SHORT CYCLES - VET opinions please

Test Rage said:
To see what the consensus is with short cycles on this here forum.. as well stimulate some conversation that I can learn from. Why else do people create threads? Especially Rookies like me.. ??
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They are worthless. There's your answer.
 
OP, it's tough to evaluate your questions since you didn't include information about your relationship with your parents or your family medical history. LOL...what a bunch of nonsense.
 
Test Rage said:
cruising and blasting sounds sick man. I would probably attempt that if I was trying to compete and actual bodybuilding was my life. I am just a different athlete. Not a bodybuilder. I mean obviously my short cycle ideas are not dangerous. You are just challenging the efficacy of them. And also that it is not useful investment of resources?
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In your original post you said you were looking to do "8 cycles in one year"--
OK, so your not trying to be a body builder.. why 8 cycles in a year?
Prob cause you think that you can put on all this muscle and get where you want in a short period of time.. Your trying to rush it all at once with all these short cycle.
Long and steady wins the race.
 
Roush said:
In your original post you said you were looking to do "8 cycles in one year"--
OK, so your not trying to be a body builder.. why 8 cycles in a year?
Prob cause you think that you can put on all this muscle and get where you want in a short period of time.. Your trying to rush it all at once with all these short cycle.
Long and steady wins the race.
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I respect your point. Thank you sir
 
snowpatrol123 said:
The kicker is, you don't even need gear. You're SCRAWNY at 160lbs; put your steroid budget towards some real food and a proper diet plan, which you'd need anyways and watch what happens.
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This is exactly what was thinking as well Test, and none of us are trying to be assholes by saying this, because most of us have been there, but unless you have some sort of wasting disease there's no reason you can't gain more weight just with your diet.

Test Rage said:
Thanks for your thoughts. I believe i meant to express my desire for the extremely quick recovery. I am an outside the box thinker. I have not begun anything yet. I just always challenge convention. It is my method of learning and works well. Some people do not understand this and are disrespectful. Oh well, anyways.. Lets say that that i only keep two lbs of gains from each cycle. And im on for 4 and a half months of the year. That is about 15-20 lbs in the next year. That would put me at 180 lbs. From my knowledge alot of guys dont start experiencing alot of the mentioned sides til further into the cycle when aromitization becomes more prevalent.
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I do see the merit in short cycles, the slow steady gains are an idea that I really like, but like I said before, you need to know exactly what you are doing in terms of managing everything. Like I said I have done short cycles, and yes you will probably gain weight in 2 weeks but will all of it be lean muscle, probably not. Everyone reacts to compounds differently, and until you know how you will react to different compounds you can't just jump into a cycle with multiple compounds used interchangeably based on Mr. Roberts writing and expect to get great results. Think of it this way, these people are all Bill Roberts clients, and he bases the cycles, nutrition and training around his clients, he isn't going to go "Hey Jim, nice to meet you, here's your steroids." High level trainers have seen how different things work for different types of people and can make a generalization, and chances are a lot of these people have some experience using AAS themselves. I'm not saying there is no merit behind his theory, I'm just saying it is by no means a theory you can implement right out of the gate and get the best results, especially doing it by yourself based on someone's writings.
 
Test Rage said:
Progress is only made by challenging convention. That is my only purpose for this write up. Is it not possible to gain and keep a few pounds over the course of two weeks. Even two or three lbs. Prop ester drugs have been shown to be active in the body within a day of injection. Also, Hpta recovery is extremely easy. Obviously there isnt a ton of proof here. But i plan on proving that small steady gains can be made. If I am dead wrong, I will happily admit it and give every hater a high five. :)
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I can go to a buffet and gain 5+ lbs in a couple hours. Does it mean that its 5 lbs of muscle? Will I keep those gains? If I go to the buffet once a week will i gain 20 lbs of muscle in a month?

Are u starting to see how stupid this is?
 
Dickey said:
This is exactly what was thinking as well Test, and none of us are trying to be assholes by saying this, because most of us have been there, but unless you have some sort of wasting disease there's no reason you can't gain more weight just with your diet.


I do see the merit in short cycles, the slow steady gains are an idea that I really like, but like I said before, you need to know exactly what you are doing in terms of managing everything. Like I said I have done short cycles, and yes you will probably gain weight in 2 weeks but will all of it be lean muscle, probably not. Everyone reacts to compounds differently, and until you know how you will react to different compounds you can't just jump into a cycle with multiple compounds used interchangeably based on Mr. Roberts writing and expect to get great results. Think of it this way, these people are all Bill Roberts clients, and he bases the cycles, nutrition and training around his clients, he isn't going to go "Hey Jim, nice to meet you, here's your steroids." High level trainers have seen how different things work for different types of people and can make a generalization, and chances are a lot of these people have some experience using AAS themselves. I'm not saying there is no merit behind his theory, I'm just saying it is by no means a theory you can implement right out of the gate and get the best results, especially doing it by yourself based on someone's writings.
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Right on man. That is some feedback that I can really do something with. Thanks. Im still gathering knowledge and haven't fixed my mind on anything yet/ even purchased any AAS. I wont rule out the possibility of short cycles. I would like to find a coach. I don't have any real connections. I also agree that I need to prove that I can gain weight before AAS. That way I know I have at least an effective diet and training protocol. Because if i havent gained any weight then there is something wrong with what im doing. It is hard however for me to gain weight and I have worked hard naturally. I do believe my thyroid is on the hyper side. But nonetheless I need to get everything straight and gain alot more knowledge before I actually settle and make my cycle choices. What is your opinion on me beginning AAS after I prove my ability to myself to gain weight with my diet and workout protocol. Is it then acceptable to use AAS to accelerate yourself to your natural peak physique? Also do you believe there are any inherent risks in running two week cycles? If not then why not give it a try? I think most of what ppl have been trying to tell me is it is not the most efficient way to cycle. So they say its a COMPLETE waste. And not only that but Im a moron if believe I will get any results. some people clearly have not tried it because they do not vouch for the rapid recovery possibilities. I plan on trying it all; Short cycles, long cycles, and everything in between. And all of it guided by bloodwork. I am absolutely in no way wanting to gain everything all at once. Thats why i was opting to go with short cycles. Want to make sure that I make slow and steady process and give my body plenty of chances for my own Hpta to keep up with the ever changing body. Who knows maybe im a complete nutcase
 
tbonexl said:
I can go to a buffet and gain 5+ lbs in a couple hours. Does it mean that its 5 lbs of muscle? Will I keep those gains? If I go to the buffet once a week will i gain 20 lbs of muscle in a month?

Are u starting to see how stupid this is?
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So know real muscle is created up to week two with the use of short esters? None of that can be kept? even two pounds?
 
Test Rage said:
What is your opinion of using AAS to accelerate the time to get closer to natural peak condition. Not everyone is a freakin mesomorph. I honestly probably eat 5 large meals a day. People in my life always comment on the size and frequency of my meals. I am eating man. Also could you give me some examples of harm that could be done by two week cycles? Or in your opinion is it just a waste of money? I am on the hyper side, thyroid is a little over active. Thats why i believe I will blow up on 19nors because they will put the breaks on my own t3 output.
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Your bodytype predisposes you to a certain weight, fair enough. I've had this discussion with Roush before, I still feel safe saying if you aren't putting on weight you aren't eating enough. Five meals clearly isn't cutting it, or they don't have enough calories. Start eating jars of natural peanut butter, drinking multiple cartons of egg whites and eating a whole chicken every day. On top of what you're eating now. Report back in two months, I bet you weigh 5-10lbs more; not necessarily all muscle but if your training is up to par it'll likely be 80% or more lean mass.
 
Roush said:
In your original post you said you were looking to do "8 cycles in one year"--
OK, so your not trying to be a body builder.. why 8 cycles in a year?
Prob cause you think that you can put on all this muscle and get where you want in a short period of time.. Your trying to rush it all at once with all these short cycle.
Long and steady wins the race.
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Roush sorry to bug you, but I want to know what is the typical time of a PCT for an 8 week cycle? Then after PCT, what is typical period of time before starting next cycle?
 
snowpatrol123 said:
Your bodytype predisposes you to a certain weight, fair enough. I've had this discussion with Roush before, I still feel safe saying if you aren't putting on weight you aren't eating enough. Five meals clearly isn't cutting it, or they don't have enough calories. Start eating jars of natural peanut butter, drinking multiple cartons of egg whites and eating a whole chicken every day. On top of what you're eating now. Report back in two months, I bet you weigh 5-10lbs more; not necessarily all muscle but if your training is up to par it'll likely be 80% or more lean mass.
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Dude that is insane! IM going to do it!!! haha I will post back. Also going to post some pics so you guys can tell me how scrawny i am some more! lol
 
Your talking about it like u have experience. The fact is u dont. Who's to say that you'll be shaking and crying like a lil bitch when u pull that needle out and get ready to stab it in you? Your getting info from real world experienced users, not some article. That article that u keep referencing doesn't give u all the variables. Are the people doing short cycles on trt? There's just too much shit to know what's what. The reason why the advice was given is because your a noob. You have no experience. The only thing u got going for yourself is u are doing research.
 
tbonexl said:
Your talking about it like u have experience. The fact is u dont. Who's to say that you'll be shaking and crying like a lil bitch when u pull that needle out and get ready to stab it in you? Your getting info from real world experienced users, not some article. That article that u keep referencing doesn't give u all the variables. Are the people doing short cycles on trt? There's just too much shit to know what's what. The reason why the advice was given is because your a noob. You have no experience. The only thing u got going for yourself is u are doing research.
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I apologize if i come across as thinking too highly of my own thoughts. Because I dont. I just have expressed my interest. And I appreciate the feedback. No, they were not on TRT. They were cycling people (not professionals) that were reported to be able to gain a small amount of weight and keep a very good percentage of it because the HPTA was able to recover more quickly. Also they were able to cycle again much sooner. The goal would be to be able to make increment gains and cycle more often. And keep a higher percentage of gains because of a better more full recovery. I know its not conventional. I know conventional has its value. I was just exploring the idea. But I appreciate you putting me in my place. Yes,, I am a noob. lol.
 
tbonexl said:
Your talking about it like u have experience. The fact is u dont. Who's to say that you'll be shaking and crying like a lil bitch when u pull that needle out and get ready to stab it in you? Your getting info from real world experienced users, not some article. That article that u keep referencing doesn't give u all the variables. Are the people doing short cycles on trt? There's just too much shit to know what's what. The reason why the advice was given is because your a noob. You have no experience. The only thing u got going for yourself is u are doing research.
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with regards to needles.. I dont think sticking myself has anything on having stitches across ones throat. lol which i have had 21. scars are there. just faded pretty well thanks to vitamin e oil. wish i didnt apply vit e oil. Scars are badass
 
Sorry man, I'd love to tell you that you're onto something here, but not only are you not ready for AAS (you need to eat more as suggested by snowpatrol), but 2 weeks is HALF the amount of time it takes for the longer esters to even start to build up to a steady-state value in your blood stream. The ONLY way this would work is if you were MEGA-dosing the anabolics, which is NOT what I would suggest. I know a few guys that run what I consider short cycles, and those are at 6-8 weeks with high doses.

I really think you need to hone in on that diet first, then see what you can do once you have it all down. You're still young and have a bit of developing to do without the drugs. Save them for when you've built up enough connective tissue strength and have your diet/training down to an art form. Otherwise, you're not only wasting money - but you're setting yourself up for an injury.

My .02c :)
 
I really don't know about 2 weeks only short cycle... I believe you should aim for at least 6-8 weeks.... Maybe you can make some gains in 2 weeks, I never attempted that. Maybe you can get good results who knows, no1 ever did this... well no1 I know. But there's a thing you have a to consider; your hormones will go up and down and this is going to be hard, mentally speaking; I'm pretty sure that its also bad physically speaking. PCT is a bitch, personally on Clomid, its emotional madness. I really hate PCT, so I always keep my cycles 12-16 weeks. Its your call tho, but man my advice is to aim for at least 6-8 weeks.... 8 weeks in fact..
 
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