Test Tren cycle major questions

[Deerizzle]

Hey fellas,

Need some major advice. Currently on week 3 of a Test cyp/Tren ace run and I'm at a loss on what in the world is going on. First let me start, I have been on TRT for a year now. My weekly TRT therapy goes as follows:

Test Cyp E3D 200mg/week
HCG E3D 500iu/week
Arimidex 1mg tab E3D
Finasteride 1mg E3D

I started my cycle by bumping up my test to 400mg/week. Started Tren ace 50mg ED and over two weeks bumped to 60mg ED. I kept running the HCG, Adex, and fina the same protocol. I know fina wont help Tren but figured it would combat some sides of elevated test. For the first week and a half I felt great. Sex drive through the roof, vascularity popping, strength increasing, and appetite like crazy. Then all of a sudden itchy, puffy nipples started, depression, loss of appetite, insomnia, night sweat, and bloat. I have run a Tren/test cycle before pre-TRT at the same doseage with no sides. (This is my 3rd cycle 6'1 205) So I decided to drop test back to normal 200mg/wk and keep Tren the same to reduce sides as this type of dosing seems to be the norm these days. As well as that, I also tried to aggressively treat what I thought was high E2 by increasing my Adex from 1mg E3D to EOD. Over the course of 5 days my sex drive plummeted, no morning/night wood, I can get it up but it's a journey, depression, extreme lethargy, bloating and facial bloat, gyno symptoms increased, dry lips, mood swings, foggy brain, feeling flat, crappy workouts, want to pass out after eating, and no motivation. As you can see I have symptoms of both high E2 and low E2. In a last ditch effort I took .5mg Adex following 1mg Adex the day before. Within 5 hours I couldn't get hard at all. I came to the conclusion I completely nuked my estro.

So I stopped taking Adex immediately. I also stopped taking finasteride immediately. It's been 5 days since last dose of both. I'm hoping my estro will rise if that's the case. Bloating has been better, gyno has been better, but as far as ED and libido issues, still no luck. I am getting half chubs for morning/night wood now but during the day getting it up is still difficult and won't stay up.

I understand there are a lot of possible factors here like low/high estro, finasteride, progesterone/prolactin, SBGH,and low T. obviously the best answer is blood work, but I'm not ready to request blood work from my doc when Tren is still in my system and major hormone imbalance. He would not be happy with me adding a compound to my therapy.

What do you guys think? Stay off Adex and see what happens? Drop the Tren? Up the test?

Thanks

 

[Megatron28]

I am thinking this isn't so complicated. You doubled your test dosage but you left your AI dosage the same as when you were on TRT. I am guessing that at the dosage of AI you are taking for TRT that you aromatize a lot which points to a high body fat percentage. You also threw in Tren which competes with your other steroids to be bound by SHBG. This means more E2 is free (unbound) all things being equal.

Then you panicked and crashed your E2 by going way overboard with the AI.

Finally you didn't run a Dopamine Agonist which means your Prolactin spiked in the presence of high E2 and a 19nor.

Takeaway ---> You failed to manage Estradiol and Prolactin. You need to get your E2 management under control before you mess around with something like Tren and you have to at least have a DA on hand -- I personally prefer just running the DA from Day 1 when I am on a 19nor.

 

[oldmusclemike]

I am thinking this isn't so complicated. You doubled your test dosage but you left your AI dosage the same as when you were on TRT. I am guessing that at the dosage of AI you are taking for TRT that you aromatize a lot which points to a high body fat percentage. You also threw in Tren which competes with your other steroids to be bound by SHBG. This means more E2 is free (unbound) all things being equal.

Then you panicked and crashed your E2 by going way overboard with the AI.

Finally you didn't run a Dopamine Agonist which means your Prolactin spiked in the presence of high E2 and a 19nor.

Takeaway ---> You failed to manage Estradiol and Prolactin. You need to get your E2 management under control before you mess around with something like Tren and you have to at least have a DA on hand -- I personally prefer just running the DA from Day 1 when I am on a 19nor.

Great summary now let me add to you knowledge: I have this saved on my word so I can just copy paste...:

Listen Tren and Deca as stated do not convert to Estrogen but the 19nor by their nature cause the rise in progestins. Progesterone increases because too many receptors are activated by progestin. Progestins are compounds that act on these receptors, such as Trenbolone and nandrolone or any 19-nor steroid. This is what causes progesterone to increase and why you see the increase when these steroids are introduced. You never need protection with other steroids because others are not progestins so we control our Estradiol. Tren is of progestin nature.

Now since the progesterone is increased it directly stimulates estrogenic activity and in return we have the sides of too high E2. The best way then you see is back to control the Estrogen. We know that high estrogen will increase prolactin.
'
See we don't get Gyno and other sides from 19nor because of no aromatizing. Then we are left with using something like Cialis for ED and Caber to control the prolactin for orgasms.

IMOP and for me I need to have more than just normal BW mid cycle using Deca because the prolactin is so sensitive to the E2 number. With that said the number is different for everyone.
So as told you didn't just combat your prolactin with some Caber and Cialis, panicked and started to go crazy grasping at everything but what would of been an easy remedy IMOP. AND that would have been taking care of a few sides that are most prevalent and happen to be attacked sometimes no matter how tight you monitor your E2.

AI being the first line but due to my above it can happen anyway. That's been my experience with Deca.

 

[Teutonic]

Anyone could not really have anything to add to these seasoned vet s Cap...!

The Human body is a miracle and wonderously forgiving machine with an uncanny ability to unfuck what we do to it. U were cruising on trt AND as Master and Commander Mega pointed out you increased test x 2 AND then added the strongest AAS made available, and a 19 nor to boot. AND then dropped the ball. Ai stayed static, proloactins having a field day on your heads, both big and little but fret not !

I know going from a 19 year old sex god to a cubby on occasion is alarming (god do I NOT MISS those roller e2/prolact coaster rides ) but a good rule of thumb for me is =
If I arrived at a place that s unacceptable via drug s, both party and hormonal, give urself double the time it took you to fuck ur self up to un fuck urself. AAS user s are usually not patient (although Mega s a Saint ) peep s but in time, I m 53 soon we learn we have to become patient for GOOD THINGS happen all on their own if given time..

Return to rx med s. Wait. Let your body claw back to it s new" trt" homeostasis and you will be right as rain. Don t think about lil Richard ( ur dick ). Undo stress and to much attention will keep him ostracized where as not being obsessive and constantly wondering " Is it hard...enough ?" will kill any chances of same. Soon u2 will once again rejoice in a happy working "GET SUM' relationship.

 

[Deerizzle]

I appreciate the feedback. I'm aware that my Adex is a high dose for normal TRT as I was already experiencing mild sides of low estro. I kept Adex doseage the same thinking it would raise my already low E2 levels to just about the sweet spot. I didn't combat with a DA because I believed the first line therapy for stopping the estro/prolactin increase was my AI. Well I thought wrong and dropped the ball.

Would you suggest staying off the AI for a couple more days to let my estro recover and then start on a smaller dose of Adex?

 

[Megatron28]

Great summary now let me add to you knowledge: I have this saved on my word so I can just copy paste...:

Listen Tren and Deca as stated do not convert to Estrogen but the 19nor by their nature cause the rise in progestins. Progesterone increases because too many receptors are activated by progestin. Progestins are compounds that act on these receptors, such as Trenbolone and nandrolone or any 19-nor steroid. This is what causes progesterone to increase and why you see the increase when these steroids are introduced. You never need protection with other steroids because others are not progestins so we control our Estradiol. Tren is of progestin nature.

Now since the progesterone is increased it directly stimulates estrogenic activity and in return we have the sides of too high E2. The best way then you see is back to control the Estrogen. We know that high estrogen will increase prolactin.
'
See we don't get Gyno and other sides from 19nor because of no aromatizing. Then we are left with using something like Cialis for ED and Caber to control the prolactin for orgasms.

IMOP and for me I need to have more than just normal BW mid cycle using Deca because the prolactin is so sensitive to the E2 number. With that said the number is different for everyone.
So as told you didn't just combat your prolactin with some Caber and Cialis, panicked and started to go crazy grasping at everything but what would of been an easy remedy IMOP. AND that would have been taking care of a few sides that are most prevalent and happen to be attacked sometimes no matter how tight you monitor your E2.

AI being the first line but due to my above it can happen anyway. That's been my experience with Deca.

Just wanted to clarify that Deca (Nandrolone) does actually aromatize into estrogen.

 

[oldmusclemike]

Just wanted to clarify that Deca (Nandrolone) does actually aromatize into estrogen.

Thanks respectfully Meg for the clarification.

Here's my understanding, Deca does not convert to Estrogen but the 19nor by their nature cause the rise in progestins. Progesterone increases because too many receptors are activated by progestin.

Hence, since the progesterone is increased it directly stimulates estrogenic activity and in return we have the sides of too high E2. Straight copy from my post ^^^

Am I off or did I not state it correctly ? Question only here Meg

 

[Cwary]

Thanks respectfully Meg for the clarification.

Here's my understanding, Deca does not convert to Estrogen but the 19nor by their nature cause the rise in progestins. Progesterone increases because too many receptors are activated by progestin.

Hence, since the progesterone is increased it directly stimulates estrogenic activity and in return we have the sides of too high E2. Straight copy from my post ^^^

Am I off or did I not state it correctly ? Question only here Meg

Conversion rate is very low. I think it's around 20 percent. Hope this helps.

 

[Deerizzle]

I appreciate the feedback. I'm aware that my Adex is a high dose for normal TRT as I was already experiencing mild sides of low estro. I kept Adex doseage the same thinking it would raise my already low E2 levels to just about the sweet spot. I didn't combat with a DA because I believed the first line therapy for stopping the estro/prolactin increase was my AI. Well I thought wrong and dropped the ball.

Would you suggest staying off the AI for a couple more days to let my estro recover and then start on a smaller dose of Adex?

 

[Deerizzle]

I am thinking this isn't so complicated. You doubled your test dosage but you left your AI dosage the same as when you were on TRT. I am guessing that at the dosage of AI you are taking for TRT that you aromatize a lot which points to a high body fat percentage. You also threw in Tren which competes with your other steroids to be bound by SHBG. This means more E2 is free (unbound) all things being equal.

Then you panicked and crashed your E2 by going way overboard with the AI.

Finally you didn't run a Dopamine Agonist which means your Prolactin spiked in the presence of high E2 and a 19nor.

Takeaway ---> You failed to manage Estradiol and Prolactin. You need to get your E2 management under control before you mess around with something like Tren and you have to at least have a DA on hand -- I personally prefer just running the DA from Day 1 when I am on a 19nor.

I appreciate the feedback. I'm aware that my Adex is a high dose for normal TRT as I was already experiencing mild sides of low estro. I kept Adex doseage the same thinking it would raise my already low E2 levels to just about the sweet spot. I didn't combat with a DA because I believed the first line therapy for stopping the estro/prolactin increase was my AI. Well I thought wrong and dropped the ball.

Would you suggest staying off the AI for a couple more days to let my estro recover and then start on a smaller dose of Adex?

 

[Teutonic]

Drop the tren or address the prog w a DA.
How bout JUST doubling your test and then...next time...w ever...
I m a puss. I address increased side s w less extro. "stuff" and if something does not agree with my dick ? UNACCEPTABLE. For what ? To be the beast in line at Wal Mart w a limp dick???.
Unacceptable.
But that s me.

 

[49ER]

Fuck test.... Just wanted to get in on the convo

 

[soldier74]

I'll take increased prolactin for $500 Alex!!

 

[Megatron28]

I'll take increased prolactin for $500 Alex!!

Anal Bum Cover (An Album Cover) for $800 Trebeck! The Rapist (Therapist) for $400 Trebeck.

One of my favorite SNL skits.