Wanting to start first cycle...

[MattyIce]

He might react well to it. If he chose prop then he better fucking man up and expect some pip. I'm glad this kid did his research even though he is a bit young IMO. A long ester would be better only because of the pip issue.

why do people associate PIP with propionate. If your prop is causing pip... its garbage. Unless you its var in oily solution, that shit hurts like a mofo. lol

OP... you too young. Advice from me would be condoling what you doing. Fuck yourself up if you want. You've been warned.

 

[PrinceDianabol]

Prince I totally understand your take on the diet and I will adjust and hit a high caloric intake. On the side of damaging test levels. There is a risk of that no matter what age you cycle at. I'm wondering what the main concerns are for a 20 year old that wouldn't apply to everyone? Is it the effect on the brain and mental development? Because physically I don't believe im going to grow any more or anything.

Halfwit what is the physiological maturity that you speak of? Could you elaborate on this at all and the dangers involved thank you.

I take what you both are saying seriously and won't jump into this without being completely sure. that's why I have taken so much time already to research and know everything I can so I do it correctly. I appreciate the advice a lot and will think about the long term effects. With damaging natural test levels weather I cycle now or in 5 years there will still be the same risk that I won't recover completely... Isn't that something you have to deal with when you decide to use aas?

Well, I must admit you certainly seem mature/sensible for your age. However, as Half mentioned, there is a big difference between psychological maturity and physiological.

Here are a few studies for you to review on the effects of AAS on an underdeveloped endocrine system: (thanks to Rip for providing these!)

http://press.endocrine.org/doi/abs/10.1210/jc.2010-0435

Androgenic anabolic steroid exposure during adolescence: ramificati... - PubMed - NCBI

The influence of age of onset and acute anabolic steroid exposure o... - PubMed - NCBI


The first one basically outlines a significant reduction in testosterone levels. You are correct in saying that there are risks involved for everyone that uses AAS, but as I said earlier there isn't so much as "risk" in people your age, as a consequence. You can't really get around it. In fully developed men we may recover to slightly lower TT levels with each cycle. Limiting use to one or two cycles may not result in much noticeable damage. Ongoing cycles likely would eventually, and it is possible someone might not recover at all.

What I'm getting at here is waiting til your 25ish you might not notice much difference in TT at all after a couple cycles. Doing a single cycle now pretty much WILL result in a significant reduction. You will notice the difference in libido, energy and mood. It might mean the difference in becoming hypogonadal at 20-25 years old instead of 50-60 years old.

This is from the second study:

The evidence suggests that the use of AAS during this critical period of development may increase the risk for maladaptive behaviours along with neurological disorders.

And the third:

Adolescent onset was associated with greater impulsivity and more acute sensitivity to AAS effects on attention. These preliminary findings suggest the possibility that acute AAS use is associated with some differences in inhibitory control and impulsivity and to a lesser degree, aggression. These effects may be more potent for those initiating AAS use in adolescence.

These two basically outline the possibility of behavioural/psychological changes that can occur with AAS use in younger men.

Hope this helps guide your decision.

 

[bigben66]

Just enjoy that bounteous natural source of T you have at 20 while you've got it OP....

Trust me, you'll never have it so good as you have it now!

Only take the plunge once you HAVE to.

It only took 3 years of AAS use to get me on TRT. At 40 (with low T symptoms beforehand) that was a risk I was willing to take.

But if you suffer the same consequences at 23, that's a long LONG life of pinning just to get a hard on. A long duration of explaining to girlfriends why you need a needle to have sex and Cialis is your new best friend.

You seem an intelligent lad OP - spend that hard earned cash on some dietary advice. There's still plenty of gains to be made with the tools you already have!

 

[Hoss_12]

I'm going to have to consider all that information before I start. Those studies are very interesting. Thank you all for you help and opinions. To halfwit I have searched a lot on the Internet and found what I could but finding things that are true and fact is difficult when there is a lot of media inflated crap out there also. I am very new to this so finding reliable sources for steroid specific questions is not always easy. What is a good place to start if I decide not to take aas? Any other recommendation to keep growing?

 

[MattyIce]

I'm going to have to consider all that information before I start. Those studies are very interesting. Thank you all for you help and opinions. To halfwit I have searched a lot on the Internet and found what I could but finding things that are true and fact is difficult when there is a lot of media inflated crap out there also. I am very new to this so finding reliable sources for steroid specific questions is not always easy. What is a good place to start if I decide not to take aas? Any other recommendation to keep growing?

broham... get with a personal trainer, not at Planet Fitness. lol And research diet.

 

[oldmusclemike]

I'm only going to touch on this once - but you are sure you are happy to live with sub-par testosterone levels for the rest of your life? This isn't really just a "risk" - at 20yr's old your pretty much guaranteed to have lower levels of test for the rest of your life if you cycle now. As to how much lower, well.. that can vary.. but you won't ever feel the "same," I can assure you. I know because I made that mistake when I was too young, and now I can't go back. But if your prepared to live with the consequences it's your choice...

Onto your cycle. Looks fine and well set up. But the dietary intake your proposing is making your cycle pretty much pointless. If your not eating enough you won't grow. On that, I can see you putting on a couple lbs of LBM. Is that really worth the permanent damage??? Lol.

You need to be at a 500cal surplus. 1.5g/lb of protein. Keep your diet in check and you won't get that much fatter - with the higher protein+caloric intake you should be gaining muscle roughly as fast as fat. Should keep you roughly the same bf%.

Also, run hCG up til 2-3 days before PCT.


Good luck.

This advice ^^^^^ is the most sound advice so far given. You don't want to hear it but you are TOO young. At your age you have enough Test you need. WE all have plateaus. You need to probably change your diet as well as your workout routine.

Get diet and workout help on here. Lay it all out and give us detailed workout routine. You should make very good gains at your age without aas. You will just fill up with fat and water to make your size but you need that LMM and there is a way to train for just that. LMM every workout to failure and beyond.
You can get real help on here without aas and it WILL workout for you.

 

[Hoss_12]

This advice ^^^^^ is the most sound advice so far given. You don't want to hear it but you are TOO young. At your age you have enough Test you need. WE all have plateaus. You need to probably change your diet as well as your workout routine.

Get diet and workout help on here. Lay it all out and give us detailed workout routine. You should make very good gains at your age without aas. You will just fill up with fat and water to make your size but you need that LMM and there is a way to train for just that. LMM every workout to failure and beyond.
You can get real help on here without aas and it WILL workout for you.

I don't think I've acted like I didn't want to hear that I am to young. I acknowledged that most people recommend waiting till 24-25 and I explained why I felt it was ok for me to use in my firt post. I also explained how I felt im getting close to my genetic limit. I have taken everyone's advice with thankfulness and being interested in what everyone has to say. I've kept asking questions not to show that I don't feel that I am to young but to keep learning effects for use at my age which was provided greatly and I enjoyed reading those articles. I am leaning towards waiting a couple more years and trying to grow more naturally. I will post my diet and workout routine soon when I get a chance to type it all out.

 

[Hoss_12]

Monday/Thursday
Chest/tri
Tuesday/Friday
Back/bis
Wednesday/Saturday
Legs/shoulders
That's my usual split.
My workouts change frequently but it's 3-4 exercises with 3-4 sets each for every muscle group. I also do push-ups and abs every night.
My diet right now is about 3300 calories which is maintenance for me. I hit 250g protein 200G carb and I'm not completely sure on the fats. I cook all my own food I don't eat fast food or junk food. My carbs come from rice and whole wheat pasta and occasionally a bagel at breakfast. Protein is from traditional sources chicken, turkey, lean beef, and fish. I eat broccoli with lunch and dinner usually. I usually eat 5-6 meals and work my macros to fit my meal times. I also have a protein shake after I lift.

 

[halfwit]

I'm going to have to consider all that information before I start. Those studies are very interesting. Thank you all for you help and opinions. To halfwit I have searched a lot on the Internet and found what I could but finding things that are true and fact is difficult when there is a lot of media inflated crap out there also. I am very new to this so finding reliable sources for steroid specific questions is not always easy. What is a good place to start if I decide not to take aas? Any other recommendation to keep growing?

I try to stick with studies from pubmed or the like. Even then, you have to be able to discern between the bs studies that have an obvious bias and legitimate ones based on the variables and controls. It takes some time before reading them starts to make sense, but eventually you'll be able to.

Honestly, the biggest determinant when it comes to growth is diet. I'd put some serious effort into learning what you can about nutrition and incorporating in a training program. The diet section here is a wealth of information, and in fact, hiring 3J would easily be a worthwhile investment.

Fish oil, creatine, and a good multivitamin are easily enough to get you on your way. The drugs will still be there when you're ready for them.