someone experienced with letro please chime in

lee1092

New member
I am running letro as my Aromatase inhibitor (AI), I am gyno prone. At first I was doing .25mg letro every day I pinned mon/sun....but I started getting a gyno flair up...Left nipple formed a small knot beside pre existing knot for a ph cycle a while back...I started to do the the letro protocol and worked my way up to 2.5mg....Pain in the nipple went away after a few days so I did 2.5 mg for only about a day or two in fear of killing on my estrogen on cycle, so I tapered back down to .25mg.....the pain is no longer there but the knot is..

The question is should I do .25ed or .25eod from here on out....

I know I should have had nolva on hand but I didnt so please if you could tell me the best way/dose to maintain enough estrogen and still help rid of this knot..

someone experienced with letro would be great
 
My advice.. Get some nolva(board sponsors) will get it too you fast!
Take arimdex at .25mg a day, and get blood work done.

Letro did absolutely nothing for my gyno along with destroyed my libido and joints.
 
Letro will help prevent gyno as long as it not from prolactin, but little or nothing to reverse it. Run your Aromatase inhibitor (AI) to keep estro in check and add Raloxifene which has been proven to reverse gyno.

Austinite has good post regarding the reversal of gyno, but I can't seem to find it right now.
 
Letrozole is an aromatase inhibitor. One of the most powerful aromatase inhibitors available today. Far too many people are considering this method because many moons ago it was touted as a good tool for reversal. We've learned a lot since then and Selective Estrogen Receptor Modulators (SERM) studies on gynecomastia reversal are readily available for confirmation.

I did a short experiment myself recently when my E2 came back at 46 pg/mL (Range < 29 for a sensitive E2 assay). I did not experience gynecomastia, but I wanted to bring that down back to range. The increase was likely due to switching my Testosterone Therapy administrations from subcutaneous (SubQ) to intramuscular (IM). IM injections have more of an impact on E2 due to faster absorption. This result came about on July 2nd. I had a Letrozole prescription laying around and figured I'd give it a go. It's been so long since I've used Letrozole. My prescription was for 100 microgram capsules.

I administered 100 mcg. (Micrograms) daily. After the 10th day I felt miserable and so I discontinued use. One week after I stopped, I tested E2 again and it came back 2 pg/mL. Remember, this is a full week after Letrozole was discontinued. So it had to be at zero, or "too low to count" for several days. I was bedridden for several days. Completely useless and couldn't find a reason to get up and about. If you've killed your E2 before, you know exactly what I mean. I don't wish this on anyone. Really amazes me that some folks are running this thing using milligram after milligram several times per week. And these "Gynecomastia Reversal" threads using these astronomical doses are just mind boggling. Pretty eye opening once again. Anyway, I waited a while and got back on DIM.

The entire letrozole for gynecomastia reversal came about in 2001 when a study was published. This study was done on mice, not humans. So don't be a mouse, be a man. PMID: 11850204 if you want to look it up.

To give you an example of how low this drug is supposed to be dosed, it was studied in extremely obese hypogonadal men. Overweight men convert far more estrogen than non-overweight men. This is because they carry far more aromatase enzymes. Using Letrozole, these highly aromatizing men were treated with doses of 2mg to 2.5mg once per week. If we break that up, you're looking at about 285 micrograms per day. That's it. This powerful drug never, under any circumstances should be used in a milligram + basis on a daily administered protocol. It is simply outrageous. Reference here.

Let's look at some more recent studies:

Dated: 2011 - Effects of aromatase inhibition on male breast

Tamoxifen was much more effective, however, in the prevention of gynecomastia in these men. Due to these disappointing results, aromatase inhibitors are not recommended as a first-line treatment for gynecomastia in men.

^ Click here for the source of the excerpt above.


Dated: 2004 - Beneficial effects of raloxifene and tamoxifen in the treatment of pubertal gynecomastia

Inhibition of estrogen receptor action in the breast appears to be safe and effective in reducing persistent pubertal gynecomastia, with a better response to raloxifene than to tamoxifen. No side effects were seen in any patients.

^ Click here for the source of the excerpt above.


Dated: 2004 - Management of physiological gynaecomastia with tamoxifen

Thirty-six men accepted tamoxifen for physiological gynaecomastia. They were offered oral tamoxifen 20mg once daily for 6-12 weeks. Oral tamoxifen is an effective treatment for physiological gynaecomastia, especially for the lump type.

^ Click here for the source of the excerpt above.

So we've learned a couple things here. We know that an Aromatase Inhibitor is a poor choice, and we also learned that SERM's are more effective, safer and with no side effects. Lastly, we learned that while Tamoxifen is effective, it is superseded by the superior SERM; Raloxifene.

Aromatase inhibitors are not selective and will demolish your estradiol levels with prolonged use, rendering you miserable and useless. In the case of Letrozole, you could deplete your E2 levels to nothing in no time. SERMs like Tamoxifen and Raloxifene are pure antagonist in the E receptor in breast tissue. This is what mainly makes a SERM the clinically preferred drug for gynecomastia reversal.

TO REVERSE GYNECOMASTIA WITH SERMS:

Raloxifene: 60mg daily. You should see improvement in approx. 4 to 6 weeks. If not increase by 20 mg for every 3 weeks, never to exceed 100mg daily. (If you're deficient in calcium, vitamin D or calcitonin, or if you're concerned with bone demineralization, use 60mg daily for 10 days then 30m daily until reversed).

Tamoxifen: 40mg daily for once week. Then 20mg daily until gynecomastia is reversed.

Both protocols above will take time. This is not a 2 week process. Reversal will require patience. But it most certainly is effective, side-effect-free and cost incredibly effective when compared to surgery.
 
Interesting that you used DIM to 'elevate' your estrogen levels... I always thought that DIM was used to 'lower' estrogen if levels were too high?

Lower, not elevate. I use DIM/Copper/Zinc to lower estrogen while on testosterone replacement therapy (TRT). (Waited = allowed time for my e2 to increase naturally, then controlled it with DIM)
 
Lower, not elevate. I use DIM/Copper/Zinc to lower estrogen while on testosterone replacement therapy (TRT). (Waited = allowed time for my e2 to increase naturally, then controlled it with DIM)

Ah, got ya.... it seems DIM is an often overlooked OTC supplement these days...
Sorry for thread-crashing Lee, my fingers were typing before I had a chance to consider being rude!
Good luck with the gyno-reversal bro!
 
If you're on cycle, I recommend either aromasin or Arimidex + Raloxifene.

If you're off cycle, I recommend Raloxifene only.

Ok thanks for the input! If I get raloxifene, and kind of tight on cash being stuck with letro, what dose could I run it at with Raloxifene to be safe. I know its not the best but if I do .25mg eod with that be sufficient?
 
Ah, got ya.... it seems DIM is an often overlooked OTC supplement these days...
Sorry for thread-crashing Lee, my fingers were typing before I had a chance to consider being rude!
Good luck with the gyno-reversal bro!

no worries man, thanks!

Austin, with the Raloxifene help with the old harden knot as well from the ph cycle?
 
My advice.. Get some nolva(board sponsors) will get it too you fast!
Take arimdex at .25mg a day, and get blood work done.

Letro did absolutely nothing for my gyno along with destroyed my libido and joints.

Liquidex on RUI is the same right?
 
Ok thanks for the input! If I get raloxifene, and kind of tight on cash being stuck with letro, what dose could I run it at with Raloxifene to be safe. I know its not the best but if I do .25mg eod with that be sufficient?

I understand and sympathize regarding your inability to purchase a different Aromatase inhibitor (AI). I don't recommend Letrozole so I can't advise you on it. My advice would be to abort your cycle and resolve gynecomastia. You can start another cycle when you're able to obtain another Aromatase inhibitor (AI). I know that's not what you want to hear, but I can only offer safe advice.

no worries man, thanks!

Austin, with the Raloxifene help with the old harden knot as well from the ph cycle?

If it's gynecomastia it will help. If it's pseudogynecomastia it will do nothing.
 
Ok thanks for the input! If I get raloxifene, and kind of tight on cash being stuck with letro, what dose could I run it at with Raloxifene to be safe. I know its not the best but if I do .25mg eod with that be sufficient?

I have no intention of stomping all over the advice you've been given, but if you're at least 4 weeks in - it probably would have been a good idea to get a blood test so you know at what level of E2 you're seeing lumps form. You can then go from this value and determine what levels of Aromatase inhibitor (AI) you actually need. Going on a hormone rollercoaster based on symptoms is really harsh on your body and doesn't really teach you much; except how to treat the gynecomastia you now have developed.

FYI: I was running .75mg EOD and still had slightly elevated estradiol from my last cycle at 975mg/wk of test. I see folks mention that they crush their E2 on as little as .1mg (as Austin mentions above with 100mcg) of Letro, but I have a feeling that either there is a significant difference between RC letro and pharma; or some folks are simply far more sensitive to the drug.
 
I have no intention of stomping all over the advice you've been given, but if you're at least 4 weeks in - it probably would have been a good idea to get a blood test so you know at what level of E2 you're seeing lumps form. You can then go from this value and determine what levels of Aromatase inhibitor (AI) you actually need. Going on a hormone rollercoaster based on symptoms is really harsh on your body and doesn't really teach you much; except how to treat the gynecomastia you now have developed.

FYI: I was running .75mg EOD and still had slightly elevated estradiol from my last cycle at 975mg/wk of test. I see folks mention that they crush their E2 on as little as .1mg (as Austin mentions above with 100mcg) of Letro, but I have a feeling that either there is a significant difference between RC letro and pharma; or some folks are simply far more sensitive to the drug.

Well said. OP is complaining of classic-crashed-e2 symptoms. Blood work is a must at this stage. But I don't know if that's possible considering a different Aromatase inhibitor (AI) is financially unattainable.

My thoughts bolded.
 
Well said. OP is complaining of classic-crashed-e2 symptoms. Blood work is a must at this stage. But I don't know if that's possible considering a different Aromatase inhibitor (AI) is financially unattainable.

My thoughts bolded.

;)

I can read minds over the internet. :D
 
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