Training to failure...are you really ??

[Stroyer]

I am sure many with question/dispute this but...

Many/alot/most people claim to train to failure on ALL working sets, what I dont understand or cant relate to, is when someone descibes there training & states something along the lines of "i do 4 sets of 10 reps, all sets to failure" ???????????

If one was training to complete MUSCLUAR failure NOT metnal failure (quitting the set when it gets hard & calling that failure) there is NO way you should be able to do all 4 sets to failure using the same weight, if you can, you did NOT take the first 3 sets to MUSCULAR failure...unless you rested like one hour between them sets, I have yet to see anyone who I put this test up to against at the gym be able to do more than 2 consecutive sets using the same pdg both to muscluar failure...

You may do say 4 sets to failure but I cant see how with the same weight for the above reasons...

IF you take that 1st work set to real momentary muscular failure where as you fail at say 10 reps....rest then come back & do the same weight with same strict form & reach 10 reps again...you are def genetically gifted...I have yet to see anyone at the gym do so who I talk into trying this little experiment...

Everyone I have had try this usually does something like this...first set to true failure for say 10 reps...rest as would normally, not an extend rest or a super short rest, & attempt a second set using the exact same form/pdg & rep cadence, will usually get no more then 8 reps the second set, & the reps keep dropping every set there after...

If you gave 100% effort on the first set, how can you better that, & seeing that you taxed you reserves, nervous system, endocrine system & last but not least the individual muscle..you can not match that inital 100% after you have fatigued your self to the max already...

I am done ranting now..
Stroyer

 

[dejansen]

I absolutely agree with you! Same weight, same number of reps = no way muscular failure is being reached unless they're resting for an excessive amount of time between sets.

 

[Eze]

I don't know how possible it is to go to failure on every set and I don't know how beneficial it would be either. I will usually only go to failure on my last set of every exercise only. My gains have never suffered and I have been injury free.

 

[Stroyer]

Easto

I have a question for you Easto...

So you only go to failure on your final set ?? per ex ? What did you do the prior sets before your last one & how many do you do ??

I am assuming you pyramid up in weight over a few sets say 3 working up to that last set that you said you do to failure ??

You just wasted 3 sets worth of your energy, to get to ONE growth/hypertrophy/strength producing set...

I will be my left nut, that if you cut out the 3 pyramided up sets you used to get to that one set to failure, the that you will be able to lift considrably more weight or get quite a few more reps on that failure set that you did when pyramiding up...

There is only 2 ways to judge intensity...complete rest 0% & 100% maximal effort, how is one to guestimate just how hard they trained if not 100% or complete rest, there is no way to accurately judge it..

And I agree, it would be very hard to perform all your sets for a exercise to failure...that is why I just do one work/fail set per exercise...

Don get me wrong I dont just jump to my max weight for that set...I will do 1-3 VERY light to moderat weight warm ups first, BUT none of these warm up cause any prefatigue AT ALL, unlike the pyramiding version...then I go straight to my heaviset set..

Try this once bro...choose an ex...do 3 light warm up sets, which cause NO fatigue at all...if you begin to feel any fatigue in the warm ups, stop that warm up...then, go right to that fail set, pick the weight you would usually use, & add 10lbs onto that & I can ALMOST guarntee you will get that extra weight for your usuall # of reps or MORE, most likely more...

I just dont believe in wasting 3 progressively heavier pyramided sets worth of energy, strength & etc...to get then to finally get to that one set to failure...why waste all that time & enery...& I can almost PROMISE you you will lift more on that fail set, which is in fact the set that is stimulating the most improvement...

Again...I am done ranting now...
Stroyer

I don't know how possible it is to go to failure on every set and I don't know how beneficial it would be either. I will usually only go to failure on my last set of every exercise only. My gains have never suffered and I have been injury free.

 

[Eze]

This is what I will do
Example Squats:
135 X 20
225 x 20
315 x 15
405 x ? As many as I can get

I guess the first 3 sets are more less a warmup. I would find it pretty touch to get under the bar and start squatting 400+ pounds without a warmup. I may try your suggestion, but for now this has been working well for me.

 

[Hardrock]

good post Stroyer! I agree with everything you stated here. I have been following this training style for 4-5 months now and I have never looked back. Best move I've ever made!

 

[Stroyer]

Thanks Hardrock

I dont want people to think I am some die hard HIT freak, I dont do true HIT, I guess you could say, I do however use some of the techniques, but I dont adhere to the exact way of thinking & program.

With HIT, one think people ALWAYS say, is HIT, is the only scientific way to train...if you read any or all of Mentzer's books, you can see it is clearly not based on science, it IS based simply on theories & philosophies...& he tends to highlight any theory of philosophy that supports his ideas.

I agree alot of the points Mentzer make me think twice about alot of training ways, though even HIT is not a be all end all method.

One think I hate, is when people who have never tried any variation of low volume High intensity training bash or rip on any program they dont THINK will work...THINK is the word, How can you bash or rip on something YOU have NEVER tried....dont knock it till you try it...

Over the many, many years I have trained, I have tried about every training method there is, high volume, HST, Max-ot, HIT, WSB...just about all of them...& in the end I always come back to my low volume high intensity program (that is a variation of HIT)....

Someone who is VERY genetically gifted or who is juiced to the gills, may do great on just about every program they try, but for the vast majority they wont work...

If you start a program doing say 12 sets per bodypart...If & when that does not work, how do you know what to do, increase or decrease volume ???? have no logical way to find out........the only true way to know if you should increase volume, is by yes...starting at ONE set with maximal effort per bodypart....& then work your way up in sets add one set every 2 weeks or so weeks, & if you stop making as good of progress you were, then you know you have reached you optimal prescription of exercise for that muscle.......

If I can stimulate muscle growth off of just 2 sets per bodypart...why should I do more ??? It would be a waste of time...does doing LOTS of sets make you grow more.........NO.........it may make you more sore, but where does that get you......it takes you 3 times as long to recover, you wont grow any faster, possibly even at a slower pace, cause you have to wait all that much loonger to recover & if you dont wait till you are 100% recovered, they YOU are REALLY screwing yourself in progress....

Again = Rant Over
Stroyer

 

[house1]

hhhmmmmmm, you have me thinking stroyer. i may give that a try. i have done just about everything so something new gets my interest going.

give me a typical workout scheme bro. for lets say chest. so you would do a couple warmups and then one balls to the walls set?dorian style?

 

[Milhouse]

I think people need to find what works best for them and even more importantly what keeps them loving to work out(sorry but aside from people taking layoffs, I absolutly have no fucking time for people who workout yet hate it, take up pinball if you hate it)

That being said I think for some they thrive off hi intensity while others love to do the opposite, more sets/volume, training just shy or positive failure(where the weight cant move for another "regular" rep)

 

[WannaBe]

When a partner is not available for forced reps, I rely on these failure techniques:

Strip set: drop weight and do more right away

half reps: if u can't do another rep, make sure and atleast put it up for a couple of half-reps to guarantee your at failure. This works best with shoulder press.

self-spot: I wear wrist straps on single cable curl so I can grab the strap and assist myself in a forced rep. Just one example. Use your imagination.