Started Testoserone treatment and now raging...

[sdmike77]

First here is my blood work, I did measure 299 for TT before this bloodwork. I'm 35 and have been working out and eating well for over 3 1/2 years.

Red Blood Cells 4.96
White Blood Cells 5.7
Platelets 210

Blood Sugar 80
Electrolytes BUN 31
Liver Normal
Kidneys Normal

Fasting Insulin 3.9
C-Reactive Protein .49
Cortisol 21.3

IGF-1 248 NG/ML
Free Testosterone 7.9 PG/ML
Total Testosterone 558 NG/ML
Total Estrogen 30.8
PSA .3
DHEA 376.1
Pregnenolone 92 NG/ML
TSH 2.95
T3 3.2
T4 1.32
Magnesium Serum 2.3
17 Alpha-Hydroxy Progesterone 63
Vit D 39.3
Homocystine 5.2
Total Cholesterol 160
Triglycerides 74
HDL 53
LDL 92
Chol/HDL Ratio 3

----------------------------------

ok I just started this testosterone cream that was prescribed by a doctor on Monday and I am supposed to put it on twice a day (200mg). First day, at 3pm (2 applications already applied) I couldn't work out at all. I had no energy and I thought maybe I was tired or dehydrated, but it was so bad I had to quit 30 min into the workout. Yesterday, after I put the second application on for the day, I went into a rage. I didn't do anything, but I have never experienced so much anger (especially since there was nothing to be mad about). It lasted about 1 to 2 hours, but I was able to go to the gym and workout. I had a good workout for 50 min, but then started to fatigue fast (kind of weird, but whatever). I talked to my trainer yesterday and he said cut back to once a day and call the doc. So I called the doc this morning and he said he has never heard of anyone getting anger or rage as a side effect in his 18 years of practice. He agreed with my trainer to cut back and keep him updated, so I went to put it on this evening (First application of the day) before going to the gym and within an hour I was raging again. I tried to go to the gym, but I couldn't make it through the workout. Way too tired and angry. Trainer says to call the doc tomorrow again.

So now you have the back story, so my question is; what can cause such a dramatic change in mood like this? I've been reading that some people say testosterone doesn't cause this and it has been proven, although I haven't seen the studies to confirm this allegation. I also read that maybe it could be an increase in estrogen. I remember the doc telling me that the testosterone gets converted to estrogen. If that is the case, is there something out there to block estrogen increase? I'm a little unnerved with my doc saying he has never heard of this, makes me not trust the guy, so that is why I'm on here trying to get some answers. Maybe it is something else? I don't know, but I would appreciate responses from people who have had this or known people that have gone through this. Thanks

 

[IMT staff]

The dramatic change in mood can be caused by estradiol fluctuation. It sounds to me like your having huge fluctuations in serum levels.

Do you remember when you were in puberty and most of us had big mood swings?

This is because of the large fluctuations. So you may not be absorbing the cream correctly, or you could be converting it all to estradiol.

Have you had any blood work since you have been on the gel?

You may want to consider switching to injections so you can have more control of the amount of testosterone your getting.

Also going to once daily dosing is not going to help you, if anything you would want to cut the dose in half and still apply twice per day.

Keep in mind it is usually estradiol that causes mood swings, not testosterone. Estradiol has a direct relationship with brain function.

Hope this helps.

 

[SolomonGrundy]

So it's a compounding pharmacy cream ? 200mg a day is high in my history with almost every gell out there . you simply may need to start lower and test blood and adjust, sounds like you started on the top

 

[sdmike77]

The dramatic change in mood can be caused by estradiol fluctuation. It sounds to me like your having huge fluctuations in serum levels.

Do you remember when you were in puberty and most of us had big mood swings?

This is because of the large fluctuations. So you may not be absorbing the cream correctly, or you could be converting it all to estradiol.

Have you had any blood work since you have been on the gel?

You may want to consider switching to injections so you can have more control of the amount of testosterone your getting.

Also going to once daily dosing is not going to help you, if anything you would want to cut the dose in half and still apply twice per day.

Keep in mind it is usually estradiol that causes mood swings, not testosterone. Estradiol has a direct relationship with brain function.

Hope this helps.

No, no blood work since I started and I haven't taken it today at all. Talked to the doc and he said he will do research. He recommended the shot as well, but I'm a little apprehensive taking so much at once. I really don't want to go to jail because I hurt someone or myself. Is there a way to find out if it is estradiol? Like a test, without having to take another dose of the medicine? How would you get around this estradiol problem, hypothetically? Thanks for your response by the way.

 

[sdmike77]

So it's a compounding pharmacy cream ? 200mg a day is high in my history with almost every gell out there . you simply may need to start lower and test blood and adjust, sounds like you started on the top

Yeah, it doesn't say the percentage, but it is DHEA and Testosterone.

Edit: Just called the pharmacy and verified that it is all test and not DHEA. 200mg a dose - 400mg a day.

 

[Endless]

Did the doc prescribe an AI? Gels aromatize into estrogen way more than muscle injections, so you need an Aromatase inhibitor (AI) to control your estrogen if you are sensative. I would definately skip the creams and go with a low level injection then build up.

When I first started testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) I would get pissed quite a bit easier. that went away the first year.

Did you have any rage issues prior to TRT?

 

[sdmike77]

Did the doc prescribe an AI? Gels aromatize into estrogen way more than muscle injections, so you need an Aromatase inhibitor (AI) to control your estrogen if you are sensative. I would definately skip the creams and go with a low level injection then build up.

When I first started testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) I would get pissed quite a bit easier. that went away the first year.

Did you have any rage issues prior to TRT?

No it was just the T. That is why I'm kind of frustrated with the doc, it doesn't seem like he knows what he is doing. I'm not too keen on injections, so I'm now looking at alternative methods. I've been reading that Zinc helps create more free test, and I think I want to try a estrogen blocker of some kind. Crazy thing is, I took a test stack last year (over the counter) and didn't have a problem at all and I was killing it at the gym.

Finally coming out of all the side effects from this, which was almost a week. What a roller coaster ride that was. I'm not so pissed about the money I wasted, but all the crap I ate this week and not going to gym. I'm really sensitive to sugar, so it takes me a while to get my diet down.

I have a temper but nothing like what I experienced. If I was a 4, then this was a 20. It was off the charts.

 

[halfwit]

Needles are only unappealing at first, I promise. Once you see the differences in how you feel and look, you start to look forward to injecting yourself (at least I and many I know do). Sadly many docs STILL don't acknowledge how damn evil estradiol is to men! It's what raises our blood pressure, it's what elevates our PSA, it's what (as you've seen) causes mood swings and even acne! If your doc can't see the light, it's time to move on to someone that actually has a clue.

FYI, you can tell who the idiots are based on how they want to administer testosterone. If you hear the words pellet, gel, cream, monthly injects, biweekly injects or patch - you need to move on. testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) is still *fairly* new, but any doc that prescribes it should at least keep up on proper dosing and protocol. Stick with it man, once you get dialed in, it's TOTALLY worth it!

Good luck!

 

[Endless]

What oral stack did you do? Quite a few of those don't aromatize into estrogen which is why you didn't have the rollercoaster issue. They do however have tons of other side effects that can be way more harmful, which is why i wont touch them.

Definately need to get your estrogen under control. Straight test injections have the least side affects of any testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) including most supplements.

Zinc is great and is very helpful with estrogen production. Make sure you take it with food as it can cause wicked nasea. My doctor prescribed 100mg a day with my TRT.. It really helps out.

Needles are a bit daunting but get easier with time. Like halfwit said, you start to look forward to it in time. Ive never used the cream but know a few who have and said the injections are way better.

My first experience with testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) was the pellets. They weren't bad but you have no control over the release. Additionally they tend to aromatize more since they are on the muscle (next to the fat)not in it. They also cost 3x injections, and most of that goes to the doc, which is why alot of them recomend them.

Best to go to a real testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) doc or an online doc that knows what to prescribe. Your lucky you found this place. In less than a week you will know more than 99% of doctors out there. I lurked on here for a couple of years and feel im more in touch with it thany doc.

 

[sdmike77]

Needles are only unappealing at first, I promise. Once you see the differences in how you feel and look, you start to look forward to injecting yourself (at least I and many I know do). Sadly many docs STILL don't acknowledge how damn evil estradiol is to men! It's what raises our blood pressure, it's what elevates our PSA, it's what (as you've seen) causes mood swings and even acne! If your doc can't see the light, it's time to move on to someone that actually has a clue.

FYI, you can tell who the idiots are based on how they want to administer testosterone. If you hear the words pellet, gel, cream, monthly injects, biweekly injects or patch - you need to move on. testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) is still *fairly* new, but any doc that prescribes it should at least keep up on proper dosing and protocol. Stick with it man, once you get dialed in, it's TOTALLY worth it!

Good luck!

Yeah he mentioned a weekly shot. I'll think about it. Thanks for the kind words.

 

[sdmike77]

What oral stack did you do? Quite a few of those don't aromatize into estrogen which is why you didn't have the rollercoaster issue. They do however have tons of other side effects that can be way more harmful, which is why i wont touch them.

Definately need to get your estrogen under control. Straight test injections have the least side affects of any testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) including most supplements.

Zinc is great and is very helpful with estrogen production. Make sure you take it with food as it can cause wicked nasea. My doctor prescribed 100mg a day with my TRT.. It really helps out.

Needles are a bit daunting but get easier with time. Like halfwit said, you start to look forward to it in time. Ive never used the cream but know a few who have and said the injections are way better.

My first experience with testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) was the pellets. They weren't bad but you have no control over the release. Additionally they tend to aromatize more since they are on the muscle (next to the fat)not in it. They also cost 3x injections, and most of that goes to the doc, which is why alot of them recomend them.

Best to go to a real testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) doc or an online doc that knows what to prescribe. Your lucky you found this place. In less than a week you will know more than 99% of doctors out there. I lurked on here for a couple of years and feel im more in touch with it thany doc.

The stack was Alpha Mass with Alpha Bulk which is made by Forerunner. It comes with reboot, but that stuff was worthless. But the stack was really good.

I'll start looking for another doc this week.

How often do you take the injections? Maybe I'll just tell the doc what I want and see if he just wont give it to me. Doesn't seem like he knows much and probably would do anything for me not to mention his name to people.

 

[lowtestosterone.com]

Injection is the way to go (most absorbed and less issues) and a lot of the compounded testosterone available today is so thin you can use a TINY needle. (painless) I think you may need to take the advice of the other members and look for a new testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) doctor who can hold your hand until you are on an effective program.

 

[Endless]

From what I read the Alpha Mass does not aromatize into estrogen, which supports that your raging problem is probably estrogen related. being oral I'm sure it has a host of other horrible side though.

I can always tell when my estro levels get high. I get a bit emotional at things that usually don't affect me. After experiencing this I realize why women can be so emotional! Sometime I'll see something on TV thats a bit sad and my eyes will water up and I'll feel a bit like crying. Other times I'll get frustrated or impatient at thing that never really bothered me. This tells me when I need to adjust my Aromatase inhibitor (AI) dose. You will learn alot about your hormones after a year or two on HRT.

I inject .7cc's of test C every 5 days, this gives me the best levels. I'm lucky because my girlfriend is an MA and gives me great injections. I did have to school her a bit on it since she doesn't do IM injections frequently. I still inject my glutes whenever she is not available and the right side is a bit easier than the left. With my larger upper body it has gotten more difficult to self inject so I may try the quads again. I injected my quads 2x and the PIP was horrible.

Alot of Dr's make money on the injections ($50 per visit) and won't put you on Hormone Replacement Therapy (HRT) if you want to self-inject. If you don't want to do it yourself thats the way to go. If you have a girlfriend, wife or anyone you trust, its really easy to teach them how to inject. I pay about $40 a month for meds and do bloods a few times a year. Definately affordable.

 

[sdmike77]

Ok guys I was wondering if I could get some advice. I talked to low testosterone.com and I'm still not sure what to do. First I got another test on my own and total test was 378 and Estradiol was 18.8. I wanted to get a baseline before I started anything. Although this test didn't have free test.

What are the side effects that you guys that are on treatment, normally get? Have you ever tried other supplementation to increase testosterone like ZMA? I've also heard your sperm count goes down while on treatment, will it come back if I go off treatment. I'm thinking long-term if I ever want to have kids. I would probably need a natural supplement to keep my libido up, but I'll cross that bridge when it comes.

One note, I did look at the first test I took and noticed that Estradiol was measured but I forgot to put it on the initial post above. It was 30.8 and this was taken before I started treatment.

 

[tiredguy]

Ok guys I was wondering if I could get some advice. I talked to low testosterone.com and I'm still not sure what to do. First I got another test on my own and total test was 378 and Estradiol was 18.8. I wanted to get a baseline before I started anything. Although this test didn't have free test.

What are the side effects that you guys that are on treatment, normally get? Have you ever tried other supplementation to increase testosterone like ZMA? I've also heard your sperm count goes down while on treatment, will it come back if I go off treatment. I'm thinking long-term if I ever want to have kids. I would probably need a natural supplement to keep my libido up, but I'll cross that bridge when it comes.

One note, I did look at the first test I took and noticed that Estradiol was measured but I forgot to put it on the initial post above. It was 30.8 and this was taken before I started treatment.

don't count on ZMA to do much except help you sleep.