SHORT CYCLES - VET opinions please

I really don't know about 2 weeks only short cycle... I believe you should aim for at least 6-8 weeks.... Maybe you can make some gains in 2 weeks, I never attempted that. Maybe you can get good results who knows, no1 ever did this... well no1 I know. But there's a thing you have a to consider; your hormones will go up and down and this is going to be hard, mentally speaking; I'm pretty sure that its also bad physically speaking. PCT is a bitch, personally on Clomid, its emotional madness. I really hate PCT, so I always keep my cycles 12-16 weeks. Its your call tho, but man my advice is to aim for at least 6-8 weeks.... 8 weeks in fact..
No one does it cause it doesn't work
What is your opinion on me beginning AAS after I prove my ability to myself to gain weight with my diet and workout protocol. Is it then acceptable to use AAS to accelerate yourself to your natural peak physique? Also do you believe there are any inherent risks in running two week cycles? If not then why not give it a try? I think most of what ppl have been trying to tell me is it is not the most efficient way to cycle. So they say its a COMPLETE waste.

I'd like to tell you that you need to wait until you are at your absolute genetic potential and only then use it to push past that point, but realistically how many people actually get to their genetic potential before cycling. What I will say is this, when I first started steroids, I was using them as a crutch, not a tool. I would have a sub-par diet, didn't really know how to train etc., and would end up losing most of my progress within a few months because the AAS was making me big, not helping my diet and training make me big, if that makes any sense? The best thing I ever did for my physique is to go natural for a while and learn what different types of training to for my body, same as nutrition, and as a matter of fact I canceled my plans to cycle this year to get more in tune with my diet, because that still isn't all that great. My point here is that it isn't just about gaining weight, it is about learning how to manipulate and sculpt your body.

I commend you for trying to find as much information as possible, even if some people don't agree with it, just make sure you don't get so caught up in going against the grain that you miss out on good info from knowledgeable people. Short cycles are not a complete waste, and can be used effectively, as can long cycles. My point is that until you get every aspect of diet training and nutrition in order and know how you respond to each, it is mostly a waste, maybe not a complete waste but mostly a waste, and really aren't necessary or recommended for a beginner. Short cycles are going to have the same side effects and possible risks of longer cycles, they are not going to be any more detrimental than longer ones. I think what people are trying to say here more than calling you an idiot is that simple cycles are a VERY tried and true method, and screwing around with short cycles is just making shit way more complicated than it needs to be. By all means once you have some experience with AAS, try out some short cycles and see how it works for you but I would get some AAS experience under your belt first. For example, lets say you take a compound that you react really badly to and it keeps you from training or training at 100%, assuming you can narrow down which one is doing that and cut it out, lets say you lost a week of training, now you only have 1 more week of on cycle training. What I'm saying is it's easy to read study's or people's writing, but actually being on AAS and having personal experience with it is completely different than reading about it. And believe me there a LOT of people with a LOT more experience and more book knowledge on pretty much every aspect of this world than I do, so listen to them. I'm not saying don't keep reading and learning from different opinions but the experience a lot of these guys provide is invaluable
It's like when we get one type of ridiculous post, we get a barrage of the same or very close to the same for the next few days. Is there really that many lazy/ illiterate people out there? I pity 'da fooooos!
It's like when we get one type of ridiculous post, we get a barrage of the same or very close to the same for the next few days. Is there really that many lazy/ illiterate people out there? I pity 'da fooooos!

Dude, thanks for the welcome! ***8593;

And for all the negative energy folk on here,, im assuming you are on tren or in the midst of an unsuccessful pct! Thanks for the feedback.

So I guess im going to do an 8 week prop cycle. Im going to attempt this at a later time. Im going to get myself to 175 lbs before I do it. I will earn the right to use gear. Thank you guys.
Thanks KingPen. I really appreciate it. Just curious. have you read any of Roberts write ups? he seems to be very knowledgeable. If you can gain real muscle in 8 or ten weeks time, with solid dosing during two weeks do you think its not possible to keep a couple pounds. And be able to repeat this because the Hpta is still veryy ready to respond and recover.

I personally don't think that you'd gain much of any muscle in only 14 days....Regardless of any amount of anabolic you may be taking in that time period. Two weeks is simply not enough time for your body to substantially change.

For me it seems like "gains" don't really start coming until 6,7,8 weeks into a cycle... I personally think the best route for anyone to go is to run a slightly longer cycle, 15-20 weeks at least. People talk about gains dropping off 10-12 weeks in.. Thats BS, you will keep growing no doubt. Up your Calories, maybe up your dose a bit. THE GAINS COME!
Dude, thanks for the welcome! ***8593;

And for all the negative energy folk on here,, im assuming you are on tren or in the midst of an unsuccessful pct! Thanks for the feedback.

So I guess im going to do an 8 week prop cycle. Im going to attempt this at a later time. Im going to get myself to 175 lbs before I do it. I will earn the right to use gear. Thank you guys.

You don't need to "earn the right" to use gear, we aren't the keepers of the gains by any means...90% of the feedback may not have been positive but it is ALL meant to help you. EG: Negative response to two week cycle idea because it's a bad idea. 175 is still small, but it will be a better start. Eat eat eat, shoot for 185-190 and if you have to settle for 180.
Pro body builders are getting way bigger and freakier than they were in years past.. AAS use and trends change (which may be one factor, as well as insulin, nutrition, etc.)..
I'm not really up on the trends (old school test deca cycles are best for me imo), but one of the trends now is LONG cycles, running for 14-20 weeks followed by 'cruising' low doses of testosterone after that. Guys do this because going ON/OFF and ON/OFF and running all this Pct and going through the emotions of being off after being on etc.. is a lot to take.
Long cycles followed by cruising doses seems to be having good results both physically and emotionally for a lot of guys, and perhaps why it is a popular trend. This is the exact opposite of what your proposing with short cycles, lots of pct and then back to short cycles. .you'll be up an down and all over the map.
Personally I'd rather be on a long cycle and cruise then go through all the crap involved with short burst and short cycles. But everyone is different.
If you are going to take gear then there is no point coming off, its a waste of time and money, cruise on 250mgs of test E, then cycle up and down 3 or 4 times a year.
Npp or tren is going to completely shut you down most likely in 2 weeks. The only way this theory of 2 week cycles could yield any true muscle would be with test suspension which is active in your body within around a hour combined with something like anadrol or D-bol. Your still going to probably shut your self down pretty bad. And you most likely will not keep a lot of muscle.

I use to do 3 week cycles of pro hormones with no testosterone base when i was younger. And i can honestly say i gained some good weight i would end up keeping around 4 to 5 pounds of pretty dense muscle. But it always disappeared after about 4 to 6 months. I don't recommend oral only cycles but i think that is the only way your idea would even have the possibility of working combined with test suspension.

What you need to do if you want to cycle is gain at least 10 to 20 pounds of weight naturally. Figure out some way to do it. The thing that sucks is any short cycle is going to involve lots of injecting. And for a first cycle you don't want to be injecting something 3 times to 4 times a week it can get very annoying and possibly kind of scary if you hate injecting stuff. I honestly recommend sticking to 500mgs of test E a week for 3 months with Ai's, hcg , and proper PCT. I have learned the more complicated you make a cycle the more that can go wrong.

Just do the base recommendation cycle. Honestly something like NPP will shut you down in about a week. So being shut down is basically inevitable you can not avoid it. The only possible ways to not be be shut down and take steroids are complicated and have their own dangers. A lot of guys use to take like 5mgs of d-bol every day and claimed it didn't shut them down. But i am by no means recommending that its a out dated very bad idea on multiple different levels. Basically you need to spend a good amount of time getting bigger naturally. And then do a basic 1st cycle like testosterone for 3 months.
It's like when we get one type of ridiculous post, we get a barrage of the same or very close to the same for the next few days. Is there really that many lazy/ illiterate people out there? I pity 'da fooooos!

Dude, thanks for the welcome! ***8593;

And for all the negative energy folk on here,, im assuming you are on tren or in the midst of an unsuccessful pct! Thanks for the feedback.

So I guess im going to do an 8 week prop cycle. Im going to attempt this at a later time. Im going to get myself to 175 lbs before I do it. I will earn the right to use gear. Thank you guys.
An 8 week prop cycle would be solid, and about the shortest I'd go with any sort of entered compound. That being said, I've had good successful with suspension cycles for 4 weeks. Even with suspension, I wouldn't go less than 4 weeks, just doesn't make a ton of sense. If you used suspension for 4 weeks, or even prop for 6 weeks with HCG, I couldn't see you having much of an issue with recovery. As people have said before, one's ability to recover is more based in genetics and age, or at least I would argue....unless someone is running some crazy cycles for a veryyyy long time.
Guess you already get what you are looking for. The consensus is short cycles are generally a bad idea, especially for beginners like you, for many reasons.

I do not see much a following for Bill Roberts. He had a theory how you can recover easily if your cycles are kept short like for a duration or two weeks. His argument is that the complete shut down process, from pituitary to LH/FSH to test production, take a while and he proposed that two weeks is probably not long enough for a complete shut down, which leads to a quick recovery, which he proposed for a duration of four weeks.

My main problem for his theory is that he did not prove any of that, either with published papers or backed up with blood test results.

On the contrary, we have see how steroids like tren or deca can shut you down, really quick.

What is more, even though you can achieve high supernatural hormone levels optimized for muscle growth. The actual protein synthesis/muscle building process takes time. 2 lbs of weight is very easy in two weeks but 2 lbs of pure muscle, one short two week cycle after another? Show me the prof please?

Lastly, in a very general sense, our body loves to achieve homeostasis. Repetitively put your body's hormone levels up and down in 2 on 4 off cycles just does not sound right.
I guess everyone was blown away by the minutiae OP dazzled us with and forgot he's 22 fucking years old. Too early for AAS. You still have probably 3 more years of peak, natural testosterone in you that you should be figuring out how to take advantage of. You should be lifting heavy, doing complex core movements and eating at a surplus with enough protein to feed your goal lean body mass. Check out Wendler's 5-3-1 program, add some high volume with a proper diet and voila, goals!

Check out these links for more information (I take no credit for these threads, they are just excellent information from the local board lords that I think sum up a lot of info in one spot):


My First Cycle: Planning and Executing a Successful Cycle

Standard Post Cycle Therapy (PCT's)

Get smart, get fed, get fit, get jacked.
Guys, I want to thank you for your thoughts and advice. I am now of the opinion that I should prove to myself I can manipulate my body through natural means for a while. I would like to put on at least 15 more lbs before my first cycle. This will take a long time for me; as I have previously stated, my body really seems to burn through nutrients. Maybe ages 22-24 will be enough time for my metabolism to gear back slightly and then with a healthy natural test level I will be able to add mass and it be kept lean. I then will cycle test at various doses/esters/durations for a while and figure out what im doing with my AI's and Pct's. I understand the consensus and the reasons provided.

Very tempting to get into AAS for a guy like me who seems to not be able to pack the weight on quickly or keep it. My body is awsome in every way except for that it lacks mass! It is lean flexible strong. Just not enough weight behind me to accomplish what I want.

Thanks for the welcome. I hope to make some friends here. Some of you guys I can tell really do care. Im the type of guy that cares alot about what I do and the people around me. So good luck to all on your goals this 2014.

I will be commenting and annoying because thats how I learn. Just a fair warning! haha
My body is awsome in every way except for that it lacks mass! It is lean flexible strong. Just not enough weight behind me to accomplish what I want.

After my first injection I put on 33 lbs in 5 months by simply taking a small and safe amount of testosterone (200 mg e5d)

worked just fine for me.. didn't play around with short 2 week blasts, or 8 week multi chem cycles, or pct, short cycle pct and then back on, then back on pct and so on and taking every drug under the sun constantly going up and down.
Just a basic steady supply of test.

keep it simple, gain results!

5 months of small dosage of test.. mass gained without crazy complex cycles
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Hey guys, this is my first post and im going to get straight to business. not a ton of personal experience here but I have solid understanding of the drugs. Just looking for some experienced opinions from some vets. I am young. However, do not look down on me for being young. I have made up my mind and am going to air on the side of caution through all of this. I am a huge fan of short cycles. I really appreciate the work and analysis of Bill Roberts. I feel like the short cycles are healthier and with discipline you can achieve similar results over time. I am not trying to compete ever. I just want to enhance my image and strength. I was an all american baseball athlete a short time ago in high school (at 155 lbs) but that all came crashing down with injury. I have recovered and would possibly like to try to compete in a few years. I would like to take a moment to paint a picture of myself to give you guys some context on my case. You guys are going to think im crazy.

22 years of age
163 lbs
Torso is slightly on longer end of average
Legs are on slightly shorter end of average
I do not have measurements but I can tell you I am narrow (obviously)
Thighs are good thickness.
My glutes are well developed.
lower quads down is all pretty small.
shoulders and back are not wide but muscular.
arms are very strong and developed.
chest is strong.
flexible athlete.
Fast athlete.
Very agile athlete.
not the best jumper tho. (can grab the rim but thats it)
9-10 percent bodyfat
I cum minimum of two times per day with my own natural chemical balance.

I struggled with acne bad only on my face from ages 17-20.
Very high strung also borderline aggressive individual, short temper. Also very comical. Emotional/passionate. Determined. Basically, I could be considered an idiot.

Also, Im sorry too brag and i may be wrong but im a very strong 163lbs.

For some reason my tiny legs can squat 405 3 times. I can bench 225. Father and mother are both powerful people. Let me assure you these are legit numbers.

full head of hair, getting close to a full beard (still few patches)
no hair on my body whatsoever (possibly because of my native american genes)

Native american, french, irish, lebanese, german

I want to cycle two weeks at a time in order to net about 3-5 lbs lean mass per cycle.

I may end up extending to a few eight week cycles towards the end of 2014.

My concerns are avoiding acne, avoiding any significant lipid shift or liver stress whatsoever. and avoiding hpta shutdown on my two week cycles.

Hoping to get in 8 cycles this year to end the year at apx- 185 lbs at 9-10% BF while maintaining complete flexibility.

List of Chemicals that I believe I will settle on rotating in some fashion:

AAS: Test Prop, NPP, Mast Prop, Tren Ace, Dbol, Tbol, Proviron.

AI: Aromasin. I want to pick up another to have just in case I have issues with dosing the aromasin and need something to fall back on. DEX or LETRO?

SERMS: Torem. I do not want to use Nolva or Clomid. I need my eyes 100% perfect and am concerned about the ocular toxicity of clomid. Also, from what Ive read, ppl that have actually tried Torem feel better and feel like recovery is quicker. Ralox also is of interest strictly for its superior ability to ward off gyno.

**As a gyno preventative measure should I make sure I have either Letro or Ralox on hand? I would like to have two serms and two AI's so that I can experiment with my response over the course of a few of my short cycles. Basically I have given my first selection for both my SERM and AI. I just want to get suggestions on my second of each.

Dopamine Agonist:

Either Prami or Caber. Im leaning towards prami for its GH stimulating effects. Will dose right before bed.

On Cycle Therapy:

HCG 250iu twice weekly.
HMG 75iu eod last 5 days of cycle
Also going to dose Naltrexone on the longer cycles.
Also considering dosing Triptorelin on 8 week cycles first three days of pct at 10mcg ed.

**balls will be full as shit. Hypothalamus will be firing still, Pituitary will be catching and firing aswell. Will make for brief Torem PCT and fast full recovery.

Growth Hormone and related factors:

CJC 1295 W/o DAC
cycle GHRP 6 for appetite increases

Extra Items:

Melanontan II





Diet: My diet is already spot on. High protein high carb diet moderate fat. Consume at least 4k every day. Also I make sure I get at least one really green smoothy per day in my vitamix. This is my pride and joy. I take a multi, vit D, occasional B12 shot, and fish oil.

Im still developing my training program. It is low volume. High weight. No longer that an hour in the gym approach.

I will update with actual sample cycles and before photos.

Also, I am planning on trying brand Optimum Pharma. This will be my first online experience. Im concerned about quality and getting screwed over. Eventually I will develop a powder source but not yet. Does anyone have an opinion on Optimum Pharma? I havent ordered yet but would like to confirm my communication with them is legit as I have been emailing them. If someone is happy to PM then awsome. If not then I understand..this is my first post on here. Looking forward to getting to know you guys.

I really just wanted to get some THOUGHTFUL responses to my ideas. I know it is not a conventional approach. I am going to be safe and learn what I need. I just want to accelerate my development to my own natural peak. Obviously I did not include dosage. Im still working on exact dosing. I know this could be argued to be more important than the drugs themselves. I am working on it and will post a few sample cycles that I have in mind as well as a few pics of me before I begin.

Thanks for reading!

Thanks in advance for your input!
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