 6 months unless you were WAY WAY under your potential to begin with.
BEFORE DOING SHORT CYCLES.....
learn how to train and gain WITHOUT steroids. This is critical! IF one knows how to train without gear then adding a small amount of gear over a short period of time can result in great gains.
Trouble is almost nobody knows how to gain without steroids so they do the large doses over long periods of time to compensate for their chronic over training and poor training, sleeping habits.
ORIGIN OF SHORT CYCLES AND VARIATIONS
Well I am sure that there have always been men that used short cycles but the first one that I know of that actually spoke up on the matter was NELSON MONTANA, formerly of T-MAG.
NELSON MONTANA advocated, and still does advocate, cycles of 3 weeks in length. Modest doses are used of 1000mg per week TOTAL or less. Injectables and orals are used. Usually the injectable is in a long acting ester and not injected once per week but several times per week in smaller doses as he belives this is better for anabolism. Nelsons favorite steroid is PRIMO but he does like sust, d-bol, Winstrol (winny) and anavar. He will not use or recommend vet steroids like EQ or tren. He does not recommend nandrolone.
Nelson believes three weeks will offers the best trade off between gains and sides. He thinks two weeks "on" is not quite enough time "on"
His favorite combo's are sust/d-bol or primo/anavar.
Here is an example of Nelsons three weeker.
WEEK ONE
DAY ONE Sustanon (sust) 250mg, day 3 primo 100mg, day 5 primo 100mg, day 7 primo 100mg. 25 of d-bol in divided doses per day.
WEEK TWO
Test cyp or enanthate 100mg, day 10 primo 100mg and day 12 primo 100mg, day 14 primo 100mg. 25 of Winstrol (winny) per day
WEEK THREE
day 16 primo 100, day 18 primo 100, day 20 primo 100 and day 22 primo 100 and also anavar 25 per day
Notice how the cycle uses weaker orals as the weeks go on and the non aromatizable and weker primo . This is to limit inhibition to some degree AND also to limit water gain for good post cycle lean tissue realization
WEEK FOUR ...OPTIONAL
25 of proviron for 5 days and only in the am. This is to help with sex drive, prevent estrogen back lash and act as a mild form of a taper. 25 mg only done in the am is not very inhibitory. I like its ability to ward off estrogen rebound post cycle.
Nelson does not believe that Clomid is necessary after his cycles and may actually cause harm in some men.
The above is a complicated cycle that is not cheap but Nelson thinks it is the ultimate short cycle. Similar but cheaper short cycle s can be based on the MONTANA METHOD.
IN COMES BILL ROBERTS!!!
Now Bill Roberts has been preaching short cycles for some time know, but not as long as Nelson. He says that he was taught his method but a Greek physicain that trains athletes in Europe. It is strange that he never even mentions Nelson and his method and this tells me that he may have stolen the idea from Nelson in the first place.
Anyway Roberts recommends higher doses of strickly short acting injectables and powerful orals. Front loading injectables is recommended.
Roberts is a big believer in Clomid post cycle. He also believes in using Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) if cycles are long or less than 4 weeks are taken between repeated two week cycles ,so as to prevent testicular shrinkage and the resulting poor HPTA recovery.
Roberts believes that after two weeks the pituitary becomes inhibited and not just the testes and hypothalamus and thus he recommends 14 days "on" as the limit IF you are striving for very rapid HPTA recovery.
I have used the "Roberts" cycles with good success as have many others including a few of my close friends but I plan on trying Nelsons method soon.
ROBERTS EXAMPLES
Day one, tren front loaded at 150mg and then tren 75 mg per day through day 12.
Dbol 50 mg per day in divided doses through day 14.
Clomid therapy starting day 15 and for 4 weeks or three weeks if Clomid was used as an anti estrogen during the "on" weeks. He will also use estrogen inhibitors if aromatization is expected to be high.
Second example for the larger man...
Test prop 300mg on day one and then 100-150mg per day for 11 days. Tren 150mg per day on day one and then 50-75 per day for 12 days, winstrol 50 mg per day for 14 days.
Other combo's include Tren/winny., test/d-bol winny., Tren/winny /d-bol....etc etc..
Notice that no long acting injectable is used. This is done to allow for a very rapid post cycle elimination of androgens so as to prevent additional lengthening of the cycle. This is Key point in the Roberts two weeker because he believes that any time "on" past two weeks will not allow for the most rapid HPTA recovery. He goes so far as to say that recovery after three week "on" is not especially quicker than recover after 8 weeks "on"
Roberts sites many examples of 7-10 plus pounds kept from his two weekers.
The man that is above his natural max weight (ie: 5'9-10 " and a leanish 190) cannot expect to gains 10 pounds in two weeks but 5 pounds in not uncommon.
NOTE>>> Both Roberts and Montana recommend at least 4 weeks off between these cycles. Roberts does say that two weeks off can be okay, but if repeated two weekers are done then Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) should be used during the cycle at 500iu's per day to prevent testicular shrinkage over the months.
So try short cycles if you are really concerned about your health and want to minimize the risks of steroid use, yet still wish to use steroids , and if you want to keep a higher percentage of your gains from a cycle.
Steroids for health-SHORT CYCLES Explained
I would like to explain the benefits of short cycles for the recreational lifter, and that includes 95% of us I think. I would also like to clear up a few misconceptions in regard to short cycles in general.
WHAT MAKES A CYCLE SHORT
Short cycles are steroid cycles that do not exceed 4 weeks ,with 2-3 weeks "on" preferred.
WHY DO SHORT CYCLES
The main reason is to limit the negative health impact that steroids DO have on users.
For those of you that don't get lab work done while on steroids I would have you know that steroid use causes a very bad shift in the lipid profile. HDL(good cholesterol) which acts like a sticky sweeping broom to sweep up bad LDL (bad cholesterol) and prevent plaque build up on atery walls, goes EXTREMELY LOW in, dare I say, ALL MEN. Not only this but LDL levels usually climb and this is combo is not good.
Short cycles still cause a crappy lipid shift but not to the same degree as the long cycle. Also less time "On" means less time for potential aterial plaque build up.
After my last long cycle of 8 weeks I had some blood work done and my doc HAD A COW as my hdl to total cholesterol ratio was extremely poor.
There isn't a damn thing you can do to significantly avoid this....you can take niacin , flax oil , do cardio and have a pefect diet low in saturated fat and you will STILL get a very shitty lipid profile.
So a very bad lipid profile with high ldl and rock bottom hdl is a SIGNIFICANT risk factor for aterial plaque build up and heart disease. As a side....anyone that thinks "Arny" only got his aortic valve done doesn't have a clue. I know for a fact that he had a coronary bypass as I have worked with members of the heart team that did his operation.
True there are other risk factors for heart disease but this is a big one and well documented as well.
HEW!!! Next ...short cycles limit other side effects like hair loss, acne, high Blood pressure and resulting kidney stress, testicular shrinkage and poor HPTA rebound.
Also short cycles are a heck of a lot easier on the old liver especially if 17aa orals are used....got to love d-bol he he he !
WHAT SHORT CYCLES ARE NOT
Short cycles will not result in bigger gains. Short cycles will not allow one to be competive in todays national level competitions. Short cycles will not give you 30 pounds of bulk at one time.
WHAT SHORT CYCLES CAN DO
Short cycles can give you decent gains that are FAR better than what you could attain to as a natural. Gains of 10 pounds are not infrequently kept form a short cycle with the novice or those that are not at least very close to their natural maximum weight.
Short cycles will allow a much quicker HPTA recovery than a long cycle and this allows one to kepp a higher percentage of ones gains. In fact full testosterone rebound often happens in but a week. Gains often continue in the weeks after the short cycle is over simply because ones natural test production often jumps a little higher than normal becuase the pituitary really hammers out the LH and the testes have not shunk.
My natural test production is quite good for a man of 40, at 550. I tested my test level a week after I stopped a 14 day cycle and it had rebonded to 650 from the immediate pre cycle 550. On day 15 it was down to 54!
How many of you bro's have experience gains AFTER coming off a 8 weeker...not a one I would say.
Lets face it bro's if you gain 25 -30 pouns of bulk in a long cycle you sure the hell aren't going to be able to hang onto more than 15 of those pounds over the next 6 months unless you were WAY WAY under your potential to begin with.
BEFORE DOING SHORT CYCLES.....
learn how to train and gain WITHOUT steroids. This is critical! IF one knows how to train without gear then adding a small amount of gear over a short period of time can result in great gains.
Trouble is almost nobody knows how to gain without steroids so they do the large doses over long periods of time to compensate for their chronic over training and poor training, sleeping habits.
ORIGIN OF SHORT CYCLES AND VARIATIONS
Well I am sure that there have always been men that used short cycles but the first one that I know of that actually spoke up on the matter was NELSON MONTANA, formerly of T-MAG.
NELSON MONTANA advocated, and still does advocate, cycles of 3 weeks in length. Modest doses are used of 1000mg per week TOTAL or less. Injectables and orals are used. Usually the injectable is in a long acting ester and not injected once per week but several times per week in smaller doses as he belives this is better for anabolism. Nelsons favorite steroid is PRIMO but he does like sust, d-bol, Winstrol (winny) and anavar. He will not use or recommend vet steroids like EQ or tren. He does not recommend nandrolone.
Nelson believes three weeks will offers the best trade off between gains and sides. He thinks two weeks "on" is not quite enough time "on"
His favorite combo's are sust/d-bol or primo/anavar.
Here is an example of Nelsons three weeker.
WEEK ONE
DAY ONE Sustanon (sust) 250mg, day 3 primo 100mg, day 5 primo 100mg, day 7 primo 100mg. 25 of d-bol in divided doses per day.
WEEK TWO
Test cyp or enanthate 100mg, day 10 primo 100mg and day 12 primo 100mg, day 14 primo 100mg. 25 of Winstrol (winny) per day
WEEK THREE
day 16 primo 100, day 18 primo 100, day 20 primo 100 and day 22 primo 100 and also anavar 25 per day
Notice how the cycle uses weaker orals as the weeks go on and the non aromatizable and weker primo . This is to limit inhibition to some degree AND also to limit water gain for good post cycle lean tissue realization
WEEK FOUR ...OPTIONAL
25 of proviron for 5 days and only in the am. This is to help with sex drive, prevent estrogen back lash and act as a mild form of a taper. 25 mg only done in the am is not very inhibitory. I like its ability to ward off estrogen rebound post cycle.
Nelson does not believe that Clomid is necessary after his cycles and may actually cause harm in some men.
The above is a complicated cycle that is not cheap but Nelson thinks it is the ultimate short cycle. Similar but cheaper short cycle s can be based on the MONTANA METHOD.
IN COMES BILL ROBERTS!!!
Now Bill Roberts has been preaching short cycles for some time know, but not as long as Nelson. He says that he was taught his method but a Greek physicain that trains athletes in Europe. It is strange that he never even mentions Nelson and his method and this tells me that he may have stolen the idea from Nelson in the first place.
Anyway Roberts recommends higher doses of strickly short acting injectables and powerful orals. Front loading injectables is recommended.
Roberts is a big believer in Clomid post cycle. He also believes in using Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) if cycles are long or less than 4 weeks are taken between repeated two week cycles ,so as to prevent testicular shrinkage and the resulting poor HPTA recovery.
Roberts believes that after two weeks the pituitary becomes inhibited and not just the testes and hypothalamus and thus he recommends 14 days "on" as the limit IF you are striving for very rapid HPTA recovery.
I have used the "Roberts" cycles with good success as have many others including a few of my close friends but I plan on trying Nelsons method soon.
ROBERTS EXAMPLES
Day one, tren front loaded at 150mg and then tren 75 mg per day through day 12.
Dbol 50 mg per day in divided doses through day 14.
Clomid therapy starting day 15 and for 4 weeks or three weeks if Clomid was used as an anti estrogen during the "on" weeks. He will also use estrogen inhibitors if aromatization is expected to be high.
Second example for the larger man...
Test prop 300mg on day one and then 100-150mg per day for 11 days. Tren 150mg per day on day one and then 50-75 per day for 12 days, winstrol 50 mg per day for 14 days.
Other combo's include Tren/winny., test/d-bol winny., Tren/winny /d-bol....etc etc..
Notice that no long acting injectable is used. This is done to allow for a very rapid post cycle elimination of androgens so as to prevent additional lengthening of the cycle. This is Key point in the Roberts two weeker because he believes that any time "on" past two weeks will not allow for the most rapid HPTA recovery. He goes so far as to say that recovery after three week "on" is not especially quicker than recover after 8 weeks "on"
Roberts sites many examples of 7-10 plus pounds kept from his two weekers.
The man that is above his natural max weight (ie: 5'9-10 " and a leanish 190) cannot expect to gains 10 pounds in two weeks but 5 pounds in not uncommon.
NOTE>>> Both Roberts and Montana recommend at least 4 weeks off between these cycles. Roberts does say that two weeks off can be okay, but if repeated two weekers are done then Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) should be used during the cycle at 500iu's per day to prevent testicular shrinkage over the months.
So try short cycles if you are really concerned about your health and want to minimize the risks of steroid use, yet still wish to use steroids , and if you want to keep a higher percentage of your gains from a cycle.
