Unconventional NPP Cycle Libido Question:

jaast3

New member
Those with no personal experience/data on high NPP/no test use, do not reply. I am not interested in your conjecture.

Background: I would like to get rid of my libido, and remain fertile. Would the 800mg/week of NPP with no test eliminate my libido (not just reduce, but eliminate)? This thread should not get hijacked by the topic of test in a cycle. I plan to keep some endogenous test with HCG etc. I DO NOT WANT THIS TO SIDE TRACK THE QUESTION AT HAND! I am looking for data, not proselytizing. I plan on changing this cycle after marriage, and add test. After marriage, I will be off of aas till my wife gets pregnant.

I will change the cycle based on data; this is a draft. I will get full blood work done before cycle, during, and at the tail end of PCT. I will be donating blood after three months (2?). I will be eating clean on a mild but nutritious CKD. I first will purchase PCT/gyno gear. Then I will purchase all other gear before starting the cycle.


Would 800mg/week of NPP (Nandrolone Phenylpropionate), in the stack below,
eliminate libido? I want to use the least amount needed.


Draft Cycle for reference:

weeks 1-12
- Hcg ........... 300iu/twice a week (maintain fertility)
- Hmg .......... 25iu/twice a week (synergistic with hcg)
- Trenbolone Acetate 75-85mg/twice a week (help keep gains, minimize sides at this
lower dose; increase if tolerable?)
- NPP (nandrolone phenylpropionate-Durabolin) 400mg/twice a week
(eliminate libido; joints, good anabolism at this dose. Increase dose to 500mg/twice a week if libido is
not gone after 2 weeks?)
- 2mg? day of Telmisartin ................ (mild cardio help)
- GHRP? (not concurrently w/ DNP?) (dose? appetite)


- AIs taken regularly depending on blood work (Exemestane/Aromasin,
?->Diindolylmethane- DIM- ?), I am still determining dosages to take with lack of test in this stack to prevent gyno, and keep libido gone.
- I am still researching if I want to include Cialis for prostrate health; I will be also using
Saw Palmetto.
- because I read a report that Tren may harm or reduce white blood cells, I will be taking Astragalus.
- I am studying the IGF-1 issue, so I may take something for that.
- T3 taken regularly to help fat burning (I am not fat, just slightly more than in my youth, I
have always been fairly trim. I do not know my body fat percentage, but will research how to measure it accurately. I mainly want to reduce viceral fat, as I have developed a belly.) I am unsure of dosing at this time.
- DNP (dinitrophenol) also for reducing fat. 25-100mg?? twice a day. (use with dantrolene in
the summer to help with hyperthermia???). Concerns about cataracts (wondering about using with additional supplement to help prevent cataracts). I am considering the 25mg/day because of the sides. The main concerns I have are being less energetic, and especially the induced temporary "mental fuzziness". However, I normally take several things for my memory/brain so maybe it should not be too bad. I already take items including, coenzyme B-12, CDP choline, a racetam, huperizine A, and a mix of memory/brain herbs in pure bulk powder. I will drink more fluids, and take extra salt and potassium because of the need for increased electrolytes.
- I may take insulin (???) because DNP reduces insulin production. I also know bodybuilders use insulin, but have not researched as to why this is done. I have no idea on dosage at this time.
- HGH treats trensomnia?? Can I use this one day a week to get extra rest that day?? cost/benefit ratio concern.





Tail end of cycle/PCT/marriage

replace injectables with orals (short half lives, sort of a pre-PCT) (still determining dosages):
- Primobolan ................................... (stay anabolic while clearing esters)
- Masteron ................................... (same as primo above)
- Proviron (mesterolone ) .............. (libido, improve anabolism of other orals by binding to
SHBG)
- d-aspartic acid (DAA)?? ............ (mild help to test restart???)
- ai? ................................................ (estrogen rebound ???)


week 11-12 - orals tapered down to nothing by end of week 12 (day 4? of week 12 is
last day of any orals)
- Clomid/Tamoxifen/Toremifene: wed 7/2/10, thr 10/2/15, thur-sat 15/5/20
(concerns about vision, blood clots)
- some variety of melanotan or derivative for libido/function
- aromasin 10mg/day?
- DAA?
- some variety of melanotan or derivative for libido/function
- Triptorelin??? one injection only of 50mcg on day 6 of this week
do this earlier in the cycle????? I am considering taking this shot two weeks into the cycle instead. In this second case, I wonder if I need to reduce my HCG/HMG dose for a while??
week 13 - Clomid/Tamoxifen/Toremifene: 15/5/20
- some variety of melanotan or derivative for libido/function
- aromasin 10mg/day?
- DAA?
- some variety of melanotan or derivative for libido/function
week 14 - Clomid/Tamoxifen/Toremifene: 10/2/15
- some variety of melanotan or derivative for libido/function
- aromasin 10mg/day?
- DAA?
- some variety of melanotan or derivative for libido/function


ai tapering after week 14 because of rebound??


other gear to have on hand for possible gyno: Letrozole, and/or others, SERMs (Raloxifene for reversing gynecomastia. 60mg - 80mg daily until gynecomastia is gone.)


~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~

What I really want to know is if the NPP dose is effective to eliminate libido during cycle, not just reduce it. Would a smaller dose work?

I appreciate any info.
 
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If you do all that you might turn into the wife! Wtf man! Everything is completely wrong here! Everything! Holy shit...
 
No, it will not eliminate libido. Yes, will likely make you infertile. Yes, it will likely stop you from getting/maintaining erections.

Why would you want to do this? This is one of the strangest questions I have ever seen on this site.
 
Agreed with Mega.

Anything you do to eliminate/reduce libido is going to make you feel like shit and produce a whole heap of other negative symptoms alongside it. Then there's always the possibility, as said above, your libido and/or ability to get and maintain an erection may not ever come back.

The "safest" way I can see you doing this is by letting prolactin shoot up there - but again your gonna feel real shitty and probably lactate. I think it's a terrible idea over all.

If your trying to abstain before marriage all I can suggest is just beat your meat more lol. Much healthier alternative.
 
This question is super weird. If you're planning on having a lasting marriage, I think u are waayyy off track...
 
I'm honestly surprised that you did all that research and this is the conclusion you have drawn OP. Seriously.

DNP, T3, tren, NPP, and a host of other drugs so you don't want to have sex? I hate to break it to you, but I didn't see any mention of a dopamine agonist or other ancillaries that are required for a SANE cycle, not to mention this.. Errr... Idea.

Will it kill your libido? NOPE. What will happen however is that you're going to likely catabolize lean mass, develop a skin rash, be unable to obtain an erection, have difficulty ejaculating, and really feel like complete shit.

And those are the sides if you're lucky.

I really hate it when folks start a thread thinking they can reinvent the wheel and state that they don't want advice unless someone else has made the same god-awful mistake. Look, you're taking a huge risk here of never being able to make testosterone naturally again, EVER.

Do you really think that attempting to kill sexual desire is worth taking that risk? I really think you need the help from a qualified counselor or perhaps psychologist. Sexual desire is part of being human, and trying to turn it off with the potential for terrible consequences just doesn't seem healthy to me.

I agree with Mega; pop it in the chatterbox or poopchute until you make those vows. That or find a chick that isn't holding your cock hostage until you "buy the cow".

My .02c :)
 
At least a little bit of science was addressed in all the posts so far.

Does it kill libido? The fact is I have read of it being done at exactly one gram a week of NPP, with no test, and the libido being non-existant, not just low. Oh, and he recovered just fine with his pct (i.e had natural test unlike the above assertion). Would anyone at least say nands reduce libido (which is obvious).

DNP and T3 were not included for anything to do with libido.

>>
What will happen however is that you're going to likely catabolize lean mass,
>>

Exactly how? Can you mention any examples?

google: can-deca-only-gains-kept-163215.html


>>
I really hate it when folks start a thread thinking they can reinvent the wheel and state that they don't want advice unless someone else has made the same god-awful mistake. Look, you're taking a huge risk here of never being able to make testosterone naturally again, EVER.
>>

I am here for advice, not guffaws, and jokes. Wheels work just fine, I am not denying advice. I posted with only the stipulation of trying no test. That is it. And do you really think by adding test to the above cycle, I can never make test again. Test shuts you down. Sorry, there are many who do high nand with hcg and can make test after a proper pct. But please educate me with some science. Do you deny the protective effects of hcg and hmg on cycle?

I do want to learn. I did post did I not? I did ask for input, no?

>>
but I didn't see any mention of a dopamine agonist or other ancillaries that are required for a SANE cycle
>>

Again, please explain. Just because I am not adding test NOW does not mean I somehow do not learn. This is illogical.
Back to reason:
1. Why a dopamine agonist?
2. What other ancillaries are you referring to?

Why am I doing this? I have a large amount of work to concentrate on; I am not the only one that says lack of a libido helps concentration. One recent example is Boston Loyd.
 
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You know what would be funny. Post links to experience where NPP or Deca taken alone for a complete cycle did not reduce libido, only erections.

"NPP increased my libido for life, wow!" or some such post.

lol

Seriously, if you have such links, I will learn.
 
btw, no one mentioned that they have ANY experience with high nand, and no test, or any knowledge of related science or experience.

so....
 
No one that I know of has actually been stupid enough to try a cycle to this degree of madness. Without real life experimentation is really impossible to tell if npp will kill your libido. But even if you wanted to screw something, without duct tape and a couple Popsicle sticks you'd be shit out of luck my man.
But by all means try it out and report back. Just doesn't make any sense whatsoever to me though
 
This study... I think it confirms what we have been telling you.

Effect of 19-norandrostenololylaurate on serum testosterone concent... - PubMed - NCBI

The long-term effect of anabolic steroid was investigated in 3 experiments. In experiment I, 500 mg of 19-norandrostenololylaurate was given to 5 colts and a dose of 100 mg to another 5 colts every 3rd week. Six colts served as untreated controls. The animals were 12-16 months old at the start, and 24 months at the end of treatment. In experiment II, a dose of 1 mg/kg was given every 3rd week to 4 colts and 0.3 mg/kg every week to another 4 colts. Six colts served as controls. The colts were treated from 7 months to 12 months of age. In experiment III, 1 mg/kg of steroid was given every 3rd week to 3 foals between 3 and 8 months of age. Three foals were used as controls. Libido and hCG-induced serum testosterone concentrations were studied after the cessation of treatments, up to 3 or 4 years of age. Closure of the right distal radial growth plate was determined between 21 and 36 months of age. Treated colts had lower testosterone levels 4.5 months after cessation of treatment in experiment I (p < 0.001) and experiment II (p < 0.05) when compared with the corresponding control groups. Two years after treatments in experiment I, hCG-induced testosterone levels were higher in treated colts than in untreated controls, but the difference was not statistically significant. The treatments had no effect on libido. The anabolic steroid treatment did not cause premature closure of epiphyseal growth plates in any of the experiments, but closure appeared to be delayed. It was concluded that anabolic steroids have long term effects on reproduction. Their influence on serum testosterone can last for years after cessation of treatment, and they can delay the closure of growth plates which can cause increased susceptibility to cartilage injury during exercise.
 
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Here is another that you may be able to draw something from even though it is on females.

Nandrolone decanoate (deca-durabolin) in primary Sjögren's syndrome... - PubMed - NCBI

The efficacy and side-effects of Deca-Durabolin (DD) were tested, in a double blind fashion, in twenty female primary Sjögren's syndrome (1 degree SS) patients. Ten randomly assigned patients received DD (100 mg IM bi-weekly) for six months, and ten others placebo, for the same period. Analysis of the results revealed that the DD-treated patients showed a moderate improvement of subjective xerostomia, a significant decrease of the erythrocyte sedimentation rate (ESR), and an overall improvement of their feeling of well-being, -judged by themselves and the investigator subjectively-, when compared with the placebo group. All the sicca objective parameters (results of Schirmer's I test, slit lamp eye examination after rose bengal staining, stimulated parotid flow rate measurements and labial minor salivary gland histopathology) were not significantly altered in either group. The clinical side-effects were the expected ones, i.e. hirsutism, hoarseness and an increase in libido, more pronounced in the DD-treated group. At the end of the study, one DD-treated patient, developed a diffuse well-differentiated B-lymphocytic lymphoma, which regressed spontaneously three months later.
 
And another one on human males.

Reversible azoospermia induced by the anabolic steroid 19-nortestos... - PubMed - NCBI

Esterified 19-nortestosterone, an anabolic steroid which has been in clinical use for over 20 years, was administered intramuscularly to five healthy volunteers in doses of 100 mg/week for 3 weeks followed by 200 mg/week for a further 10 weeks. Azoospermia occurred 7 to 13 weeks after initiation of treatment and persisted for 4-14 weeks after the last injection. Serum gonadotropin and testosterone levels were reduced, but androgenic effects were maintained as indicated by unchanged libido and potency. No serious side-effects were noted. 19-nortestosterone appears to be a potential agent for male fertility control.
 
Pinn NPP twice a week ? There's lots wrong with this cycle bro. Take above advice, do some more reading and remain teachable.
 
This is all wrong! Who wants to do this to get the neg affects? Don't under stand? Really strange!
 
Wow. The posts keep getting more bizarre and the expectations to be spoon fed everything are at an all time high. I may just start a "C'Mon man!" Response to these type of BS posts.

OP, good luck. Hope your soon to be wife has a clue as to how insane some of your thought processes are. No need to reply...I'm out.
 
At least a little bit of science was addressed in all the posts so far.

Does it kill libido? The fact is I have read of it being done at exactly one gram a week of NPP, with no test, and the libido being non-existant, not just low. Oh, and he recovered just fine with his pct (i.e had natural test unlike the above assertion). Would anyone at least say nands reduce libido (which is obvious).

DNP and T3 were not included for anything to do with libido.

>>
What will happen however is that you're going to likely catabolize lean mass,
>>

Exactly how? Can you mention any examples?

google: can-deca-only-gains-kept-163215.html


>>
I really hate it when folks start a thread thinking they can reinvent the wheel and state that they don't want advice unless someone else has made the same god-awful mistake. Look, you're taking a huge risk here of never being able to make testosterone naturally again, EVER.
>>

I am here for advice, not guffaws, and jokes. Wheels work just fine, I am not denying advice. I posted with only the stipulation of trying no test. That is it. And do you really think by adding test to the above cycle, I can never make test again. Test shuts you down. Sorry, there are many who do high nand with hcg and can make test after a proper pct. But please educate me with some science. Do you deny the protective effects of hcg and hmg on cycle?

I do want to learn. I did post did I not? I did ask for input, no?

>>
but I didn't see any mention of a dopamine agonist or other ancillaries that are required for a SANE cycle
>>

Again, please explain. Just because I am not adding test NOW does not mean I somehow do not learn. This is illogical.
Back to reason:
1. Why a dopamine agonist?
2. What other ancillaries are you referring to?

Why am I doing this? I have a large amount of work to concentrate on; I am not the only one that says lack of a libido helps concentration. One recent example is Boston Loyd.

Look, here's the problem; I have seen the word libido misused so many times it's not even funny. For the purposes of this thread, (not calling you stupid, but you may have misinterpreted some in your research) I want to define libido as the strong urge or desire to have sexual intercourse or contact.

Megatron28 provided some studies for you, so I don't believe that posting more will prove my point in that matter. My question is WHY do you want to diminish this? You cite the infamous Loyd, which while I appreciate his candor, is NOT someone should be taking advice from - at all. Concentration and libido have very little to do with each other unless you're say in school and can't focus because Suzy next to you is too hard to keep your eyes off instead of listening to the lecture, or job at hand as you indicated. Otherwise, it's just part of being human. (supraphysiological levels of androgens are a different topic altogether)

Sex drive (libido) in my experience is a fragile balancing act with estradiol (assuming that androgens exist). Nandrolone, being a 19-nor testosterone has a mild impact (as is trenbolone) on estradiol, but is a progestin. That means it has the potential to increase prolactin and progesterone. Those hormones have an inverse relationship with dopamine (reward stimulus hormone), and impact refractory post-coitus as well as the ability to achieve/maintain an erection on top of lactation in mammals. This is what a dopamine agonist is used for - to prevent the escalation of these hormones to prevent negative sexual side effects as well as keeping mood from faltering due to a decrease in dopamine. In fact, dopamine agonists are employed as an antidepressant due to the impact on the brain.

I have first hand experienced what can happen if prolactin is not kept under control as the strong urge to have sex is still there, but trying to "push rope" into the glory hole is beyond frustrating, and being unable to climax if it can be coaxed into cooperating is just no fun for either party involved. This was due to higher doses of a 19-nor, with less than optimal control of prolactin/estradiol. It took me several days to get it back under control, and gave me a healthy respect for the drugs.

Onto catabolism: You're proposal of including two very powerful drugs in order to (guessing here) lose body fat require a constant stream of testosterone as your metabolism will likely require androgens to prevent your body from seeking glucose via consuming muscle mass. While on a steady dose of nandrolone, your production of testosterone will be zero. HCG/HMG do NOT allow you to continue making testosterone while the negative feedback loop is engaged. So once you cease the nandrolone, you will have a difficult time recovering (19-nors are infamous for this) and will be lacking the ability to prevent this catabolism. Add T3 to the mix, and you WILL consume muscle mass on top of the possibility of being slightly insulin resistant (testosterone is a needed hormone for proper pancreatic function), leading to a potential LBM decrease and body fat increase. This information is easily available on Google, so I'll let you read up on that at your leisure.

I'm one of the few that do not automatically poo poo DNP, but it is a drug in itself that requires a tremendous amount of research prior to use as it operates in ways far different than any drug in our toolbox. Once your metabolism is compromised via intentional hypogonadism, your ATP will not be functioning properly, which not only defeats the purpose of the drug (that's its method of action), which means you'll be excreting some via skin pores, likely causing a nasty rash as it does react to the dermis.

Trenbolone is easily one of the most toxic drugs available and has not only the ability to cause issues for your liver, but it can impact your lipids and even immune suppression. You lack a form of liver support, adrenal support, and without a means of restoring healthy lipids (fish oil/MCT), risk damaging several systems at once. I want to give you a breakdown on all of these, but I'm already several paragraphs in, and really need to get my ass to the gym - so I invite you to read up here for these needed ancillary requirements. (I strongly recommend you stay away from tren anyway)

My advice at this point is to stay away from the drugs and instead learn how to focus via natural means such as meditation or even exercise. I don't care what Joe Blow on an Internet search may tell you - recovery of your HPTA is NEVER guaranteed. It's the reason why many on this board are on TRT for the rest of their lives. While the pursuit of physical perfection may seem like a silly risk to some, it is at least justified in that it cannot be achieved without the addition of AAS after a certain point. Being able to focus on a task at hand is completely different and has other pharmaceutical possibilities such as adderall.

I know I'm just another avatar on the internet, and my text may be nothing more than entertainment value, but the possible damage and pain this proposal may lead to are very real. I'd hate to see a thread from you in six months asking how to fix yourself because you didn't take heed here. The body is a delicate machine and you only get one; treat it accordingly.
 
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