Want to confirm some things on HCG

[DeepSea4Life]

Hey guys, Please anyone who reads this give me some feed back if you know what you're talking about and or have experience with HCG.

So what I understand is that HCG is great with cycles. Also, its potentially very harmful if you're not careful with dosages because the body can become dependent.. I plan to run hcg starting basically immediately with my cycle at 250 iu every 4-5 days. And stop right before pct. With this being said heres my questions


1. should I administer more often than 4-5 days? From my reading this should be enough but I feel like I should ask. eg E 3.5 days

2. Which would ultimately bring my Natty back faster with less loss in gains, HCG with testosterone to PCT, or after test injections stop and through pct only?

3. Any opinions on the administering of HCG I understand a 1'' needle is ok. will it have the same effect in your experience into the deeper muscle with a 1.5''? and anything wrong with putting a water and oil based chem in the same syringe?


TY

 

[THE-DET-OAK]

I don't understand what you mean become "dependent" on HCG. Sorry that doesn't make any sense. If your taking exogenous AAS your already going to be suppressed.

Doing any kind of HPTA restart without HCG is like pissing in the wind.

Let me know if that makes sense.

 

[DeepSea4Life]

I don't understand what you mean become "dependent" on HCG. Sorry that doesn't make any sense. If your taking exogenous AAS your already going to be suppressed.

Doing any kind of HPTA restart without HCG is like pissing in the wind.

Let me know if that makes sense.

yes it makes sense, but. High doses of HCG have been seen to permanently damage HPTA and make it somewhat dependent. so If you run a cycle without hcg your body may shut down more and you may take longer to get to your NATTY level but on the flip side, by using hcg incorrectly you can make the Natural test factory in your body reliant on a foreign chemical to rebound to its previous production of Natty

 

[THE-DET-OAK]

High doses of HCG have been seen to permanently damage HPTA and make it somewhat dependent.

Thats a total myth and all stems from 1 single study on rat balls. If you do the math the dosages would equal 10,000IU single dosages continuously. So yea if you take two bottles at a time you might have a problem.

Another study (abstract below) cited by another forum is "Tang P-Z, Tsai-Morris CH, Dufau ML. Regulation of 3{beta}-Hydroxysteroid Dehydrogenase in Gonadotropin-Induced Steroidogenic Desensitization of Leydig Cells. Endocrinology 1998;139(11):4496-505." THIS IS A STUDY IN RATS!!! This expert is so desperate to prove him/herself. they cite rat studies. If we were to translate this study to humans, which is fraught with so many pitfalls, the easiest method is by dose (IU/kg). The dose for the rats is 100-125 IU/kg. For a 75 kg human, this would be 7,500 IU or more. A dose more than FDA approved, used clinically, and what they claim to cause hCG desensitization.

With that being said here is a study showing that 1500IU 3x per week for 23 MONTHS kept TT levels in upper end of normal range:

Steroidogenic responsiveness to long term hCG administration (1500 U three times a week for 23 months) was characterized in 8 males with hypogonadotropic hypogonadism (HH). During hCG treatment, testosterone (T), which was in the prepuberal range under basal conditions, rose considerably to the upper end of the normal range and remained at that level during the 23 months of observation. A 2.5-fold increase was observed in serum levels of 17{beta}-estradiol (E2) an increment less than seen with T. The increment in 17{alpha}-hydroxyprogesterone was also lower than that in T throughout the study; thus, the 17{alpha}-hydroxyprogesterone to T ratio, despite continuous hCG administration, remained low. Serum androstenedione was slightly increased during hCG therapy. No significant changes were observed in serum levels of dehydroepiandrosterone. These data indicate that continuous long term hCG administration stimulated T levels in HH, with a relatively small change in E2. The kinetics of the T and E2 responses to 2000 U hCG, evaluated after 23 months of therapy, indicated that the testicular response was markedly reduced. No increment in T levels was observed at 24 h; the maximal response occurred at 48 h. This pattern of T response supports the idea that partial testicular desensitization occurs in HH patients receiving chronic treatment with hCG.

http://www.steroidology.com/forum/anabolic-steroid-forum/156877-hcg-desensitization-does-exist.html

Hope this helps.

 

[DeepSea4Life]

Thats a total myth and all stems from 1 single study on rat balls. If you do the math the dosages would equal 10,000IU single dosages continuously. So yea if you take two bottles at a time you might have a problem.



With that being said here is a study showing that 1500IU 3x per week for 23 MONTHS kept TT levels in upper end of normal range:



http://www.steroidology.com/forum/anabolic-steroid-forum/156877-hcg-desensitization-does-exist.html

Hope this helps.

Well thanks for the info, can you give me insight on the other concerns? Better to do with test or after injections stop and through pct and is it fine to put it into the deep muscle instead of subcontaneous a tissue

 

[bigben66]

OP:

Personally I'd run HCG @ 250iu every 3.5 days from week 1 of cycle until 3 days before PCT.

 

[THE-DET-OAK]

OP:

Personally I'd run HCG @ 250iu every 3.5 days from week 1 of cycle until 3 days before PCT.

Why? What evidence do you have of men on androgens to support that statement?

 

[THE-DET-OAK]

We retrospectively reviewed the records of hypogonadal men treated with testosterone replacement therapy and concomitant low dose human chorionic gonadotropin. Testosterone replacement consisted of daily topical gel or weekly intramuscular injection with intramuscular human chorionic gonadotropin (500 IU) every other day. Serum and free testosterone, estradiol, semen parameters and pregnancy rates were evaluated before and during therapy.

Concomitant intramuscular human chorionic gonadotropin preserves spermatogenesis in men undergoing testosterone replacement therapy. - PubMed - NCBI

 

[bigben66]

I have 15 years of evidence that it worked for me!

I wouldn't recommend that plan of attack otherwise.

I only EVER recommend anything that I have personally experienced and found works for me.