First cycle was 500mg test and 30 mg dbol with nolva 40/40/20/20 pct. I ran my second cycle of test 600mg per week and 50/50/25/25 clomid and 40/40/20/20 nolva pct after cycle. Before my cycle test was 489. Pct was completed about 6 months ago and bloodwork followed 2 months later. Total test was in the 300's so I ran a week or two of nolva and clomid right after BW. Now its 4 months later and just got BW done yesterday with total test still in the 300's. What is the best way to revive natty test? I'm gonna run all the pct nolva and clomid I have. Any HCG necessary?
Using clomid and nolva months after pct to revive test
- Thread starter efiles123
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MarioKart64
New member
i don't know about restarting you natural production, but you could take clomid daily and it's gonna increase your test production without shutting you down. take 25mg daily for 2 weeks and get bloodwork done and see where your levels are at. it would obviously be better to have high natural test without the need of any type of drugs but given the circumstances i'd rather do clomid than be on trt
Strong Man
Over Train
No one can answer this question without looking at the blood work. FSH/LH??
Testosterone, Serum
Testosterone, Serum 338 LOW 348-1197 ng/dL 01
Comment: Comment 01
Adult male reference interval is based on a population of lean males
up to 40 years old.
Luteinizing Hormone(LH), S
LH 3.3 1.7-8.6 mIU/mL 01
FSH, Serum
FSH 1.1 LOW 1.5-12.4 mIU/mL 01
1 of 2Estradiol
Estradiol 24.1 7.6-42.6 pg/mL 01
Testosterone, Serum 338 LOW 348-1197 ng/dL 01
Comment: Comment 01
Adult male reference interval is based on a population of lean males
up to 40 years old.
Luteinizing Hormone(LH), S
LH 3.3 1.7-8.6 mIU/mL 01
FSH, Serum
FSH 1.1 LOW 1.5-12.4 mIU/mL 01
1 of 2Estradiol
Estradiol 24.1 7.6-42.6 pg/mL 01
OK, so I ran the bottle of hcg followed by a few weeks of nolva and clomid. I feel good and would like to get bloodwork done to check if I'm back to normal. How long until the nolva clears the system? I want to get BL done asap but don't want the nolva to interfere with the tests.
Is that right cuz 6 weeks seems a little long.
PrinceDianabol
Well-known member
You don't need to use hCG. Clomid alone should do the trick, given how low your LH & FSH are.
I would go 25mg monday wednesday friday or just every second day. And yes, you need to wait 6 weeks after stopping clomid to test blood. It has a rather long half life and will keep working long after you stop taking it. Getting bloods done any earlier would be useless.
STAUNCHED427
Elite Juicer
Clomid is by far a lot better than Nolva at stimulating LH, but for a lot will come with sides, myself included. Me and my doctor want to attempt to get my natty T levels back and I'll settle for nothing less than 500ng/dl and will reassess how things go every 3 months. If after a year it dips and there is no improvement, it's back to TRT.
I'll be using hCG and Toremifene as my SERM over Clomid, simply because Clomid makes me feel like absolute fucking garbage and would rather the feeling of low test over Clomid if it puts it into perspective and I believe hCG is king for PCT. If I could choose to run only one thing for PCT whether it be a SERM or hCG, and this is a hypothetical situation and for anyone reading this if you have access to hCG you must still use a SERM if you are doing PCT, it would be to run hCG. Back in the days of the Arnie era, the claims of never running PCT were true for a lot, but their idea of PCT was actually just running hCG believe it or not. Clomid (I don't think) and AI's weren't around and Nolva was used as an Anti-Estrogen.
On the other hand, it's ironic how PrinceDbol feels fine on Clomid, you lucky fucker lol.
Otherwise yes, 4-6 weeks after stopping SERMS will give you a good idea of where your system is running on it's own.
If anyone was interested my protocol for coming off will be 300iu hCG 2x weekly for the next 8 weeks along with 150mg Test (reduction of 50mg) as the hCG will make up for that loss. Drop the Test and then blast the hCG at 750iu+ .5mg Adex EOD (2500iu per week) for 4 weeks (by then all exogenous Test will have been metabolised) and then switch over to 60mg of Toremifene only for 6 weeks and get bloodwork/see how I feel. I may make slight adjustments to this protocol which I plan on starting in a week or two.
I'll be using hCG and Toremifene as my SERM over Clomid, simply because Clomid makes me feel like absolute fucking garbage and would rather the feeling of low test over Clomid if it puts it into perspective and I believe hCG is king for PCT. If I could choose to run only one thing for PCT whether it be a SERM or hCG, and this is a hypothetical situation and for anyone reading this if you have access to hCG you must still use a SERM if you are doing PCT, it would be to run hCG. Back in the days of the Arnie era, the claims of never running PCT were true for a lot, but their idea of PCT was actually just running hCG believe it or not. Clomid (I don't think) and AI's weren't around and Nolva was used as an Anti-Estrogen.
On the other hand, it's ironic how PrinceDbol feels fine on Clomid, you lucky fucker lol.
Otherwise yes, 4-6 weeks after stopping SERMS will give you a good idea of where your system is running on it's own.
If anyone was interested my protocol for coming off will be 300iu hCG 2x weekly for the next 8 weeks along with 150mg Test (reduction of 50mg) as the hCG will make up for that loss. Drop the Test and then blast the hCG at 750iu+ .5mg Adex EOD (2500iu per week) for 4 weeks (by then all exogenous Test will have been metabolised) and then switch over to 60mg of Toremifene only for 6 weeks and get bloodwork/see how I feel. I may make slight adjustments to this protocol which I plan on starting in a week or two.
STAUNCHED427
Elite Juicer
Just to add a little extra, received a PM... This applys here so thought I would post it up
Yes absolutely, hCG can cause the leydig sells to desensitise if the dose is high enough and for prolonged periods. hCG used correctly, typically for a TRT protocol ~200mg Test/1mg Adex/500iu hCG all split up throughout the week is perfectly fine and replicates something close to the equivalent of natural leydig cell stimulation from natural levels of LH.
750iu of hCG EOD for 4 weeks is enough to wake the balls up so to speak, however I will be running the 250iu along with my TRT protocol as if it was how I would be running it if I was to use hCG. It is also a trial for me to see how I respond to having hCG in the mix with my Test and Adex as a lot of guys report it brings back the sense of well-being that is lost in some cases. It must have something to do with downstream hormones from Pregnelone that is shut down from exogenous Test administration/LH shut down.
If I feel better with hCG I may just continue on, however if I come off, my testicles will have been running for 3 months so I can come off the Test and be running on my natural systems. Which brings in the question, yes hCG is suppressive to to HPTA in that in will stop LH/FSH like AAS will do and this is why you don't need to run a SERM with hCG (in that it also will stimulate LH along with the exogenous hCG causing possibly too much stimulation of the leydig cells), however the systems that LH/FSH stimulate will already be running so it is just a matter of the hCG clearing out and then LH signal comes on fairly quickly and takes over what hCG was doing with (and this is the idea) no lag in recovery waiting for your testicles to come back on and your body pumping out estrogen to compensate whilst at the same time that estrogen is keeping you shut down via negative feedback.
Dropping the hCG and then switching to Toremifene will stimulate LH levels naturally somewhat as well, whilst also blocking breast tissue preventing and/or removing any existing gyno and take care of any extra e2 that is associated with a recovering HPTA... I may even get bloods done mid-way through Toremifene to see where everything is at and use an AI to keep e2 controlled as well but I don't think it will be necessary.
hiram1st said:
Yes absolutely, hCG can cause the leydig sells to desensitise if the dose is high enough and for prolonged periods. hCG used correctly, typically for a TRT protocol ~200mg Test/1mg Adex/500iu hCG all split up throughout the week is perfectly fine and replicates something close to the equivalent of natural leydig cell stimulation from natural levels of LH.
750iu of hCG EOD for 4 weeks is enough to wake the balls up so to speak, however I will be running the 250iu along with my TRT protocol as if it was how I would be running it if I was to use hCG. It is also a trial for me to see how I respond to having hCG in the mix with my Test and Adex as a lot of guys report it brings back the sense of well-being that is lost in some cases. It must have something to do with downstream hormones from Pregnelone that is shut down from exogenous Test administration/LH shut down.
If I feel better with hCG I may just continue on, however if I come off, my testicles will have been running for 3 months so I can come off the Test and be running on my natural systems. Which brings in the question, yes hCG is suppressive to to HPTA in that in will stop LH/FSH like AAS will do and this is why you don't need to run a SERM with hCG (in that it also will stimulate LH along with the exogenous hCG causing possibly too much stimulation of the leydig cells), however the systems that LH/FSH stimulate will already be running so it is just a matter of the hCG clearing out and then LH signal comes on fairly quickly and takes over what hCG was doing with (and this is the idea) no lag in recovery waiting for your testicles to come back on and your body pumping out estrogen to compensate whilst at the same time that estrogen is keeping you shut down via negative feedback.
Dropping the hCG and then switching to Toremifene will stimulate LH levels naturally somewhat as well, whilst also blocking breast tissue preventing and/or removing any existing gyno and take care of any extra e2 that is associated with a recovering HPTA... I may even get bloods done mid-way through Toremifene to see where everything is at and use an AI to keep e2 controlled as well but I don't think it will be necessary.
Here is a chart of bw results. They start in feb 2011 which was 4 months after my first cycle. The next column is June 2013 which was 6 months before second cycle. Third column is mid cycle and 4th column is 2 to 3 months after pct. the rest is just regular check ups. The last column is 8 weeks after I ran a bottle of hcg followed by clomid/nolva for 4 weeks.
View attachment 560622
View attachment 560622
PrinceDianabol
Well-known member
You only got to 1,100ng/dl on cycle? Not sure why you thought running hCG was going to help when the issue is at your pituitary.
anzel
New member
I think his lab has a max level of test. So his test was over that number but we dont know how much
PrinceDianabol
Well-known member
I dunno... normally they would cut it off at a rounded number (1000 or 1500 or whatever.) And it should say " > 1,100ng/dl "
Ya I think some of my gear was under dosed but seemed to be effective.
PrinceDianabol
Well-known member
I'm not surprised considering you were almost hypo lol.
STAUNCHED427
Elite Juicer
1100ng/dl on cycle? Shit, I cruise at 1800ng/dl... (250mg Test E) Had to be underdosed shit.
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