[TRT] Sustanon 250mg every 3 weeks

[dushi]

Hi guys,
I'm 22 years old and I've been put on Sustanon 250 once every three weeks. I was on Tostrangel before, but I changed to injections because my skin got irritated.
I've never had a good level of Testosterone. I've told my endo I wanted to have raging hormones like a teenager, just because I have never been able to feel anything like it. I have many (if not all) symptons of low T, although I'm really used to it, because I've never felt different for the last years.
In multiple topics I see many people getting way more mg's. Like a 40 year old guy getting Sustanon 250 every 2 weeks. Or alot people get 100 mg cyp (I think) every week.
I'm in my third week now and feeling more tired and having less energy, will get my next injection friday. Also my endo doesn't really support weekly injections, because "thats not how we really do it here (in the Netherlands)". I am scared missing out on Testosterone, especially because I have no comparison from how it should feel.
Anyone got some advice?

 

[tbonexl]

Sust for trt every 3 weeks? You need a new doc or a better story.

 

[Roush]

How many mg of sustanon are you injecting?
Every three weeks is a joke,, you'r doc just F'd you up, your natty test is totally gone and your not injecting enough exo test to get your levels up..

200 mg every 5 days would be effective-- higher a lawyer and sue your doc for screwing you up and collecting $ for doing it

 

[TRTnooby]

Read this: http://www.steroidology.com/forum/testosterone-replacement-therapy/662394-basic-trt-overview.html

That has all the info you need on how you should be treated. E3W injections are never going to work.

 

[dushi]

Wow thanks for the replies. I am quite shocked to be fair. Anyway I'll tell you a little bit more about myself and my story.
In January 2014 they discovered a prolactinoma which was blocking my testosterone production. The tumor started to develop in my puberty, the same age as my testosterone shouldve been raising. Looking back I've always had the low T symptions. Low confidence, always tired, really much troubles with any kind of intimicy which led to lower self esteem etc.


Summing it up: I have fucking no clue how it feels to actually have a good testosterone, I'm scared that my doc won't put me on higher dosage and I will never even mention that I can feel any better than I am right now.

btw:
1mL of sustanon 250 contains:
30 mg testosterone propionate
60 mg testosterone phenylpropionate
60 mg testosterone isocaproate
100 mg testosterone decanoate

More advice is always welcome!

 

[TRTnooby]

Wow thanks for the replies. I am quite shocked to be fair. Anyway I'll tell you a little bit more about myself and my story.
In January 2014 they discovered a prolactinoma which was blocking my testosterone production. The tumor started to develop in my puberty, the same age as my testosterone shouldve been raising. Looking back I've always had the low T symptions. Low confidence, always tired, really much troubles with any kind of intimicy which led to lower self esteem etc.


Summing it up: I have fucking no clue how it feels to actually have a good testosterone, I'm scared that my doc won't put me on higher dosage and I will never even mention that I can feel any better than I am right now.

btw:
1mL of sustanon 250 contains:
30 mg testosterone propionate
60 mg testosterone phenylpropionate
60 mg testosterone isocaproate
100 mg testosterone decanoate

More advice is always welcome!

I'm sorry to hear that. You got dealt a shitty hand man. Read the link I posted, there is tons of good info there. I can't advise you on how to get proper care in the Netherlands, though, I'm American and our systems are very different I think.

 

[dushi]

I'm sorry to hear that. You got dealt a shitty hand man. Read the link I posted, there is tons of good info there. I can't advise you on how to get proper care in the Netherlands, though, I'm American and our systems are very different I think.

Yes, I saw the link which was very helpful. Thanks!
Although I'm fucking screwed already. Great.

 

[Megatron28]

Learn about those different esters and their half lives. Then you will understand why sustanon cannot be injected once every 3 weeks. It should be injected every other day.

250mg once every 3 weeks is too little as well - ignoring the pinning frequency. A typical TRT dosage is between 100-200mg per week.

 

[dushi]

Learn about those different esters and their half lives. Then you will understand why sustanon cannot be injected once every 3 weeks. It should be injected every other day.

250mg once every 3 weeks is too little as well - ignoring the pinning frequency. A typical TRT dosage is between 100-200mg per week.

What would you think is a better dose to be in the high end testosterone for my age? Reference is like 9 - 31 nmol/l according to the hospital I'm in.

 

[TRTnooby]

What would you think is a better dose to be in the high end testosterone for my age? Reference is like 9 - 31 nmol/l according to the hospital I'm in.

I would start at 100mg a week of Test Cypionate or Enanthate or even better 50 2x a week and see how you do from there. Better to start slow and adjust as necessary imo. You could be one of the lucky ones where a little goes a long way.

 

[sanipialo]

Fellow Dutch Guy (Hoe gaat het?)


The problem in The Netherlands is that doctors have 2 types of injectable options. Sustanon 250mg and Nebido 1000mg.

The level of knowledge among Dutch Urologists, General Internists and Endocrinologists is regarding TRT is not that great. They rarely deal with TRT and in cases when they do it is mostly elderly men recovering from prostate cancer treatment or with very specific cases such as patients with Klinefelter.


Sustanon 250mg is a terrible treatment for TRT. The goal of TRT is to replace what would be your natural production of 8 to 12 mg/day. That is why the official protocol in many countries is 100mg of Enanthate or Cypionate a week. Which would result in a piek of about 15 and a low of about 6 mg/day. Optimally you want to look at 60mg every 4 days which is about 8 to 13.5 mg/day. Although most younger adults feel greater at a higher level of 75mg every 4 days which is about 10 to 16 mg/day.

With Sustanon 250 you can never achieve that. You will be getting extremely high levels of about 30 to 55 mg/d in the first 4 days which increases the risk of symptoms. Then for in the last 10 days you will have 1 mg to 5 mg/day. This is called a rollercoaster or achtbaan when searching in Dutch. You do NOT want this. This will result in feeling great the first week and feeling shit the third week. But in the long term you are going to have much more symptoms and problems.

This is how it looks

Steroidplot - Shared cycle

Unfortunately Dutch doctors cannot prescribe Enanthate or Cypionate, but they can prescribe Undecanoate by the brand name Nebido every 8 weeks. This is one injection of 1000mg every 8 weeks and monitoring your bloodwork and state to adjust this. After 1 year this can change to once every 6 weeks up to once every 12 weeks depending on your body.

This is a very slow ester and will give you a stable result and no longer a rollercoaster effect.
Make sure your doctor puts you on Nebido. If he is unwilling to do this, or simply doesn***8217;t understand it (which I suspect, uncles it is a pilot period or your choose not to go with Nebido as it is more expensive with eigen risico) change your doctor while it is still possible!

p.s. What where your blood values before starting?

 

[dushi]

Fellow Dutch Guy (Hoe gaat het?)


The problem in The Netherlands is that doctors have 2 types of injectable options. Sustanon 250mg and Nebido 1000mg.

The level of knowledge among Dutch Urologists, General Internists and Endocrinologists is regarding TRT is not that great. They rarely deal with TRT and in cases when they do it is mostly elderly men recovering from prostate cancer treatment or with very specific cases such as patients with Klinefelter.


Sustanon 250mg is a terrible treatment for TRT. The goal of TRT is to replace what would be your natural production of 8 to 12 mg/day. That is why the official protocol in many countries is 100mg of Enanthate or Cypionate a week. Which would result in a piek of about 15 and a low of about 6 mg/day. Optimally you want to look at 60mg every 4 days which is about 8 to 13.5 mg/day. Although most younger adults feel greater at a higher level of 75mg every 4 days which is about 10 to 16 mg/day.

With Sustanon 250 you can never achieve that. You will be getting extremely high levels of about 30 to 55 mg/d in the first 4 days which increases the risk of symptoms. Then for in the last 10 days you will have 1 mg to 5 mg/day. This is called a rollercoaster or achtbaan when searching in Dutch. You do NOT want this. This will result in feeling great the first week and feeling shit the third week. But in the long term you are going to have much more symptoms and problems.

This is how it looks

Steroidplot - Shared cycle

Unfortunately Dutch doctors cannot prescribe Enanthate or Cypionate, but they can prescribe Undecanoate by the brand name Nebido every 8 weeks. This is one injection of 1000mg every 8 weeks and monitoring your bloodwork and state to adjust this. After 1 year this can change to once every 6 weeks up to once every 12 weeks depending on your body.

This is a very slow ester and will give you a stable result and no longer a rollercoaster effect.
Make sure your doctor puts you on Nebido. If he is unwilling to do this, or simply doesn***8217;t understand it (which I suspect, uncles it is a pilot period or your choose not to go with Nebido as it is more expensive with eigen risico) change your doctor while it is still possible!

p.s. What where your blood values before starting?

Hey! Thats cool meeting a fellow Dutchie.
Before my treatment I had around 8 nmol/l. Unfortunatly I'm not able to put Nebido in steroidplot. How much would Nebido cost me every 2 months? Also what do you use and whats your age?

Gr!

 

[sanipialo]

Hey! Thats cool meeting a fellow Dutchie.
Before my treatment I had around 8 nmol/l. Unfortunatly I'm not able to put Nebido in steroidplot. How much would Nebido cost me every 2 months? Also what do you use and whats your age?

Gr!

I am 32. A 4ml 250mg/ml ampule costs about 90 euro. If your dosage is every 8 weeks it would be about 49 euro a month. It depends on your insurance to see how much you have to pay yourself. But if costs is a problem you can see if your doctor would put you on Sustanon 250 every 2 weeks, which is about 18 euro a month.

I know some people take the Sustanon 250 put it in sterile vials and take 75 to 100mg every 5 to 7 days. This is not ideal, but will put your weekly range between 5 and 20 mg/day. The benefit is that most insurance companies fully or partly pay for Sustanon 250, but only a few pay for Nebido.

As for me, my levels where too high for Dutch standards. My blood tests showed an average of 10,8 nmol/l which is too high for Dutch protocol, which advises doctors not to treat patients who are 9 or higher. Someone who is 20 years old will be treated the same as someone who is 80 years old in terms of blood results.


So I went to our neighbors who wanted to put me on the same treatment as you for 3 months and then on to Nebido. Why this? Because Nebido is too slow to determine if an average of 10,8 will take away my symptoms in the short term. He would rather give me Enanthaat, but could not prescribe it as it is not available in The Netherlands. So I got it from another country and am doing 100 mg every 5 days. No rollercoaster effect and I have my first blood test showing 36 nmol/l. I feel great!
In March I have an appointment to move to Nebido every 8 weeks.

 

[dushi]

I am 32. A 4ml 250mg/ml ampule costs about 90 euro. If your dosage is every 8 weeks it would be about 49 euro a month. It depends on your insurance to see how much you have to pay yourself. But if costs is a problem you can see if your doctor would put you on Sustanon 250 every 2 weeks, which is about 18 euro a month.

I know some people take the Sustanon 250 put it in sterile vials and take 75 to 100mg every 5 to 7 days. This is not ideal, but will put your weekly range between 5 and 20 mg/day. The benefit is that most insurance companies fully or partly pay for Sustanon 250, but only a few pay for Nebido.

As for me, my levels where too high for Dutch standards. My blood tests showed an average of 10,8 nmol/l which is too high for Dutch protocol, which advises doctors not to treat patients who are 9 or higher. Someone who is 20 years old will be treated the same as someone who is 80 years old in terms of blood results.


So I went to our neighbors who wanted to put me on the same treatment as you for 3 months and then on to Nebido. Why this? Because Nebido is too slow to determine if an average of 10,8 will take away my symptoms in the short term. He would rather give me Enanthaat, but could not prescribe it as it is not available in The Netherlands. So I got it from another country and am doing 100 mg every 5 days. No rollercoaster effect and I have my first blood test showing 36 nmol/l. I feel great!
In March I have an appointment to move to Nebido every 8 weeks.

Damn, 36nmol/l!! I'd give my left nut for that. I asked my endo I wanted to go to 35nmol/l, just so I would atleast for once experience how it is to be someone of my age with raging hormones . Unfortunatly he said that it's too high, because the reference my hospital uses is 10-31 nmol/l.
So now you're getting Enanthaat 'illegally'. Does Dutch insurance pay for that? If not, what do you pay for it? And why would you switch to Nebido, because it's probably going to be worse than Enanthaat right?
I'm on TRT for just 2 months and changed from gel to injections already. I get so much information and advice from for instance you and it's all so different with the vision of my endo it seems. I got an appointment in the beginning of march with my endo, so I'll keep doing these injections untill then. I will make a plan with all the advice I'm getting though.
Any idea what insurance covers Nebido the most btw?

Please keep me posted about the Nebido!

 

[bigben66]

I was originally on the same European-wide protocol - Sustanon 250 every 3 weeks - it got me nowhere...

I managed to persuade my doc to let me try Nebido, and after 4 x 6 weekly injections my levels still hadn't risen.

I persevered with him and pestered him to let me try a Nebido injection every 4 weeks, and BOOM, my levels rose to a satisfactory level, and that is where I have been for the last 14 months.

My current protocol is...

1000mg/4ml Nebido - every 4 weeks (Prescribed)
0.5mg Arimidex - E5D (unprescribed - UGL)
500iu HCG every 3.5 days (unprescribed - UGL)
5mg Cialis daily (Prescribed)

Sex life is good, low Test symptoms are now a distant memory.

My advice to you is to learn everything you possibly can about TRT in the EU, you'll end up knowing more than your doc. But as long as you can earn his trust, don't be too pushy, and ensure he listens to your experience. You'll get there.

Although this forum is predominantly used by US guys - they have proved invaluable to me in learning how this works....
Yes, you will have to keep an open mind, and realise that Euro docs have different methods and protocols - but at the end of the day, the end goal is the same.

Good luck buddy,
BigBen

 

[sanipialo]

Damn, 36nmol/l!! I'd give my left nut for that. I asked my endo I wanted to go to 35nmol/l, just so I would atleast for once experience how it is to be someone of my age with raging hormones . Unfortunatly he said that it's too high, because the reference my hospital uses is 10-31 nmol/l.
So now you're getting Enanthaat 'illegally'. Does Dutch insurance pay for that? If not, what do you pay for it? And why would you switch to Nebido, because it's probably going to be worse than Enanthaat right?
I'm on TRT for just 2 months and changed from gel to injections already. I get so much information and advice from for instance you and it's all so different with the vision of my endo it seems. I got an appointment in the beginning of march with my endo, so I'll keep doing these injections untill then. I will make a plan with all the advice I'm getting though.
Any idea what insurance covers Nebido the most btw?

Please keep me posted about the Nebido!

36 nmol/l is a bit on the high side and I one I get on the Nebido I expect it to be go down to 30 which is still great.

What I am doing is not illegal within EU laws. It is not covered by insurance, although there are ways to get it covered. But the costs of physically traveling to another EU country to get the papers is not worth it. Based on my dosage I pay about 12 euro a month.

Gel is something you doctor should have never given you in your condition. You should start reading this to get a better understanding. These are the official guidelines to doctors and one of the best sources to get your information. You will end up knowing more than your doctor.
https://www.endocrine.org/~/media/e...delines/FINAL-Androgens-in-Men-Standalone.pdf

As for insurance questions, you should contact your insurance company.

 

[dushi]

I was originally on the same European-wide protocol - Sustanon 250 every 3 weeks - it got me nowhere...

I managed to persuade my doc to let me try Nebido, and after 4 x 6 weekly injections my levels still hadn't risen.

I persevered with him and pestered him to let me try a Nebido injection every 4 weeks, and BOOM, my levels rose to a satisfactory level, and that is where I have been for the last 14 months.

My current protocol is...

1000mg/4ml Nebido - every 4 weeks (Prescribed)
0.5mg Arimidex - E5D (unprescribed - UGL)
500iu HCG every 3.5 days (unprescribed - UGL)
5mg Cialis daily (Prescribed)

Sex life is good, low Test symptoms are now a distant memory.

My advice to you is to learn everything you possibly can about TRT in the EU, you'll end up knowing more than your doc. But as long as you can earn his trust, don't be too pushy, and ensure he listens to your experience. You'll get there.

Although this forum is predominantly used by US guys - they have proved invaluable to me in learning how this works....
Yes, you will have to keep an open mind, and realise that Euro docs have different methods and protocols - but at the end of the day, the end goal is the same.

Good luck buddy,
BigBen

Hi BigBen,

Looking at my doctor he won't perscribe me Nebido every 4 weeks probably. He'll start on the usual 12 week/injection (this is usual on Nebido right?). What do Cialis, Arimidex and HCG do? Should I be taking it? I only use Sustanon right now.
Also would Sustanon half a bottle a week be any good?

 

[bigben66]

Cialis helps with erectile dysfunction (and also BP and prostate)
Arimidex deals with keeping E2 sides in check.
HCG is optional - but I find it helped with the psychological aspect of my nuts shrinking and my loads going lumpy (side effect of TRT)

Yes - 12 weeks is the recommended period initially for Nebido. You will have your 1st injection, then a booster jab 4 weeks later, then you go on a 12 week injection protocol which works for some, but needs reducing for others, only blood tests at various times will show what is best for you.

 

[bigben66]

If he insists on keeping you on Sustanon, then yes, splitting the dose and taking it more regularly will lessen the peaks and troughs and make the whole rollercoaster easier to tolerate.

 

[Stagman]

Learn about those different esters and their half lives. Then you will understand why sustanon cannot be injected once every 3 weeks. It should be injected every other day.

250mg once every 3 weeks is too little as well - ignoring the pinning frequency. A typical TRT dosage is between 100-200mg per week.

I'm also on Sus 250 in the UK. I'm looking to inject 100mg E3.5D (200mg per week). Hopefully it should sort me out.