So you want to run your first cycle...


New member
After countless hours of research on compounds, dieting, and training. I was continuously met with resistance from the body building community. I kept hearing that I had not been training long and hard enough natty. That starting a cycle at 180lbs 5'11" is WRONG. Don't do it. Train natty. You're not ready.

This perturbed me. No one was saying why other than you need a solid base. Like all new guys I'm thinking well why can't I just build my base with gear, then run more cycles. As if I already had the base to begin with?! After months of arguements like "you're telling me I can't use gear like someone would tell me I can't smoke weed because I haven't been drinking alcohol long enough"

I contacted an IFBB pro for advice. And it was the best advice I've heard after 8 months on forums. Here's what he told me.

"Bro, natural lifting promotes muscle hyperplasia as well as hypertrophy. When you are developing your muscle "frame" you want an increase in the number of muscle cells as well as an increase in cellular size and volume.

Steroid growth is confined to hypertrophy only. And, real permanent hypertrophy is only a fraction of what we perceive as "growth" on a cycle. It is the only lasting effect of any cycle. By far the greatest increase in muscle volume we see in steroid use is caused by the compounds pulling water into the muscle tissue for a limited time which also results in a great increase in strength and a significant increase in weight and makes the muscles fuller and rounder. But, steroids, with limited exceptions do not partition nutrients so they will not only drive hypertrophy of muscle tissue but also contribute to an increase in adipose tissue as well. So, after the cycle ends, the water will abate in diuresis flattening out the new tissue, and leaving new adipose tissue that must be burned off.

The less tissue you have on your frame as you start to cycle, the less steroids will be able to volumize and grow.

The bigger you are from a natty perspective, the bigger you will become with the use of anabolics

The stronger you are from a natty perspective, the stronger you will become with the use of anabolics.

It is the "big guys" that blow up on steroids and seem to keep their gains. An average joe who has been in the gym 2 years with a gym toned body and maybe a just above average volume of muscle is not going to get the permanent lift in bulk that a big natty guy would get.

I don't know exactly what the magic numbers are but it is related to how much lean dry mass or LBM you are carrying. If you are 185 lbs with a 15% BF you have a lean mass of only 157 lbs. Not a lot of tissue for steroids to work on.

If you are 230 with a 15% BF you have a lean mass of over 200 lbs. of solid muscle. Steroids will blow that up big time and long term.

I wish I could point you to scientific studies that explain this more rigorously. The only reason we don't have these kinds of studies is because steroid use is not that common in the general population and the government does not give grant money to fund research on steroids.

You should have no trouble in believing that I want you to succeed bro. Why would I not want that for you? Why would I even spend time here in the first place if it was not with the intent of helping people? Drugs will not allow anybody to "short circuit" the few years of agony and ball crushing training it take to build the foundation of a good physique.

If you build a bigger base, you will get what you want from the chemicals. If you don't, you won't. There is no reason on this earth I would lie to you bro. None."

I hope this helps some of you who were in the same shoes.


I am banned!
So since you don't have the studies you're basically speaking bro science? How can you really say steroids don't increase "muscle cells" but do induce hypertrophy? Look at testosterone.... it stimulates IGF-1 and protein synthesis, protein synthesis is the basis of how new cells are forming and being repaired.

Not saying you're wrong about some of the statements, of course some of the anabolics cause huge water retention that's lost but if one controls e2 then this shouldn't be as bad.

I also agree that one should build a strong frame prior to starting a cycle but that's because you will only sell yourself short in the long run.

Seems like a ton of speculation.


I am banned!

Not sure if you've read that or not, but don't worry about the doses for the purpose of this discussion.

Both 300mg and 600mg of test increased muscle mass and decreased fat mass well increasing strength, all this with no weight training during the study. Just one thing to show that some of what you were told is flawed.

Regardless of that I still agree a good foundation is needed, but to me that's based a lot on tendon and joint health too. If you were to begin weight lifting well running 500mg of test your muscles are going to get ahead of your joints and tendons which can lead to injury, so there is a few good reasons to build a good base for.

I know there is a lack of studies about actual steroid cycles but the above link shows it can directly relate to lean tissue.


New member
personally beeing on my very frist cycle and roughly starting at the same stats you decribed or only a bit more ( 6,0 191 lbs 12-13 % bf at time of first pin ) i have not encountered anything but full support and help here from most if not all the long time vets lurking this forum. IF my cycle was off i was told, mayne in a rough way at times, but it does not matter as long as it was constructive criticism i still count it as free help wich is always good.

Granted it probably may depend on what are your initial goals i builded my natural stat in 5+ years of training and still my goal for the cycle was basically to drop almost all my bf and mantain it lsingle digits ow while keeping all my muscle or at the very most adding 3-5 lbs of muscle. things that forcefully requires aas to be done BUT at the same time it requires a cycle so mild and sustainable to be done, that basically poses next to no treat for you. and basically that's it. that's all i wanna do.

so i think all in all it's a matter of guals. this applies only to the people who really wan't to go full deep in the "bodybuilder" physique lifestile, wich belive it or not it's NOT everyone goal. if your main reason to build your body is,like in my case, for modeling purposes ( and not solely or sepcifically fitness modeling but also general modeling ) to go too mutch over 190 lbs at 5,11-6,0 like me would only be a hindrance. i think people should have fully ingrained in theyr head what they exact final goal is befoure using any sort of enhancing drug in fitness ( and sports in general ) this are only tools at the end of the day i don't use a hammer to chop wood and don't use a saw to drive a nail in. in my case using gear now was not only the right time but the ONLY time to use them to reach my goal. if what this guy said was the general golden rule for using gear i would be way off in using stuff right now. thing is as isaid i'm coming from a complately different prospective i don't want to ever, EVER reach 230 lbs in the first place at my height not even natural.


both will happen on or off gear....
but you should have a base and years of training and good diet so you dont hurt yourself...
also if under 25 dont do it. why? look into it..

BTW a "pro" doesnt mean he knows what hes doing or doing so most effectively, just because hes big. it doesnt take much brains to get big, it takes dedication and basic training and nutrition.


New member
Sounds like regurgitated nonsense IMHO. I don't see how hyperplasia would be more prevalent naturally than it would on gear. I'd think the increase in igf-1 from certain compounds would induce hyperplasia much more effectively than naturally. Not to mention the use of hgh and slin.


I am banned!
I on board with pork chop and joz, I was saying the same thing above about the principle of IGF 1 alone.

I like parks statement on a good base, the good base isn't just your natural built muscle but it's the platform for diet and training routine, commitment and lifestyle. The idea of waiting until you've built enough muscle naturally helps establish the commitment an at that point you should know if you wanna take that leap.

What would be the point in cycling but eating like crap, not sleeping more than 4 hours a night, using all your money on gear so you can't afford quality whole foods, or constantly wanting to party. Things like that.. So when someone tells you wait 5 years that's why they're telling you, and there's also eating properly in PCT then maintaining after... You can just get it together for a cycle then 4 weeks after your done go back to a shitty routine, of course you will lose it all.

Then there the stress on your body, so without the whole bigger picture of the base its not worth it. Muscle growth is muscle growth.