Side Effects

[JOWS6]

I was hoping some of you guys could address the potential side effects read on the website's "Anabolic Steroid side effects and addiction" article:

1. " In clinical trials, treatment with anabolic steroids resulted in a decreased hepatic excretory function. In addition, intra hepatic cholestasis, reflected by itch and jaundice, and hepatic peliosis were observed. Hepatic peliosis is a hemorrhagic cystic degeneration of the liver, which may lead to fibrosis and portal hypertension. Rupture of a cyst may lead to fatal bleeding."

2. "However, during anabolic steroid use total cholesterol tends to increase, while HDL-cholesterol demonstrates a marked decline, well below the normal range. Androgens and anabolic steroids stimulate HTL, presumably resulting in decreased serum levels of HDL-cholesterol."

3. "There is evidence that the use of anabolic steroids does elicit structural changes in the heart and that the ischemic tolerance is decreased after steroid use. Echocardiographic studies in bodybuilders, using anabolic steroids, reported a mild hypertrophy of the left ventricle, with a decreased diastolic relaxation, resulting in a decreased diastolic filling."

These issues scare me in seeking testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) treatment for my hypogonadism. I am not contemplating testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) for athletic reasons but the symptoms associated with hypogonadism (libido, fatigue, low-grade depression).

I was happy to see that my HDL levels were pretty high, although my levels of LDL were high as well. I would like to keep my HDL levels high but according to this article, it may decrease?

The cardiac changes in the heart as a result from steriod-use frighten me as well. I've seen a lot of Youtube videos of soccer players dying on the field because of genetic abnormalities of the heart similar to the aforementioned side effects of AS-use. I also read, but can't seem to find it, that AS-use may lead to pulmonary embolism resulting in death?

Any input is greatly appreciated!

 

[cashout]

Okay, I'll give you some input with peer-reviewed medical and academic references to support my statements. The problem with the statements listed is that they are generalizations and offer no specific population sample or description of the treatment from which the conclusions were drawn.


1. " In clinical trials, treatment with anabolic steroids resulted in a decreased hepatic excretory function. In addition, intra hepatic cholestasis, reflected by itch and jaundice, and hepatic peliosis were observed. Hepatic peliosis is a hemorrhagic cystic degeneration of the liver, which may lead to fibrosis and portal hypertension. Rupture of a cyst may lead to fatal bleeding."

>>This is very true for ORAL 17-alpha methylated steroids not injectable steroids like Testosterone Cyp used in HRT. Unless you re using oral steroids, this is of no concern.

2. "However, during anabolic steroid use total cholesterol tends to increase, while HDL-cholesterol demonstrates a marked decline, well below the normal range. Androgens and anabolic steroids stimulate HTL, presumably resulting in decreased serum levels of HDL-cholesterol."

>>>Most comprehensive studies on the application on Testosterone do not support this conclusion. See Bhasin, Woodhouse et al., (2001) American Journal of Endocrinol Metablolism - in a multi-treatment 20 week study of Testosterone, changes in cholesterol/HDL where statistically not significant in all treatment groups except the 600 mg per week group. Most Hormone Replacement Therapy (HRT) use 200mg or less per week.

3. "There is evidence that the use of anabolic steroids does elicit structural changes in the heart and that the ischemic tolerance is decreased after steroid use. Echocardiographic studies in bodybuilders, using anabolic steroids, reported a mild hypertrophy of the left ventricle, with a decreased diastolic relaxation, resulting in a decreased diastolic filling."

>>>This is describing the issue of injection fraction. In common terms, that is the amount of blood that the heart can pump in a single beat compared to the total amount of blood required to sustain proper function in the body. Most men are around 55% inject fraction. Many long time heavy steroid uses exhibit injection fractions in the mid 40s. That is lower than the average population metric. However, most every trained athlete also exhibts a lower inject fraction ratio than what is seen in the average population. So the question here is this - Is it caused by steroid use or heavy exercise? Based on the fact that there are millions of heavily trained athletes that never use juice and still exhibit reduced injection fraction, I argue that it is not something specifically cause by steroids by more so by heavy training.


There is a ton of peer reviewed published research out there on these three topics. Use PubMed to do some of your homework. You'll be amazed at the amount of misinformation in the mainstream media regarding this topic.

 

[CHIP WADOWSKI]

WOW. That's an awful lot of bad stuff stemming from the ABUSE OF AND ADDICTION TO anabolic steroids for the use of BODYBUILDING AND PERFORMANCE AND OR PHYSICAL ENHANCEMENT purposes! I'd probably be rather scared to abuse AAS also. You are very vise to be conscious of the things that can happen to potential abusers. BTW..... did your thread actually have a point to it that ACTUALLY RELATES IN ANY WAY, SHAPE, OR FORMto the therapeutic administration of HRT/TRT????.... Or are you just another individual with an "AGENDA"against the form of therapy that you say you are trying to adopt as a way of life?? I think that there are a great many M.D.'s that you could go to in an attempt to seek "higher learning" that would be happy to support your agenda. I think you have 8 posts on this site and one of them was a "half-assed" patronization to one of my responses to you and the rest that I can remember are all manipulatively agenda driven trying to expose a supposed downside to people improving their lives via means of HRT/TRT. Now, again, I ask.... Is there actually any MERIT to your original question??

As for the YOU TUBE video, though, I CAN COMPLETELY UNDERSTAND YOUR CONCERNS. I ONCE SAW A YOU TUBE VIDEO WHERE TWO GUYS WERE DRESSED UP AS NINJA'S.... AND THEY WERE HAVING A PRETEND SWORD FIGHT.... BUT WITH REAL SWORDS..... AND THE ONE GUY SWUNG HIS SWORD REALLY HARD.... AND THE OTHER GUY DIDN'T MOVE HIS ARM OUT OF THE WAY.... AND THE GUY THAT SWUNG HIS SWORD REALLY HARD CUT OFF THE GUY WHO LEFT HIS ARM IN THE WAY.... AND THE GUY WHO LEFT HIS ARM IN THE WAY BLED A LOT. I BET THE GUY WHO BLED ALOT MIGHT HAVE HAD HIGH BLOOD PRESSURE FROM STEROID ABUSE.

 

[JOWS6]

Um, . . . . . . . .

Do not assume anything about me. I did test low in testosterone and researching testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) as a treatment option for me. I am what you consider a "Noobie" jus' trying to find answers as I am looking for the pro's and con's of TRT. I've picked up many books, articles and studies regarding testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) and I am very happy with the findings. I do not have an agenda, but I want to know everything about testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) before I ask for a prescription; both good and bad.

I am not sure where you beef with me lies. I found your story very inspirational to me and others as well. I am also dumbfounded by your statement: "I think you have 8 posts on this site and one of them was a "half-assed" patronization to one of my responses to you and the rest that I can remember are all manipulatively agenda driven trying to expose a supposed downside to people improving their lives via means of HRT/TRT." Where is this coming from?? What response are you referring to? I am in no way patronizing you or others and I am in no way, shape or form "manipulating" people.

If anything, you have been patronizing me with your over-the-top responses. Again, I am new to this and was wondering if I was at risk of these side-effects from testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) even if I am not abusing them.

 

[JOWS6]

Again, I would like to clear my name as you have tainted my "reputation" on here Chip. Where was I patronizing you in any of my previous posts? I do not wish to be viewed the way you are labeling me.

Please, I ask, all the members reading this thread to do a search of all the posts I've made and judge for yourself whether or not I've been patronizing anyone or manipulating others with a "secret agenda"!

 

[cjw2021]

You already appear to have cholesterol problems and you are scared about testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) causing cholesterol problems? To the original poster - people come to this forum because they need help. He is not tainting your "reputation" by answering your question. If you are that concerned about your online reputation maybe you are in the wrong forum. If you have honest questions that is fine, but you must respect the people here. Chip is referring to how modern doctors that condemn the use of testosterone therapy do not differentiate between bodybuilders taking ten times a testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) dose and the individual who just wants to be normal. Testosterone saved my life. I can cite loads of studies showing how it improves organ (liver even) functioning in many diseases. My body would not even warm up before taking testosterone. My levels were in the 300s for the 4 years straight that I tested them when at my age they should be 900. Chip is doing God's work here. The truth is is that testosterone is so beneficial for metabolism and immune function and so comparatively cheap that some of the medical profession doesn't want to acknowledge it as a treatment for that reason. You have to remember that majority of these so called studies are conducted on rats using extremely high doses, or they give a human a 400mg long estered shot all at once, completely ignorant that it will metabolize into estrogen at such a high dose and wreak havoc on the body. This is why someone like Chip is who to deal with if you have a low testosterone problem. He does not just make referrals to people without a problem. Do you realize how many people who are diabetic or develop heart problems in life have low testosterone? Nearly all of them. Testosterone will rejuvenate the heart faster than anything. Sure, in excessive ridiculous amounts it will overwork it, just like giving yourself a shot of adrenaline every minute would. I like you was scared of all these studies done on rats or using abnormally high doses until I got on it and now I feel like one million dollars and virtually all my out of range labs are back to normal and most importantly I feel normal. Eventually all of your health problems will get worse until you feel like an incapable little girl like we all did with low T and then you will jump in the boat and solve your problems. The longer you wait the longer it will take to heal. That is my best advice. There is more danger to popping aspirin or crossing the street than there is to taking testosterone in testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) doses long term.

 

[JOWS6]

If you have honest questions that is fine, but you must respect the people here.

I understand that, but my point is that I have been nothing but respectful to others. I've been reading a lot of threads and posts and I have a sense as to who's a douche or a dick on this forum. I would not like to viewed as one and or have any negative connotations associated with me from Chip's false assumptions of me. That is all I'm saying.

Thanks for your input CJ, again I jus' want to know what I'm getting into!

I have seen some studies on rats but they were positive so far. In one study, they pumped the rats with enough noradrenaline to induce a myocardial infarction. Those that were supplemented with testosterone before, were more likely to survive the high amounts of noradrenaline suggesting testosterone had cardio-protective qualities!

Regarding my cholesterol; I have a high HDL count and would like to keep it high obviously, I was looking into feedback from those on testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) if they saw their HDL drop.

Thanks!

 

[CHIP WADOWSKI]

JOWS6.... If I did, in fact, misinterpret your questions improperly, you DO have my sincere apologies. Unfortunately, in recent months, this particular forum has been overrun by certain individuals with agenda's against HRT/TRT. We are on this forum to help people with true HRT/TRT needs. Not to battle low life fools with nothing better to do with their time than try to banish a form of therapy that saves lives. Once again, my apologies.

 

[JOWS6]

Don't worry about, a simple misunderstanding and I can see through your other posts you really care about your patients. It's all good!

Oh, and here's my lab results:

Total Testosterone: 170 250-1100
Free Testosterone: 24.0 46.0-224.0
Bioavailable Test: 50.4 110.0-575.0

SHBG: 27 7-49
FSH: 3.1 1.0-13.0 (Can't really read this line clearly because of Fax)
TSH: 2.99 0.40-4.50
Prolactin: 7.6 2.0-18.0

I see that I wasn't tested for everything and this only a sneek-peak as to what is going on with me but based on my Prolactin values, does it suggest that my pituitary is normal? The endo doesn't believe I have a pituitary tumor based on lack of signs and symptoms associated with these tumors (no headaches, and no vision impairment). He wants to schedule an MRI to make sure, which worries me.

 

[3J]

JOWS6.... If I did, in fact, misinterpret your questions improperly, you DO have my sincere apologies. Unfortunately, in recent months, this particular forum has been overrun by certain individuals with agenda's against HRT/TRT. We are on this forum to help people with true HRT/TRT needs. Not to battle low life fools with nothing better to do with their time than try to banish a form of therapy that saves lives. Once again, my apologies.

yea chip... seems like the OP just had some fearful questions... he seems g2g


to the OP... if u wanna get into TRT.. chips is the guy...

also, understand that when u do testosterone replacement therapy (TRT), those issues that you've read about do not apply because u are not putting a superphysiological dosage of anything in your body.....

this is about the theraputic use, not the abuse, of steroids

 

[cjw2021]

Your test is so low. I would seek help immediately. There is no way your body will sustain proper functioning at that level. By the time you see a doctor and they pass you around to each other (endocrinology, urology), you are looking at thousands of dollars plus whatever your insurance won't cover for prescriptions. In the end it is a hell of a lot easier just to call Chip. For me personally Chip's plan is cheaper than any single doctor including prescriptions. My doctors screwed around with me and refused to consider estrogen levels and such. As I said, I was in the 300s and lost all desire to do anything. Now I workout daily and have plenty of energy to do whatever I want. Most doctors are not hip to testosterone replacement therapy (TRT), and will end up screwing you up more than helping you. Whatever you do, be very aware that most docs do not know how to administer testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) and will laugh at you if you even try to bring up one intelligent thought or study. They learned their medicine from doctors that practiced 30 years ago who learned what they knew in medical school 30 years before that. So a lot of these doctors are practicing medicine that is over a half decade old.