Test cyp, tren ace, winny cycle questions

[ra6504]

Check this out...

5'9 185 lbs
Body fat 14-17%
35 years old
4 cycles completed

Goals = reduce body fat get ripped and any extra lean muscle I put on will be a bonus. If I end at 193 lean goal achieved.

My gear is in:

Test cyp 200mg/ml (3) 10 ml vials total
Trenbolone ace 75 mg/ml (3) 10 ml vials total
Winny 10 mg tabs (100) tabs total
Nolvadex 20 mg tabs (30) tabs total

Cycle plan:

Test cyp 200 mg (2x) per week mon/thurs weeks 1-12
Tren ace 75 mg EOD weeks 1-10
Winstrol 50 mg ED (20) days weeks 10-12
Nolvadex 40 mg days 1-10 20 mg days 10-20 3rd week after last injection


My concern is that I have ran previous cycles..(1. test e 2. Sustanon/deca 3. Tren/winny 4. Tren/winny) last cycle was 8 years ago. I never ran AI's or post cycle therapy (pct) with any of them. Admittingly I never really new what I was doing. So I got strength gains and size but half assed everytime.

I don't want to do that again. I have my diet down and will be at maintenance calories until week six then cutting. Will end in caloric deficit. My concerns are:
1. maybe I'm running this too long? Up dosage and drop to 8 weeks?
2. Need to wait and get arimidex and hcg? I didn't have really bad sides previously except on the sust/deca cycle horrible sides! But I'm older so should I risk it without these built into my cycle? These are low doses?
3. Maybe run test cyp 8 weeks by itself with Winstrol (winny) last 4 and nova. Then get more test cyp and run this cycle later?

I appreciate any advice and opinions on how you would cycle this gear. Thanks guys!

 

[Nosy Parker]

I'll just address your concerns in order:

1. A 12 week cycle is pretty standard, most range from 10 to 16 weeks. If anything, this being your 4th cycle, I would up the dose of test c and or extend your cycle. You are going to shut down regardless, so there is no point in cutting it short.

2. Personal preference. There are many here with closed minds that cling to the idea that you need Aromatase inhibitor (AI) in a cycle. That being said, it isn't a bad idea, however it IS NOT NECESSARY. AIs are harsh on HDL and as a result more and more professional bodybuilders have been avoiding them in consideration of their long tern cardiovascular health. If you have run four cycle and the oestrogen related side effects were manageable, and you didn't have gyno issues, then in my opinion it would not be worth adding. This is a cost benefit analysis and such is subject to personal opinion regardless to what anyone says. That being said, if you do have gyno issues, or oestrogen sides are very pronounced Aromatase inhibitor (AI) can be very necessary! Considering the fact that you are cutting and the nature of oestrogen, I would probably recommend a low dose of Arim. As for the hCG again it may very well be a good idea, but it is not necessary. Although at the very least adding Clomid imo is very necessary...your post cycle therapy (pct) is fit for a 4 week PH cycle....

3. Forget any cycle until you address your post cycle therapy (pct). My recommendation would be Dr. Michael Scally's "HPGA Normalization Protocol", a 45 day protocol which goes as such

hCG 2000iu EOD Days: 1-20
Clomid 100mg Days: 1-30
Nolvadex 40mg Days: 1-45

This protocol was shown to restore the androgen levels in 19 health males taking heavily suppressive doses of Test C and Deca for 12 weeks in the 45 day period. "Scally's "HPGA Normalization Protocol" ....is perhaps the most trusted and clinically supported post-cycle therapy program presently available."(William Llewellyn author of ANABOLICS).

Best,
Parker.

 

[josh30013]

don't start your tren till week 2or3. since your using a longer ester test you want the test to be kicked in before you you start that tren. and why such a low dose of tren and test?

 

[ra6504]

I,ve ordered arimidex and clomid and more nolvadex. Just didn't want to wait for it and tried to talk myself into starting without it. No hcg though I think I'm going to go ahead and order as well. Thanks for the info!

 

[ra6504]

My goals are pretty small so I'm trying to keep the doses low and get the most quality lean muscle I can without throwing on a lot more weight. "Looking for the so called 'natural bodybuilder' look as opposed to just muscle mass that I chased in my twenties. If I gain 8lbs lean then I'm happy. That's why my doses seem low and they are. But should be sufficient to achieve what I'm looking for....?
Thanks! Will take the advise on the tren and kick it in at 3weeks.

 

[Nosy Parker]

I,ve ordered arimidex and clomid and more nolvadex. Just didn't want to wait for it and tried to talk myself into starting without it. No hcg though I think I'm going to go ahead and order as well. Thanks for the info!

Glad to hear it man and I hear you on that. Sometimes the sick puppy comes out and you just can't wait to pin.

If you don't have a dose already in mind for the Arimidex I would recommend .25mg per per aromatizing substance and then adjust from there. Looking at your cycle Tren doesn't aromatize and Stanozolol being a DHT derived aas doesn't either. Thus I would recommend starting at .25mg daily and adjusting from there. If oestrogen sides are too pronounced up the dose, if you are feeling tired, depressed, or lethargic then lower the dose.

Best,
Parker.

 

[Nosy Parker]

My goals are pretty small so I'm trying to keep the doses low and get the most quality lean muscle I can without throwing on a lot more weight. "Looking for the so called 'natural bodybuilder' look as opposed to just muscle mass that I chased in my twenties. If I gain 8lbs lean then I'm happy. That's why my doses seem low and they are. But should be sufficient to achieve what I'm looking for....?
Thanks! Will take the advise on the tren and kick it in at 3weeks.

Tren should never be run without test, that's about all there is to say. Waiting two or three weeks to begin is over-kill imo. The reason why you shouldn't run Tren alone is because it is suppressive, but does not fully replace the function of test in your system. That being said, if it is a concern to you I would just frontload your test at 2x your running dose and start the tren up at the same time.

Best,
Parker.