jarbulldog said:
so you are saying that for deca you do not need the ba and bb? and for enanthate you onlt need the oil? are the sticky conversions at the top of this forum wrong then?
Yup they are. They will work but you are using some wasted steps. Its like taking a shower with a rain coat on. I will explain it one more time. deca, eq, enan, cyp and a few others are soluble in vegetable oil. so if its soluble in oil it needs no solvent. Now cyp is the one fickle one out of the bunch, as any of you know who use it. I have had cyp to hold at 400mg/ml with no solvent and had it crash at 200mg/ml with 5%ba and 10% bb. Go figure, same batch of powder too. its still doable just need to heat till it clears before administration. OK with that being said, BA is an antimicrobial and not a sterilizing agent. There is a huge difference. antimicrobials can destroy some bacteria (some g+ but no g-) but are mainly used to prevent further growth. BA is a week killer of bacteria but great at inhibiting growth of further induced bacteria into oily solutions, which can happen. This technically makes it a preservative and not a sterilization agent. If you like there is no prob with adding 2-3% BA to a solution as a preservative. Its not gonna hurt anything and there is always the possibilty of bacteria being intrduced into your vial
As far as bb goes there is no reason at all to use it with hormones that are soluble in oil, as it has no sterilization properties at all. BB is used when a hormone requires more than 10% solvent. Short esters and no esters in particular and some of the PHs. anything over 10% ba may be excruciating esp if it is a high mg/ml concentration.
BA is a great water soluble solvent while BB is insoluble in water but nonetheless a good solvent esp in conjunction with BA. BB has a tendency to stay at inject site longer than BA obviously so the depots will be less discomforting.
I have posted a couple of articles on this board describing in detail the GMP for oily solutions and aqueous solutions as they differ. it plainly states in the document that oily solutions require little or no antimicrobial as they are highly ineffective. Now for aqueous solutions that is a different ball game. Antimicrobials in conjunction with autoclaving at 120-125c for 60 minutes will produce a sterile solution/suspension.
Now for one more note on suspensions and solutions. There seems to be some confusion here as well. I have seen posters saying that they need to suspend enan in oil or deca in oil. This is an impossibility. You cannot suspend oil soluble hormones in oil. They will always be a solution. NE hormones are normally suspended in either water or oil. However some can be made to solutions with the right carrier. IE Winstrol (winny) can be made into a solution or a suspension. In a suspension if product sits long enough the hormone will separate from the oil/water. In a solution it will not separate if you have followed the procedure to the letter.
Hope this cleared some questions up for some of you guys.
