SHORT CYCLES - VET opinions please

Test Rage

Test Rage

Skinny Mon
Hey guys, this is my first post and im going to get straight to business. not a ton of personal experience here but I have solid understanding of the drugs. Just looking for some experienced opinions from some vets. I am young. However, do not look down on me for being young. I have made up my mind and am going to air on the side of caution through all of this. I am a huge fan of short cycles. I really appreciate the work and analysis of Bill Roberts. I feel like the short cycles are healthier and with discipline you can achieve similar results over time. I am not trying to compete ever. I just want to enhance my image and strength. I was an all american baseball athlete a short time ago in high school (at 155 lbs) but that all came crashing down with injury. I have recovered and would possibly like to try to compete in a few years. I would like to take a moment to paint a picture of myself to give you guys some context on my case. You guys are going to think im crazy.

22 years of age
5'9''
163 lbs
Torso is slightly on longer end of average
Legs are on slightly shorter end of average
I do not have measurements but I can tell you I am narrow (obviously)
Thighs are good thickness.
My glutes are well developed.
lower quads down is all pretty small.
shoulders and back are not wide but muscular.
arms are very strong and developed.
chest is strong.
flexible athlete.
Fast athlete.
Very agile athlete.
not the best jumper tho. (can grab the rim but thats it)
9-10 percent bodyfat
I cum minimum of two times per day with my own natural chemical balance.

I struggled with acne bad only on my face from ages 17-20.
Very high strung also borderline aggressive individual, short temper. Also very comical. Emotional/passionate. Determined. Basically, I could be considered an idiot.

Also, Im sorry too brag and i may be wrong but im a very strong 163lbs.

For some reason my tiny legs can squat 405 3 times. I can bench 225. Father and mother are both powerful people. Let me assure you these are legit numbers.

full head of hair, getting close to a full beard (still few patches)
no hair on my body whatsoever (possibly because of my native american genes)

Native american, french, irish, lebanese, german

I want to cycle two weeks at a time in order to net about 3-5 lbs lean mass per cycle.

I may end up extending to a few eight week cycles towards the end of 2014.

My concerns are avoiding acne, avoiding any significant lipid shift or liver stress whatsoever. and avoiding hpta shutdown on my two week cycles.

Hoping to get in 8 cycles this year to end the year at apx- 185 lbs at 9-10% BF while maintaining complete flexibility.

List of Chemicals that I believe I will settle on rotating in some fashion:

AAS: Test Prop, NPP, Mast Prop, Tren Ace, Dbol, Tbol, Proviron.

AI: Aromasin. I want to pick up another to have just in case I have issues with dosing the aromasin and need something to fall back on. DEX or LETRO?

SERMS: Torem. I do not want to use Nolva or Clomid. I need my eyes 100% perfect and am concerned about the ocular toxicity of clomid. Also, from what Ive read, ppl that have actually tried Torem feel better and feel like recovery is quicker. Ralox also is of interest strictly for its superior ability to ward off gyno.

**As a gyno preventative measure should I make sure I have either Letro or Ralox on hand? I would like to have two serms and two AI's so that I can experiment with my response over the course of a few of my short cycles. Basically I have given my first selection for both my SERM and AI. I just want to get suggestions on my second of each.

Dopamine Agonist:

Either Prami or Caber. Im leaning towards prami for its GH stimulating effects. Will dose right before bed.

On Cycle Therapy:

HCG 250iu twice weekly.
HMG 75iu eod last 5 days of cycle
Also going to dose Naltrexone on the longer cycles.
Also considering dosing Triptorelin on 8 week cycles first three days of pct at 10mcg ed.

**balls will be full as shit. Hypothalamus will be firing still, Pituitary will be catching and firing aswell. Will make for brief Torem PCT and fast full recovery.

Growth Hormone and related factors:

CJC 1295 W/o DAC
Ipamorelin
cycle GHRP 6 for appetite increases

Extra Items:

Melanontan II

IPT-141

DSIP

Viagra

Cialis

Diet: My diet is already spot on. High protein high carb diet moderate fat. Consume at least 4k every day. Also I make sure I get at least one really green smoothy per day in my vitamix. This is my pride and joy. I take a multi, vit D, occasional B12 shot, and fish oil.

Im still developing my training program. It is low volume. High weight. No longer that an hour in the gym approach.

I will update with actual sample cycles and before photos.

Also, I am planning on trying brand Optimum Pharma. This will be my first online experience. Im concerned about quality and getting screwed over. Eventually I will develop a powder source but not yet. Does anyone have an opinion on Optimum Pharma? I havent ordered yet but would like to confirm my communication with them is legit as I have been emailing them. If someone is happy to PM then awsome. If not then I understand..this is my first post on here. Looking forward to getting to know you guys.

I really just wanted to get some THOUGHTFUL responses to my ideas. I know it is not a conventional approach. I am going to be safe and learn what I need. I just want to accelerate my development to my own natural peak. Obviously I did not include dosage. Im still working on exact dosing. I know this could be argued to be more important than the drugs themselves. I am working on it and will post a few sample cycles that I have in mind as well as a few pics of me before I begin.

Thanks for reading!

Thanks in advance for your input!
 
I want to cycle two weeks at a time in order to net about 3-5 lbs lean mass per cycle.

I may end up extending to a few eight week cycles towards the end of 2014
Click to expand...

^^ what does that mean..? U want to cycle two weeks at a time? With the longest being 8 weeks?
What!?
Maybe I'm misunderstanding u.. But u can't cycle a couple weeks at a time,, your only gonna gain the negatives.
Plan a basic starter one time 12-14 week test based cycle and leave it at that to start

Please explain what u mean "cycle two weeks at a time"
 
I stopped reading it. You got the wrong idea. To reference a sport your familiar with, your way out in left field son! U have a lot of high hopes and big wishes but not a lot of education on what your about to do. More is not better! If u think your going to net 5 lbs of muscle with a 2 week cycle well your wrong! Go read the stickys. I can't believe this was even posted...
 
Wow that is quite a post. My A.D.D prevents me from reading more than six lines of text at a time, but I did read the salient parts (probably) I spent my early 20's at your weight, albeit even taller but couldn't figure out why I couldn't "bulk up". Answer: not enough food. Hitting the gym 4-6 times a week, eating 4,500-6k calories a day I went from 160-190 in two years, 190-205 in another eighteen months & built a decent foundation. If you jump on gear at that weight, provided you eat enough you'll balloon to 180-190 in six months and herniate a disc, tear your rotator cuff or worse. And you won't be lean & mean, you'll be a bloofy, gyno-prone acne disaster. I'm not shitting on you for being young, by the way, more for being under-weight and thinking gear will fit your food intake problem.

Also, forget "not shutting down" your HTPA, it starts to happen immediately when you inject exogenous hormones. I've read a bit about short cycles, I don't think they're a bad idea per sey but you're expecting a lot / too much from them.
 
It's like a big contradiction! U say your never going to compete but then u go on to say that you plan to compete in a few years.

As long as ectomom keeps silent today I think u might have the best one of the day! Hahaha
 
Like everyone else said, two weeks isn't long enough to do anything except get some sides and shut you down, maybe gain some water weight, even with short esters. I have done short cycles myself(by short I mean 6-8 weeks, not 2), and got fairly good results, and have seen them used very effectively by other people. That being said, I would not do any again for a while, because to take full advantage of them you need to know how to manipulate every aspect of your diet and training and AAS, and know how your body responds exactly to everything. For example, the dosage of everything will be higher than a 12 week cycle, how much higher, I have no idea, you need to know how you respond to different doses and manipulate it from there. You need to be able to manipulate your diet constantly, before during and after the cycle. And by this I don't mean eating a clean 4k calories with high protein, you need to know how your body reacts to different conditions in your diet whether it be high or low carbs or fat or whatever. Honestly this approach can be used very effectively, but it is way to advanced for most people, myself included, and frankly it's a waste of time for most people. And like other people have said you will shut yourself down as soon as you inject, the theory behind short cycles isn't to avoid shutdown, but to be shutdown for less time and therefore bound back quicker. But I don't know if it's any better to constantly be shutting down and restarting every 6 weeks, maybe someone smarter than myself can weigh in on that part.
 
Roush, sounds reasonable. however, have you ever read anything with regards to short cycling or attempted? Read any of Bill Roberts work?
 
tbonexl said:
It's like a big contradiction! U say your never going to compete but then u go on to say that you plan to compete in a few years.

As long as ectomom keeps silent today I think u might have the best one of the day! Hahaha
Click to expand...

I meant not going to compete on stage. I am a high level ball player. would like to continue to try to play.
 
Wow - very long and detailed write up. Props to your for doing so, as most people barely provide their age let alone any other info regarding themselves & cycling. BUT still, as everyone else has said..2 week cycles are a joke and waste of everyones time.
 
Dickey said:
Like everyone else said, two weeks isn't long enough to do anything except get some sides and shut you down, maybe gain some water weight, even with short esters. I have done short cycles myself(by short I mean 6-8 weeks, not 2), and got fairly good results, and have seen them used very effectively by other people. That being said, I would not do any again for a while, because to take full advantage of them you need to know how to manipulate every aspect of your diet and training and AAS, and know how your body responds exactly to everything. For example, the dosage of everything will be higher than a 12 week cycle, how much higher, I have no idea, you need to know how you respond to different doses and manipulate it from there. You need to be able to manipulate your diet constantly, before during and after the cycle. And by this I don't mean eating a clean 4k calories with high protein, you need to know how your body reacts to different conditions in your diet whether it be high or low carbs or fat or whatever. Honestly this approach can be used very effectively, but it is way to advanced for most people, myself included, and frankly it's a waste of time for most people. And like other people have said you will shut yourself down as soon as you inject, the theory behind short cycles isn't to avoid shutdown, but to be shutdown for less time and therefore bound back quicker. But I don't know if it's any better to constantly be shutting down and restarting every 6 weeks, maybe someone smarter than myself can weigh in on that part.
Click to expand...

Thanks for your thoughts. I believe i meant to express my desire for the extremely quick recovery. I am an outside the box thinker. I have not begun anything yet. I just always challenge convention. It is my method of learning and works well. Some people do not understand this and are disrespectful. Oh well, anyways.. Lets say that that i only keep two lbs of gains from each cycle. And im on for 4 and a half months of the year. That is about 15-20 lbs in the next year. That would put me at 180 lbs. From my knowledge alot of guys dont start experiencing alot of the mentioned sides til further into the cycle when aromitization becomes more prevalent.
 
KingPen said:
Wow - very long and detailed write up. Props to your for doing so, as most people barely provide their age let alone any other info regarding themselves & cycling. BUT still, as everyone else has said..2 week cycles are a joke and waste of everyones time.
Click to expand...

Thanks KingPen. I really appreciate it. Just curious. have you read any of Roberts write ups? he seems to be very knowledgeable. If you can gain real muscle in 8 or ten weeks time, with solid dosing during two weeks do you think its not possible to keep a couple pounds. And be able to repeat this because the Hpta is still veryy ready to respond and recover.
 
Pro body builders are getting way bigger and freakier than they were in years past.. AAS use and trends change (which may be one factor, as well as insulin, nutrition, etc.)..
I'm not really up on the trends (old school test deca cycles are best for me imo), but one of the trends now is LONG cycles, running for 14-20 weeks followed by 'cruising' low doses of testosterone after that. Guys do this because going ON/OFF and ON/OFF and running all this Pct and going through the emotions of being off after being on etc.. is a lot to take.
Long cycles followed by cruising doses seems to be having good results both physically and emotionally for a lot of guys, and perhaps why it is a popular trend. This is the exact opposite of what your proposing with short cycles, lots of pct and then back to short cycles. .you'll be up an down and all over the map.
Personally I'd rather be on a long cycle and cruise then go through all the crap involved with short burst and short cycles. But everyone is different.
 
Test Rage said:
Thanks for your thoughts. I believe i meant to express my desire for the extremely quick recovery. I am an outside the box thinker. I have not begun anything yet. I just always challenge convention. It is my method of learning and works well. Some people do not understand this and are disrespectful. Oh well, anyways.. Lets say that that i only keep two lbs of gains from each cycle. And im on for 4 and a half months of the year. That is about 15-20 lbs in the next year. That would put me at 180 lbs. From my knowledge alot of guys dont start experiencing alot of the mentioned sides til further into the cycle when aromitization becomes more prevalent.
Click to expand...

Heads up, you aren't a special snowflake. Thinking out of the box is fine, but people who's experience is longer than your lifetime have a better handle on whats up than you do. There's a reason most people do things one way; tried and true GENERALLY works best. You gain 15-20 pounds on a proper Test-E cycle, and it only takes twelve to fourteen weeks.

The kicker is, you don't even need gear. You're SCRAWNY at 160lbs; put your steroid budget towards some real food and a proper diet plan, which you'd need anyways and watch what happens.
 
clman8585 said:
How do you know so much but so little at the same time.
Click to expand...

Progress is only made by challenging convention. That is my only purpose for this write up. Is it not possible to gain and keep a few pounds over the course of two weeks. Even two or three lbs. Prop ester drugs have been shown to be active in the body within a day of injection. Also, Hpta recovery is extremely easy. Obviously there isnt a ton of proof here. But i plan on proving that small steady gains can be made. If I am dead wrong, I will happily admit it and give every hater a high five. :)
 
snowpatrol123 said:
Heads up, you aren't a special snowflake. Thinking out of the box is fine, but people who's experience is longer than your lifetime have a better handle on whats up than you do. There's a reason most people do things one way; tried and true GENERALLY works best. You gain 15-20 pounds on a proper Test-E cycle, and it only takes twelve to fourteen weeks.

The kicker is, you don't even need gear. You're SCRAWNY at 160lbs; put your steroid budget towards some real food and a proper diet plan, which you'd need anyways and watch what happens.
Click to expand...

What is your opinion of using AAS to accelerate the time to get closer to natural peak condition. Not everyone is a freakin mesomorph. I honestly probably eat 5 large meals a day. People in my life always comment on the size and frequency of my meals. I am eating man. Also could you give me some examples of harm that could be done by two week cycles? Or in your opinion is it just a waste of money? I am on the hyper side, thyroid is a little over active. Thats why i believe I will blow up on 19nors because they will put the breaks on my own t3 output.
 
clman8585 said:
Yea but what is the point of all this..
Click to expand...

To see what the consensus is with short cycles on this here forum.. as well stimulate some conversation that I can learn from. Why else do people create threads? Especially Rookies like me.. ??
 
Roush said:
Pro body builders are getting way bigger and freakier than they were in years past.. AAS use and trends change (which may be one factor, as well as insulin, nutrition, etc.)..
I'm not really up on the trends (old school test deca cycles are best for me imo), but one of the trends now is LONG cycles, running for 14-20 weeks followed by 'cruising' low doses of testosterone after that. Guys do this because going ON/OFF and ON/OFF and running all this Pct and going through the emotions of being off after being on etc.. is a lot to take.
Long cycles followed by cruising doses seems to be having good results both physically and emotionally for a lot of guys, and perhaps why it is a popular trend. This is the exact opposite of what your proposing with short cycles, lots of pct and then back to short cycles. .you'll be up an down and all over the map.
Personally I'd rather be on a long cycle and cruise then go through all the crap involved with short burst and short cycles. But everyone is different.
Click to expand...

cruising and blasting sounds sick man. I would probably attempt that if I was trying to compete and actual bodybuilding was my life. I am just a different athlete. Not a bodybuilder. I mean obviously my short cycle ideas are not dangerous. You are just challenging the efficacy of them. And also that it is not useful investment of resources?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top