Traditional bulk cycle - its all about the estrogen

Roush

I am banned!
Most of you guys already know this -- but figured I'd throw this out there especially for the newbs who are following old school AAS myths about what compound does what or what compound is for bulking or cutting or which compound makes you fat another supposedly makes you ripped.

its all about the estrogen-- when it comes to these old school cycles that guys read about.

example: 30 years ago, before AIs, some guy would want to do a 'bulk cycle' -- so he'd pop 60mg a day of Dianabol for 8 weeks and get full and swole and put on 35 pounds.. other dudes would see this and follow suite..
thus Dbol is a great Bulk Cycle-- it makes you big, albeit a little puffy.

well -- its the damn spike in E2 levels and estrogen and estrogens effect on water retention that is causing this big "bulk cycle" to happen…. Dbol aromatizes like a mother F'er,, estrogen is gonna spike. In fact, AAS compounds that aromatize at high levels, like test and dbol, were always thought to be great bulkers.. and they were thought that BECAUSE OF THE HIGH LEVEL OF AROMATIZATION AND ESTROGEN INCREASE.. estrogen is the bulker.

guys would pick out compounds that convert to estrogen to a high level for their bulk cycles.. compounds that did not convert to estrogen, or did so to a small degree, were always picked out for cut cycles.. Like primobolan or equipoise .

running EQ or primo for a cut because why-- there is not near the 'bulk' BECAUSE there is not a spike in Estrogen and 20 pounds of water retention . ESTROGEN IS THE GREAT BULKER.*** (we are smarter then this now a days, but these old schools cycle myths still exist)

Lets look at EQ (equipoise / boldenone) -- it is pretty much exactly, chemically, similar to Dbol -- yet dbol is the great bulker, and EQ is great for cutting cycles.. why? if they are nearly identical in chemical structure?
Because Dbol spikes estrogen and EQ does not.
EQ and Dbol are nearly the same - Dbol obviously has the c17 alpha alkyl so that it can be taken in oral form and processed by the body- - so why the estrogen spike with dbol compared to EQ,, Dbol doesn't necessarily Aromatize more,, its that it converts to a 17apha methylestadiol, which is a more biologically active form of estrogen then regular estrodial.

So again, its all about the estrogen,, Dbol is the the 'bulker' because it raises estrogen, Eq is more a cutter cause it does not.

thats where we get some of these old school bulk cycles or bulk 'compounds' from-- and why guys here about this stuff and want to run a Dbol only cycle and put on 30 pounds….. what they are wanting is to raise their estrogen, retain a shit ton of water and look swole.



now that AAS knowledge has come along over the years-- we know that diet, training, and CONTROLLING ESTROGEN,, is what determines a bulk cycle from a cut cycle.. you can cut and get jacked on a test, dbol cycle if you control estrogen and diet properly… using an AI is necessary ..

control your E2 and diet and select your compounds accordingly -- but don't just pop Dbol pills and get 'big' cause some dudes were doing it back in the day..
 
The people who want to pop dbol and transform over night should be given this to read, but then again they probably can't read or don't want to read.
 
Great post:) I always laugh when people say I gained 30 pounds in 8 weeks!!! Im like yea you gained 30 pounds but its all water and you look like the michelin man.

10 pounds a year is what I shot for. Yea I might fluctuate as much as 25 pounds but at the end of the cut cycle my goal is to have 10 pounds more lean mass every year. Some years I get it a couple I didn't. When the less experienced users figure out its more about what you eat rather than what you inject that's where the real growth is at.

I have stayed away from the gear that is known to bloat. I was heavy my whole life so scared to death of being chubby now. Slow steady gains on test, and EQ is the way for me.

Great post:)
 
Great post:) I always laugh when people say I gained 30 pounds in 8 weeks!!! Im like yea you gained 30 pounds but its all water and you look like the michelin man.

10 pounds a year is what I shot for. Yea I might fluctuate as much as 25 pounds but at the end of the cut cycle my goal is to have 10 pounds more lean mass every year. Some years I get it a couple I didn't. When the less experienced users figure out its more about what you eat rather than what you inject that's where the real growth is at.

I have stayed away from the gear that is known to bloat. I was heavy my whole life so scared to death of being chubby now. Slow steady gains on test, and EQ is the way for me.

Great post:)

Yep..
spiking estrogen and carrying a bunch of bloat and water weight can be considered a "bulk"..
But who wants that,,, doing it properly and controlling estrogen, now how about we refer to it as a MASS building cycle , rather then bulk cycle . Muscle Mass is what we are really after
 
correct about the estrogen control, but for much more reason than just water control for BS bulking that is not LMM. Most us know the bad sides of high Estrogen (I've listed them many time on here).

Your observation is right on with the old school, I was there Ha...

To sum it up now that we know the science we can have our look what we want as purpose. The immature just wants to look BIG in cloths. The real BB wants to look BIG with his cloths off. :)

Note that most people can't really gain more than 15lbs of LMM in one year. Plus or minus just a little. Of course genetics has an affect with this happening. Remember that in most cases mass moves mass so the more you weigh the more you lift (take that with a rain of salt) there are many variables to that so ergo we bulk up for one reason to add to our training intensity, move more weight.

WE now know what the newbies don't and it is a balance for overall look. Back in my day when I would bulk everyone would say "Man you are getting real big and I would turn heads. Then when I would diet for a show they would ask Mike are you sick. Mike your getting so small. Well that was clothed. I would take my jacket , tie and shirt off and ...... they would say "holy shit mike your huge (take that with a grain..Ha)

So yes control the Estrogen for many reasons. Then your bulk will not be so drastic by keeping the water down.

You can keep your LMM gains (LMM gains) if you continue to have your diet on track and train hard.
 
Great post:) I always laugh when people say I gained 30 pounds in 8 weeks!!! Im like yea you gained 30 pounds but its all water and you look like the michelin man.

10 pounds a year is what I shot for. Yea I might fluctuate as much as 25 pounds but at the end of the cut cycle my goal is to have 10 pounds more lean mass every year. Some years I get it a couple I didn't. When the less experienced users figure out its more about what you eat rather than what you inject that's where the real growth is at.

I have stayed away from the gear that is known to bloat. I was heavy my whole life so scared to death of being chubby now. Slow steady gains on test, and EQ is the way for me.

Great post:)

I agree with you so cal! I would rather have slow steady gains with test and Eq then get bloated quick And I have always been a smaller guy.
 
Waitasec, you mean deca isn't wet, and masteron isn't dry?!


Lol, I love how terms from the 80's still persist to this day. Great thread Roush. :)
 
Haaa........like I've been bulking with some Deca and Dbol and now I'm gonna do some Winstrol. and that will bring my abs right out...:Pat:
 
A lot of people don't understand there is a need of estrogen but it has to be at the right level.

As mentioned above too much has all the negative effects...

On the other hand it does have a direct effect on the process of glucose utilization, growth hormone
secretion, and androgen receptor proliferation.

Estrogen also plays an important part in supporting the activity of serotonin - mental alertness
and the sleep/wake cycle.

In short... too much is not good - and too little is also not good.

Side note - I believe it was Arnold and Mentzer that ran dbol at 10-20mg all year round where
less is more... not saying to run it all year round just worth the mention.
 
^^ yep.. Unlike prolactin,, estrogen is definitely a needed hormone in the male body.. On cycle having estrogen at optimal levels may even help with anabolism ,, "optimal" doesn't mean HIGH levels,, it's a balance , and that's why the use of an AI and blood work is important to get that balance dialed in
 
^^ yep.. Unlike prolactin,, estrogen is definitely a needed hormone in the male body.. On cycle having estrogen at optimal levels may even help with anabolism ,, "optimal" doesn't mean HIGH levels,, it's a balance , and that's why the use of an AI and blood work is important to get that balance dialed in

Roush as we know there are some bad sides from low, too low Estrogen. Crash your E and you will wish you died... well really bad shit.
Sorry to keep posting this but it seems the newbies don't read up and get the hang of Esrogen sides both High and "LOW"

Low Estrogen Side Effects:-

Osteoporosis (weakened bones) ; (long-term low levels)
- Poor sex drive
- Fatigue
- Lethargy
- Skin quality diminishes
- Depression
- Poor sense of wellbeing & poor quality of life

They only relate Estrogen to gyno
 
Roush as we know there are some bad sides from low, too low Estrogen. Crash your E and you will wish you died... well really bad shit.
Sorry to keep posting this but it seems the newbies don't read up and get the hang of Esrogen sides both High and "LOW"

Low Estrogen Side Effects:-

Osteoporosis (weakened bones) ; (long-term low levels)
- Poor sex drive
- Fatigue
- Lethargy
- Skin quality diminishes
- Depression
- Poor sense of wellbeing & poor quality of life

They only relate Estrogen to gyno

Spot on with this - these are common side effects that so many people run into and
get lost trying to correct it!

Great thread Roush - you're covering so many things that get overlooked! :beertoast
 
This is a really good thread, thank you Roush.

I will be posting soon with bw.... I planned to throw in anavar at the end of my current blast. As I am focusing on leaning out and dropping water retention. But this thread makes me think it doesnt really matter wether its anavar or anadrol for example as long as e is controlled I should stay dry, hard
 
^^ some compounds do have a "drying" and hardening effect.. Take winny for example,, but then you have the joint pain that goes along with that.. But yeah keeping estrogen and diet in check you can get lean while using a less "drying" compound IMO
 
^^ some compounds do have a "drying" and hardening effect.. Take winny for example,, but then you have the joint pain that goes along with that.. But yeah keeping estrogen and diet in check you can get lean while using a less "drying" compound IMO

Glad I got injectable winny in route, having npp in my system should negate the joint pain :) Maybe all I need is to throw in eca or something... I just hate how I feel wen I come off thermogenics.
 
Most of you guys already know this -- but figured I'd throw this out there especially for the newbs who are following old school AAS myths about what compound does what or what compound is for bulking or cutting or which compound makes you fat another supposedly makes you ripped.

its all about the estrogen-- when it comes to these old school cycles that guys read about.

example: 30 years ago, before AIs, some guy would want to do a 'bulk cycle' -- so he'd pop 60mg a day of Dianabol for 8 weeks and get full and swole and put on 35 pounds.. other dudes would see this and follow suite..
thus Dbol is a great Bulk Cycle-- it makes you big, albeit a little puffy.

well -- its the damn spike in E2 levels and estrogen and estrogens effect on water retention that is causing this big "bulk cycle" to happen***8230;. Dbol aromatizes like a mother F'er,, estrogen is gonna spike. In fact, AAS compounds that aromatize at high levels, like test and dbol, were always thought to be great bulkers.. and they were thought that BECAUSE OF THE HIGH LEVEL OF AROMATIZATION AND ESTROGEN INCREASE.. estrogen is the bulker.

guys would pick out compounds that convert to estrogen to a high level for their bulk cycles.. compounds that did not convert to estrogen, or did so to a small degree, were always picked out for cut cycles.. Like primobolan or equipoise .

running EQ or primo for a cut because why-- there is not near the 'bulk' BECAUSE there is not a spike in Estrogen and 20 pounds of water retention . ESTROGEN IS THE GREAT BULKER.*** (we are smarter then this now a days, but these old schools cycle myths still exist)

Lets look at EQ (equipoise / boldenone) -- it is pretty much exactly, chemically, similar to Dbol -- yet dbol is the great bulker, and EQ is great for cutting cycles.. why? if they are nearly identical in chemical structure?
Because Dbol spikes estrogen and EQ does not.
EQ and Dbol are nearly the same - Dbol obviously has the c17 alpha alkyl so that it can be taken in oral form and processed by the body- - so why the estrogen spike with dbol compared to EQ,, Dbol doesn't necessarily Aromatize more,, its that it converts to a 17apha methylestadiol, which is a more biologically active form of estrogen then regular estrodial.

So again, its all about the estrogen,, Dbol is the the 'bulker' because it raises estrogen, Eq is more a cutter cause it does not.

thats where we get some of these old school bulk cycles or bulk 'compounds' from-- and why guys here about this stuff and want to run a Dbol only cycle and put on 30 pounds***8230;.. what they are wanting is to raise their estrogen, retain a shit ton of water and look swole.



now that AAS knowledge has come along over the years-- we know that diet, training, and CONTROLLING ESTROGEN,, is what determines a bulk cycle from a cut cycle.. you can cut and get jacked on a test, dbol cycle if you control estrogen and diet properly***8230; using an AI is necessary ..

control your E2 and diet and select your compounds accordingly -- but don't just pop Dbol pills and get 'big' cause some dudes were doing it back in the day..


great post brother.. thanks
 
Okay, I want to use dianabol , but just the right amount to get steady gains, and not just lots of water, I'm on a whey and my diet is 100%, how much D would you recommend and for how long, and would you recommend something to Detoxify my liver and/or a Anti-Estrogen?
 
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