Steroids and Antipsychotics/Mental health

[Kolossal]

Hello I'm looking for some information and opinions that i cant find anywhere on the internet. Apart from don't do it.

I'm 30 5'5" 160lbs 14%bf and started out at around 130lbs. Iv been lifting for 7 years.

I have had psychosis in the past caused by recreational drug use in my teens and early 20s. A thing i haven't gone back to after getting well. I have been totally well for 4 years with no relapses while taking 300mgs a day of Seroquel (Quetiapine).

Surely there must be a way for me to take a small dose of say test to start with to see how i tolerate it mentally? I don't like what iv read where people are basically saying don't even try it. It will not sit well with me to not even try when it could be possible for me to run a cycle. Even if i have to pay for a Dr. to over see the whole thing.

I was thinking of taking a PH called Androtest because it converts directly to test but is said to be a very light cycle. I can run it for 4 weeks, is very easy to change the dose on a daily basis and is out the the body very quickly (Needs to be taken every day).

From what iv read Prolactin is usally not a problem on Test because there is no way i can take a dopamine agonist as too high dopamine is what i take Quetiapine for.

I can up the dose of my Quetiapine on a temporay basis to control any problems i might be getting mentally.

I wont go ahead with any of this until i have spoken to my Dr. I'm also going to have some blood work done to see if my meds have caused me any problems that might compound while taking AAS.

 

[tury694]

I don't know anyone taking that class of medicine along with AAS. I know guys taking SSRI's and Benzo's but nothing for psychosis. I hope someone gives you a clear cut answer, but I doubt that test by itself could cause too many problems but it is much better to be cautious because your mental health is very important.

 

[Kolossal]

Thanks for the reply.

I'm definitely intending to be as cautious as possible. There's no way if when i'm on and see my thoughts getting bad i will carry on. I will just cut the cycle early and do a pct.

 

[tury694]

Thanks for the reply.

I'm definitely intending to be as cautious as possible. There's no way if when i'm on and see my thoughts getting bad i will carry on. I will just cut the cycle early and do a pct.

If you don't mind me asking, what is your actual diagnoses? Several people in my family suffer from schizophrenia on my dad's side and they take antipsychotics but none of them cycle. Is this what you have or do you have something completely different?

 

[Kolossal]

My diagnosis is just psychosis. Mainly paranoid delusional thinking and obsessive compulsive traits. If i can remember rightly.

 

[oldmusclemike]

Kolossal, I have been under psychiatric care off and on (more on than off) since 1975. I have been involved with AAS since early 80' and that's a long time and experience. I have ben on psychotropic medicine since 75'. I am a recovering drug addict and clean n sober for over 3 years. I've done it all coke in 3 forms, LSD, Heroin and just everything. I was an original hippy so I started when I was 14 yrs. hence all of my drug misuse has been over the top to say the least.I tell these things just for you to know I AM QUALIFIED to speak on this topic.

You didn't speak of your diagnosis I don't think So I am curious. I suffer from manic depressive psychosis and borderline personality psychosis.

Now to the point. AAS, much to some people's disbelief can in many people be detrimental to there psyche. Test will make you more aggressive in your workouts as many attest and as I have witnessed so this can be also driving the normal aggressive behavior of some people.

AAS can and will enhance tempers in some. If you are prone to anger, temper and just out of control behavior AAS will probably exacerbate this. I have seen this and have experienced it. I have hurt people on and off AAS, but while on cycle I get into that off the wall temper and aggression much more. More frequently and MUCH MORE intense and over the top, way over. I've been cuffed and arrested. I won't go into all of my experiences but I been there and seen it in many others.

OP I owned a BB gym from 87 -90 until I bankrupted it in 91' due to drugs alcohol and crazy behavior to say the least. I have seen it in many, many young guys... the aggression and violence.

So let me attest tell you this, do it if you dare but I don't recommend it if you are prone to the behavior I spoke of. As far as a doctor supervising you, forget that. The responsibility and liability will keep all professionals and MD's out of your trial. Think about the ramifications to him or her.

Remember this, steroids are a drug that will alter not only your metabolism but also your state of mind. Being a drug that can and will be fun can and is addictive. I KNOW THIS FIRST HAND. If you think you can experiment and stop because of the facts that you are experiencing unwanted sides, well... you answer that being you are a recovering addict yourself as you just testified I so many words.

I'll close with this, it is dangerous and as like all addictive substances you don't want to start. I will predict that any addict that starts steroids will fall under the strong possibility of the drug leading you on to irresponsible behavior at some time. I / we sometime don't think until after the damage is done. Then what? If you are on Seroquel you are on serious medication. I have run the gamut of meds since 87'
Been there done that....... oldmusclemike

 

[tury694]

^^^^^Holy shit oldmusclemike spitting very useful knowledge^^^^^
Listen to the things this guy has to say OP as he has been around this stuff for awhile and seems to understand what steroids can do to mental health.

 

[oldmusclemike]

My diagnosis is just psychosis. Mainly paranoid delusional thinking and obsessive compulsive traits. If i can remember rightly.

You need to understand the word psychosis. Look it up. Psychosis is not you diagnosis. You have a psychosis ... what kind or kinds. AND with that you have a disorder, what kind doesn't really matter, your mind has a chemical imbalance. Did you hear that CHEMICAL and or DRUG .

 

[Kolossal]

Kolossal, I have been under psychiatric care off and on (more on than off) since 1975. I have been involved with AAS since early 80' and that's a long time and experience. I have ben on psychotropic medicine since 75'. I am a recovering drug addict and clean n sober for over 3 years. I've done it all coke in 3 forms, LSD, Heroin and just everything. I was an original hippy so I started when I was 14 yrs. hence all of my drug misuse has been over the top to say the least.I tell these things just for you to know I AM QUALIFIED to speak on this topic.

You didn't speak of your diagnosis I don't think So I am curious. I suffer from manic depressive psychosis and borderline personality psychosis.

Now to the point. AAS, much to some people's disbelief can in many people be detrimental to there psyche. Test will make you more aggressive in your workouts as many attest and as I have witnessed so this can be also driving the normal aggressive behavior of some people.

AAS can and will enhance tempers in some. If you are prone to anger, temper and just out of control behavior AAS will probably exacerbate this. I have seen this and have experienced it. I have hurt people on and off AAS, but while on cycle I get into that off the wall temper and aggression much more. More frequently and MUCH MORE intense and over the top, way over. I've been cuffed and arrested. I won't go into all of my experiences but I been there and seen it in many others.

OP I owned a BB gym from 87 -90 until I bankrupted it in 91' due to drugs alcohol and crazy behavior to say the least. I have seen it in many, many young guys... the aggression and violence.

So let me attest tell you this, do it if you dare but I don't recommend it if you are prone to the behavior I spoke of. As far as a doctor supervising you, forget that. The responsibility and liability will keep all professionals and MD's out of your trial. Think about the ramifications to him or her.

Remember this, steroids are a drug that will alter not only your metabolism but also your state of mind. Being a drug that can and will be fun can and is addictive. I KNOW THIS FIRST HAND. If you think you can experiment and stop because of the facts that you are experiencing unwanted sides, well... you answer that being you are a recovering addict yourself as you just testified I so many words.

I'll close with this, it is dangerous and as like all addictive substances you don't want to start. I will predict that any addict that starts steroids will fall under the strong possibility of the drug leading you on to irresponsible behavior at some time. I / we sometime don't think until after the damage is done. Then what? If you are on Seroquel you are on serious medication. I have run the gamut of meds since 87'
Been there done that....... oldmusclemike

I wouldn't of considered myself a drug addict but i could be by others opinions. I just kinda used in social places such as clubs and Raves, never on my own. I took all the party drugs but never heroin or crack. I enjoyed it but never needed it. At this point in my life i rarely even drink.

I do sometimes have a temper but have never hit or attacked anybody. I'm more likely to just walk away if anybody tries to argue or cause trouble.

Its a shame the situation is just try and see or forget about it. I'm hoping i can get more info on this before i make a decision.

Thanks Mike for your honesty.

 

[Kolossal]

You need to understand the word psychosis. Look it up. Psychosis is not you diagnosis. You have a psychosis ... what kind or kinds. AND with that you have a disorder, what kind doesn't really matter, your mind has a chemical imbalance. Did you hear that CHEMICAL and or DRUG .

I think i remember it said acute psychotic disorder on my file. Which cant be true as iv been on these meds for nearly 5 years. All my Psychiatrists have tole me is, i have psychosis but nothing more.

Yes obviously my brain had a chemical imbalance. I have never had any test. They said i had too high dopermine which is the cause most of the disorders like this.

All they do here in the UK is listen to your symptoms, prescribe a drug and see how it goes.

 

[oldmusclemike]

I think i remember it said acute psychotic disorder on my file. Which cant be true as iv been on these meds for nearly 5 years. All my Psychiatrists have tole me is, i have psychosis but nothing more.

Yes obviously my brain had a chemical imbalance. I have never had any test. They said i had too high dopermine which is the cause most of the disorders like this.

All they do here in the UK is listen to your symptoms, prescribe a drug and see how it goes.

First see this definition to get your understanding as to what I've said about knowledge of what is you psychosis.
Psychosis | Define Psychosis at Dictionary.com. psychoses..
A mental disorder characterized by symptoms, such as delusions or hallucinations, that indicate impaired contact with reality.

As I asked what are your symptoms. To understand better what steroids will do or how they might affect you and your acute psychosis you must understand your disorder at least a little.
This might help in understanding whether you are more PRONE (operative word) to unwanted emotions such as temper, amount of anger and the quickness to react in certain situations. IE: when I explode I have little to NO seconds between the action and the reaction. Then my aggression runs rampant with a blink of an eye so I get over the top before anyone and or I myself realize I***8217;m way out there. This can be violence both verbal and physical. Please note I am an extreme case. Unfortunately I have hurt people and don***8217;t remember all the detail or how extreme. Steroids can possibly throw some people (prone) out of control if triggered.

Ergo why I mentioned what specifically is your disorder (Psychosis). Again it will help your elevation or diminished caution and signs as to how to get help and or don***8217;t do it. Some close friend that you see regularly can caution you when and if you are being negatively affected.


Highlighted, you are dead wrong about this. I have been on meds as I said since 75' We have changed meds so many time to get it right as to tolerance build up and or my changing degrees of all my symptoms. By the way many, more than not, are NOT curable but become arrested to a DEGREE. They are managed. They can go up or down, fade away and come back.

Now also understand the serotonin levels play more of a roll for most Psychotic behavior. Dopamine is prevalent in schizophrenia. So I am puzzled as to what you are saying and what you have been told. I'm not saying I AM RIGHT or KNOW MORE but so many doctors don't know EXACTLY what they are talking about with this unless they have had deep trained in this field. Careful with the psychologists as apposed to the MD's , Psychiatrists.

I will close with this. Steroids can possibly affect you psyche in an negative way. You can be more prone as I said SO the understanding of yourself and the details of your disorder can tell you more the answer you are looking for. But Yes to the main Q's . Can it happen.

Sorry to the form if I took us off topic. I'm not a doctor and the Q's were more about steroids. Good luck man

 

[Kolossal]

First see this definition to get your understanding as to what I've said about knowledge of what is you psychosis.
Psychosis | Define Psychosis at Dictionary.com. psychoses..
A mental disorder characterized by symptoms, such as delusions or hallucinations, that indicate impaired contact with reality.

As I asked what are your symptoms. To understand better what steroids will do or how they might affect you and your acute psychosis you must understand your disorder at least a little.
This might help in understanding whether you are more PRONE (operative word) to unwanted emotions such as temper, amount of anger and the quickness to react in certain situations. IE: when I explode I have little to NO seconds between the action and the reaction. Then my aggression runs rampant with a blink of an eye so I get over the top before anyone and or I myself realize I***8217;m way out there. This can be violence both verbal and physical. Please note I am an extreme case. Unfortunately I have hurt people and don***8217;t remember all the detail or how extreme. Steroids can possibly throw some people (prone) out of control if triggered.

Ergo why I mentioned what specifically is your disorder (Psychosis). Again it will help your elevation or diminished caution and signs as to how to get help and or don***8217;t do it. Some close friend that you see regularly can caution you when and if you are being negatively affected.


Highlighted, you are dead wrong about this. I have been on meds as I said since 75' We have changed meds so many time to get it right as to tolerance build up and or my changing degrees of all my symptoms. By the way many, more than not, are NOT curable but become arrested to a DEGREE. They are managed. They can go up or down, fade away and come back.

Now also understand the serotonin levels play more of a roll for most Psychotic behavior. Dopamine is prevalent in schizophrenia. So I am puzzled as to what you are saying and what you have been told. I'm not saying I AM RIGHT or KNOW MORE but so many doctors don't know EXACTLY what they are talking about with this unless they have had deep trained in this field. Careful with the psychologists as apposed to the MD's , Psychiatrists.

I will close with this. Steroids can possibly affect you psyche in an negative way. You can be more prone as I said SO the understanding of yourself and the details of your disorder can tell you more the answer you are looking for. But Yes to the main Q's . Can it happen.

Sorry to the form if I took us off topic. I'm not a doctor and the Q's were more about steroids. Good luck man

Maybe i haven't explained myself very well. I definitely have a good insight into how my mind works. I have been able to keep myself well for 4-5 years because i see the signs coming and can up my dose for a week or talk myself out of any incorrect thinking.

My symptoms were mainly paranoia and delusions about people around me. Such as thinking everyone hates me and all stand around talking about me. Every body knowing everything about me, even people iv never met on the street. Thinking people could hear my thoughts. Constantly seeing patterns in peoples behaviour to prove my delusional thinking. If anything happened like someone loosing their phone i would think they thought i stole it. To anyone that isn't white thinking i was racist and to gays thinking i was homophobic. Basically acting guilty even though i was inoccent with body language and facial expressions i wasn't totally control of. A voice in my head that talked on its own and was constantly trying to make me give my soul to the devil.

It was a horrible time in my life and it lasted way too long.

I to went through a phase of trying to find the right medication for me. I went though Olanzapine, Risperidone and Aripiprazole. All had sides i couldn't tolerate and made the voice in my head much worse. I described the voice almost like tourette syndrome forcing words/thoughts into my head and that made the psychiatrist prescribe Quetiapine (Seroquel) as its used for Tourettes sometimes.

My temper only really gets up in online games. It sounds silly but real problems i just don't get that mad. I try to think of a solution. I would say that there's not much chance of me being violent. I get more anxious about fighting even if i think i can win.

If i did go ahead with this i have my brother. He is the closest person to me and wouldn't have any problems telling me to stop and to be honest i would probably stop before it got to that stage cause i really understand what it's like to not have my mental health and it really sucks. I never want to go through that again.

It sounds like they didn't know exactly how to label my symptoms. Too high dopamine is the main cause of psychotic illnesses, serotonin is more depression and anxiety related illnesses.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antipsychotic

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Selective_serotonin_reuptake_inhibitor

I kinda just want to do it and see how it goes. I know i will regret it if i don't at least try. I really do have good insight into my mind and any triggers or the incorrect patterns i start to go into if i'm getting unwell. Usually acting guilty to things i haven't done is the first sign. So i can stop it right there.

Is there any other options like HGH or peptides that could give me a little boost i can look into?

Thanks again for taking the time to explain more.

 

[oldmusclemike]

Kolossal, I can't comment to your last Q in your last post. I think you have answered your initial Q's. And so you do know more details & symptoms.

If you don't have a bad temper or prone to verbal and physical violence you should be better off than your initial (mine as well) concerns.

Just understand that emotionally Steroids can play a big roll in your life. They can exacerbate the problems with psychoses'. If you are around this person very much he / she and they KNOW you, they can be a good safety net if you are honest with yourself and them.

Again I think we've exhausted these Q's and the answers so you should know how to handle this problem if it should arise. Only you can evaluate your tendency's to enhanced emotions. Thanks for reading and communicating back n forth. Now be safe n cool man.

 

[Kolossal]

Thanks Mike for letting me exactly what i need to be aware of if i do go ahead. Ill keep referring back to this if needed.

 

[GynoPuff]

Hello I'm looking for some information and opinions that i cant find anywhere on the internet. Apart from don't do it.

I'm 30 5'5" 160lbs 14%bf and started out at around 130lbs. Iv been lifting for 7 years.

I have had psychosis in the past caused by recreational drug use in my teens and early 20s. A thing i haven't gone back to after getting well. I have been totally well for 4 years with no relapses while taking 300mgs a day of Seroquel (Quetiapine).

Surely there must be a way for me to take a small dose of say test to start with to see how i tolerate it mentally? I don't like what iv read where people are basically saying don't even try it. It will not sit well with me to not even try when it could be possible for me to run a cycle. Even if i have to pay for a Dr. to over see the whole thing.

I was thinking of taking a PH called Androtest because it converts directly to test but is said to be a very light cycle. I can run it for 4 weeks, is very easy to change the dose on a daily basis and is out the the body very quickly (Needs to be taken every day).

From what iv read Prolactin is usally not a problem on Test because there is no way i can take a dopamine agonist as too high dopamine is what i take Quetiapine for.

I can up the dose of my Quetiapine on a temporay basis to control any problems i might be getting mentally.

I wont go ahead with any of this until i have spoken to my Dr. I'm also going to have some blood work done to see if my meds have caused me any problems that might compound while taking AAS.

I use to be on 300mg sq as well as well as many other ssris and anti depression meds caused by weed mushrooms coke the whole 9 yeards in my teens I have been well about to get my 1 year soberity. My advice to you dude is to get off the sq it will mess you up if you are on nothing after about 6 months you will go back to normal. You will feel crazy coming off the seriquel and your doc may say O THATS BECAUSE YOUR PHYCOTIC AND YOUR NOT ON YOUR MEDS its all bs you will feel bad coming off because its called withdrawl symptoms. I was worred about the same thing with test but if you use an ai like aroma with it you will be fine. I feel more mentally stable on test then I do not on test. My advice to you man since we have the SAME background is to get off the seriquel first completely before you do anything. You do not know how that stuff will react with nolva clomid or an ai we all know test wont effect it. Serquiel is a HORRABLE drug it was like a dark cloud over my head all these mental disorders are bs in my opinion I was told I had all these things and my problem after drugs was listening to docs about my mind once I cut the docs off stoped all the meds I went back to normal like I was before I ever started drugs as a kid.

 

[Kolossal]

Hi Gynopuff. Unfortunatley I dont think its possible for me to stop the Seroquel. I hadn't taken any drugs for 4 years before i got diagnosed. I'm psychotic unmedicated and probably will be for the rest of my life. Seroquel saved me. I wouldnt be able to have a normal life without it. I wouldnt be able to work, have friends or even leave the house much.

I have thought about how Seroquel might cause problems with the other drugs used while using AAS. Seroquel has been used to help people sleep while taking Nolva so that should be safe. From what iv found so far Arimidex looks safe to.

I think i'm going to have to buy a few AIs and Nolva/clomid before i even start. So if i run into any problems i can just switch it. Androtest is a pretty weak PH from what iv read so far with people even saying OTC AIs and PCT will be fine. Which i don't really like the sound of because everywhere i read i see "get a SERM". So i'l probably buy some of those to just so all of my bases are covered.

On this board it seems like Seroquel is used as a sleep aim by quite a few members so i will probably make another thread asking if anyone has run into any problems with AIs, PCT and Seroquel.

 

[oldmusclemike]

I use to be on 300mg sq as well as well as many other ssris and anti depression meds caused by weed mushrooms coke the whole 9 yeards in my teens I have been well about to get my 1 year soberity. My advice to you dude is to get off the sq it will mess you up if you are on nothing after about 6 months you will go back to normal. You will feel crazy coming off the seriquel and your doc may say O THATS BECAUSE YOUR PHYCOTIC AND YOUR NOT ON YOUR MEDS its all bs you will feel bad coming off because its called withdrawl symptoms. I was worred about the same thing with test but if you use an ai like aroma with it you will be fine. I feel more mentally stable on test then I do not on test. My advice to you man since we have the SAME background is to get off the seriquel first completely before you do anything. You do not know how that stuff will react with nolva clomid or an ai we all know test wont effect it. Serquiel is a HORRABLE drug it was like a dark cloud over my head all these mental disorders are bs in my opinion I was told I had all these things and my problem after drugs was listening to docs about my mind once I cut the docs off stoped all the meds I went back to normal like I was before I ever started drugs as a kid.

WHAT, WHAT???

Man don't ever ell a man to stop his meds the doctor has him on for a psychosis. NEVER. What affects you one way does some on different. These meds are not to be experimented with, stopped or started with out a doctors supervision.

Read my profile and my posts I've been on so many different meds due to the testing of a combination and it's effectiveness for me at one juncture and or another. A psychosis will usually change as one's life changes. The environment someone is in socially can have an affect and thus a change in dose and or meds and the combos. By the way Seroquel was a savior at one time in my life and things changed and I grew to hate it and we SLOWELY wined me and transferred me to something else.

Prozac is the only med I've managed to stay with since 1987 and all the rest changed over time or were initially no good.

NOW this is not the forum or place to give this level and or amount of advice from me or anyone. OP has been given enough info to sort out his original Q's. Lets not continue to kick the horse up to confusion and loose perspective of what our responsibility to each other, keeping in mind our qualifications when we speak.

 

[oldmusclemike]

My opinion through 35 years of first hand experience. Never suggest or persuade a person to change or STOP his/her psychotropic medication and also don't tell a depressed or a bipolar person to JUST get over it. Yea JUST straighten up and stop the medicine that's making you crazy.......

You may never see that person alive again. End of thread for me

 

[Jason Reynolds]

hi Kolossal congratulation for being clean for four years without relapse. i have the same problem and because of that I've been to Drug Help Recovery Treatment and did some therapy. but now i think i till have a problem and im searching through the internet and end up here. i learned lot's of information to you guys thank you.

 

[CYP11A1]

My opinion through 35 years of first hand experience. Never suggest or persuade a person to change or STOP his/her psychotropic medication and also don't tell a depressed or a bipolar person to JUST get over it. Yea JUST straighten up and stop the medicine that's making you crazy.......

You may never see that person alive again. End of thread for me

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