I started taking test cyp 100 mg ew about 2.5 months ago. I felt amazing for the first 3 weeks, and then I just felt like crap. I had a blood test taken after a month on 100 mg and my tt was 522from 228. I made sure my estradiol was checked, and it was 31. My doc bumped my dosage to 100mg every 5 days and that helped me feel a little better, not much. I imagine he will bump it up to 200mg ew when I see him in two days, but I don't think it will help much. The only thing I can think of, which makes no sense, is that I started taking a small amount of thyroid medication the same time I started test and at about the time it really would have kicked in was when started feeling like crap. I don't take any Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) or an Aromatase inhibitor (AI). I guess my question is could it be possible that my thyroid medication is what caused me to crash? Or where else should I be looking, because I think my estradiol is probably alright? I want to stick with the test if I can feel like I originally did. If it doesn't get better than how I feel now I think that I would rather be off of it.
Therapy is not working anymore
- Thread starter Maynard
- Start date
Megatron28
Moderator
Maynard, you most likely have an estradiol problem since you are taking a decent amount of test and no Aromatase inhibitor (AI). I am guessing you got tested at your trough. Get tested again at your peak. You will probably see pretty high E2 numbers along with higher TT.
You could try injecting ever 3.5 days too. That helps even your levels out more which helps control E2 better. But you likely could still need an AI.
You could try injecting ever 3.5 days too. That helps even your levels out more which helps control E2 better. But you likely could still need an AI.
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halfwit
I like turtles.
Two things:
1. DIGGIN' the new avi!
2. You guys keep making me curious on what I'm missing out on with HCG. I'm aware of the DHEA/Pregnenolone components as well as a few others that tend to go to the wayside from a lack of an LH or LH-like signal; is there something else here at play that simply cannot be supplemented with outside HCG?
OP: I'd also like to add that many of the negatives that come from having low-T take awhile to reverse. I know many of us have a placebo-like effect after the first few injections, but start to want to know when the hormone is going to "kick in". It took me well over a year before I started to see the full realization of the benefits of testosterone replacement therapy.
My .02c
Edit: TOTALLY not discounting what Megatron has to say about estradiol either. You DEFINITELY want to stay on top of that pesky E2!
IMT staff
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Hey Half
Yes it does stimulate the pituitary, so the conversion of cholesterol into DHEA, TSH and Cortisol are actively stimulated or depressed by LH concentrations.
So that is a big part of it, even bigger though is Progesterone production that is depressed without HCG. For those that do not feel the benefits of Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) then you could always use progesterone directly.
I would only suggest progesterone in older men though, the negative to progesterone is it can inhibit DHT conversion, but Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) would actually stimulate DHT conversion.
This is why Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) is a better choice as long as the testes aren't burnt out
Hope this helps brother.
Yes it does stimulate the pituitary, so the conversion of cholesterol into DHEA, TSH and Cortisol are actively stimulated or depressed by LH concentrations.
So that is a big part of it, even bigger though is Progesterone production that is depressed without HCG. For those that do not feel the benefits of Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) then you could always use progesterone directly.
I would only suggest progesterone in older men though, the negative to progesterone is it can inhibit DHT conversion, but Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) would actually stimulate DHT conversion.
This is why Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) is a better choice as long as the testes aren't burnt out
Hope this helps brother.
halfwit
I like turtles.
Hey Half
Yes it does stimulate the pituitary, so the conversion of cholesterol into DHEA, TSH and Cortisol are actively stimulated or depressed by LH concentrations.
So that is a big part of it, even bigger though is Progesterone production that is depressed without HCG. For those that do not feel the benefits of Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) then you could always use progesterone directly.
I would only suggest progesterone in older men though, the negative to progesterone is it can inhibit DHT conversion, but Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) would actually stimulate DHT conversion.
This is why Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) is a better choice as long as the testes aren't burnt out
Hope this helps brother.
Damnit! I'm soooooooo close to pulling the trigger on Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) just to see if I can benefit from it. (I get the sleepies every so often that I am pretty sure is cortisol playing tag with my metabolism.) Once I'm done with school and have a disposable income worth mentioning, I'm soooooooooooo giving you guys a call - you can count on it.
Thanks for the quick reply! (Sorry for the potential thread hijack OP.
)Hey Half
Yes it does stimulate the pituitary, so the conversion of cholesterol into DHEA, TSH and Cortisol are actively stimulated or depressed by LH concentrations.
So that is a big part of it, even bigger though is Progesterone production that is depressed without HCG. For those that do not feel the benefits of Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) then you could always use progesterone directly.
I would only suggest progesterone in older men though, the negative to progesterone is it can inhibit DHT conversion, but Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) would actually stimulate DHT conversion.
This is why Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) is a better choice as long as the testes aren't burnt out
Hope this helps brother.
Todd, just trying to get a better understanding in the role of progesterone production with HCG. I've been on testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) for about 8 months now with no Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) or Aromatase inhibitor (AI). I do supplement with DHEA, pregnenolone and DIM though. For the hell of it, I had my progesterone tested last month along with my E2. Progesterone was towards the upper end of the range at 0.9 (0.2-1.4). So, would there really be any purpose to me ever using Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) if my progesterone, TSH, DHEA, and cortisol are all remaining the same as they were when baseline levels were taken before starting TRT?
IMT staff
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For some reason the stimulation of Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) gives people increased sex drive and gives you a good sense of well-being, most of the time. As for your progesterone maybe it would not help there, hopefully it would not elevate too much. I wonder if anything in the DIM or anything else you have taken has effected your PGR levels? You can also down regulate and up regulate the receptors for PGR so you have to take that into account. I actually think this occurs on Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) and why you need to take a break every 10 weeks or so, one study showed down regulation of PGR.
I don't know if it is too meaningful to compare DHEA, TSH and Cortisol levels to your baseline because you may or probably were suppressed before receiving treatment, if you were diagnosed with lowT
The only way to really know if it helps or it doesn't is to try it, and many men have claimed that Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) is the best hormone for men since testosterone. There is a reason for that, and it doesn't always line up on paper, although most of the time it should I have never been able to pin point the exact reason, although many of these reasons explained make sense. We know far too little about Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) in conjunction with testosterone therapy to claim that it is nailed down to an exact science, it is a fairly new application in terms of using it in conjunction with testosterone therapy.
It wasn't until a couple of years ago that it came widely know that Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) has a bi phasic pattern even though it was almost 10 years ago that it was written about, so I am sure there are many processes that are effected by partial or complete suppression that are brought back to life with HCG, many processes we are not even aware of yet I am sure.
I don't know if it is too meaningful to compare DHEA, TSH and Cortisol levels to your baseline because you may or probably were suppressed before receiving treatment, if you were diagnosed with lowT
The only way to really know if it helps or it doesn't is to try it, and many men have claimed that Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) is the best hormone for men since testosterone. There is a reason for that, and it doesn't always line up on paper, although most of the time it should
I have never been able to pin point the exact reason, although many of these reasons explained make sense. We know far too little about Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) in conjunction with testosterone therapy to claim that it is nailed down to an exact science, it is a fairly new application in terms of using it in conjunction with testosterone therapy.It wasn't until a couple of years ago that it came widely know that Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) has a bi phasic pattern even though it was almost 10 years ago that it was written about, so I am sure there are many processes that are effected by partial or complete suppression that are brought back to life with HCG, many processes we are not even aware of yet I am sure.
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IMT staff
Official Sponsor
Have you guys ever read this thread? It is a good one, some of the guys in it have been on testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) 20+ years
http://www.steroidology.com/forum/anabolic-steroid-forum/2525-understanding-roll-estrogen-progesterone-men.html#post27532
Here we are 10+ years later and do we really know a ton more than back then? Research lacks in this field because of the black cloud that has been attached to testosterone by the media over the years.
http://www.steroidology.com/forum/anabolic-steroid-forum/2525-understanding-roll-estrogen-progesterone-men.html#post27532
Here we are 10+ years later and do we really know a ton more than back then? Research lacks in this field because of the black cloud that has been attached to testosterone by the media over the years.
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HCG does nothing for me
I can feel nothing whatsoever from Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) vs no HCG. I have started and stopped it several times - no difference. Of course I have low SHBG, so I can't feel anything from the Test, either, and of course everyone is different. Other guys swear by Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) if it does not mess with the E2 too much.
I sincerely hope it works for you!
Damnit! I'm soooooooo close to pulling the trigger on Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) just to see if I can benefit from it. (I get the sleepies every so often that I am pretty sure is cortisol playing tag with my metabolism.) Once I'm done with school and have a disposable income worth mentioning, I'm soooooooooooo giving you guys a call - you can count on it.
Thanks for the quick reply! (Sorry for the potential thread hijack OP.
I can feel nothing whatsoever from Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) vs no HCG. I have started and stopped it several times - no difference. Of course I have low SHBG, so I can't feel anything from the Test, either, and of course everyone is different. Other guys swear by Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) if it does not mess with the E2 too much.
I sincerely hope it works for you!
SilverBackGorilla
I like bananas
Just curious, what makes you think that since you have low SHBG is a bad thing? From what I read It's a blessing. You have more free T since It's not binding to anything but you have to watch your E2 because it also has nothing to bind to.
halfwit
I like turtles.
Thanks for the insight! By the way, did you ever try the supraphysiological route some docs recommend for "hard cases"? I remember asking awhile back, don't remember if you did or not...
Low SHBG is no blessing
That is a common misconception. For guys that respond very favorably to Test, it is naturally hard to imagine that everyone else would not feel the same way, but guys with low SHBG generally feel no benefits from testosterone replacement therapy (TRT). I can literally feel nothing whatsoever from testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) and no, my E2 is not too high or too low. I feel the same as I did before starting, with the exception of perhaps a little more energy overall. I have no libido, cannot build any muscle or loose any fat. Th only reason I have not stopped is that now I am shut down and I would need to do a full PCT to get started again. I am about ready to do that anyway though, as all I have done for close to 3 years now on testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) is flush a ton of money down the drain and waste a ton of time . I have talked to the board sponsors, to Dr Crisler (one of the more famous testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) specialists) and probably spend hundreds of hours over the last few years researching this.
Do a Google search on low SHBG +TRT and you will find a subset of guys with low SHBG that have nothing but problems with testosterone replacement. Generally the "problem" is that testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) does nothing for them, even though a blood test may show good levels of test, E2, etc...SHBG is like everything else; Too high is bad, too low is bad.
That is a common misconception. For guys that respond very favorably to Test, it is naturally hard to imagine that everyone else would not feel the same way, but guys with low SHBG generally feel no benefits from testosterone replacement therapy (TRT). I can literally feel nothing whatsoever from testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) and no, my E2 is not too high or too low. I feel the same as I did before starting, with the exception of perhaps a little more energy overall. I have no libido, cannot build any muscle or loose any fat. Th only reason I have not stopped is that now I am shut down and I would need to do a full PCT to get started again. I am about ready to do that anyway though, as all I have done for close to 3 years now on testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) is flush a ton of money down the drain and waste a ton of time . I have talked to the board sponsors, to Dr Crisler (one of the more famous testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) specialists) and probably spend hundreds of hours over the last few years researching this.
Do a Google search on low SHBG +TRT and you will find a subset of guys with low SHBG that have nothing but problems with testosterone replacement. Generally the "problem" is that testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) does nothing for them, even though a blood test may show good levels of test, E2, etc...SHBG is like everything else; Too high is bad, too low is bad.
I tried again for 2 months (I tried last summer as well) but it seems that since my SHBG is low, my body does not know what to do with supra-physiological levels and I literally start to bloat by the end of the first week and get high BP - no matter how much Aromatase inhibitor (AI) I take and irregardless of the fact that my E2 never gets very high anyway - The highest I have ever seen it is around 50. I tried stayed on for 2 months and controlled (barely) the high BP, but I STILL had no libido, could gain no muscle or loose any fat so I backed down and spent 3 more weeks getting rid of the bloat. It was expensive, annoying and discouraging - which is a good synopsis of my overall close to 3 year testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) experiment so far 
Megatron28
Moderator
I tried again for 2 months (I tried last summer as well) but it seems that since my SHBG is low, my body does not know what to do with supra-physiological levels and I literally start to bloat by the end of the first week and get high BP - no matter how much Aromatase inhibitor (AI) I take and irregardless of the fact that my E2 never gets very high anyway - The highest I have ever seen it is around 50. I tried stayed on for 2 months and controlled (barely) the high BP, but I STILL had no libido, could gain no muscle or loose any fat so I backed down and spent 3 more weeks getting rid of the bloat. It was expensive, annoying and discouraging - which is a good synopsis of my overall close to 3 year testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) experiment so far
Just wondering if there was ever a time before testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) when you felt good? When you could could put on muscle and had energy? Felt strong? Etc. Or have you felt this way your entire post-pubertal life?
Spunkey71
New member
I am curious, I recently discovered that I am not able to have children, which makes sense now since my ex wife and I never conceived even though we tried for years. I mentioned Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) to my doctor and he felt it was not needed as I can't have children and my low T is a result of primary Hypogonadism. What benefits would I get from HCG?
Used to have a huge libido
From the time I was 12 to just about age 40 I had a huge libido - basically I had the libido of an 18 year old the entire time. I was never able to put on much muscle as I believe that I have genetically low SHBG, but I had energy and more libido than I knew what to do with - which is probably why it it is so noticeable now in its complete absence.
In addition to low SHBG, Testosterone shots do not seem to convert anything to DHT for me, which is required for libido. I know that because it shows on my blood work, and because I bought a tube of DHT gel on-line as a test and after using it for only 5 days I had my old libido back for a short time until the gel was gone. But DHT gel is not prescribed in the US, so that was just an experiment, unfortunately.
Nothing works the same for everybody, even though some INSIST against all logic that testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) makes everyone feel great. As an example, a shot of Penicillin would cure me of any type of infection, but the same shot would be fatal to my wife as she is deathly allergic to Penicillin. Bee stings are another example - some people can die from one, for others it is just very annoying.
From the time I was 12 to just about age 40 I had a huge libido - basically I had the libido of an 18 year old the entire time. I was never able to put on much muscle as I believe that I have genetically low SHBG, but I had energy and more libido than I knew what to do with - which is probably why it it is so noticeable now in its complete absence.
In addition to low SHBG, Testosterone shots do not seem to convert anything to DHT for me, which is required for libido. I know that because it shows on my blood work, and because I bought a tube of DHT gel on-line as a test and after using it for only 5 days I had my old libido back for a short time until the gel was gone. But DHT gel is not prescribed in the US, so that was just an experiment, unfortunately.
Nothing works the same for everybody, even though some INSIST against all logic that testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) makes everyone feel great. As an example, a shot of Penicillin would cure me of any type of infection, but the same shot would be fatal to my wife as she is deathly allergic to Penicillin. Bee stings are another example - some people can die from one, for others it is just very annoying.
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