Welp...i'm back off the hCG and AI... :(

[Want2FeelGood]

So my clinic was getting to expensive. The drive was to long. And I am moving soon so my budget is going to be tighter than a airlock sandwich bag.
I went to my primary and told him what my protocol was. He said he didn't feel comfortable prescribing hCG and Arimidex still. So I will just be taking the Testosterone Cypionate.

I will still be taking the 160mg of Cyp every week. I'm going to split it into 2 doses a week of 80mg. So at least I will be going back to twice weekly injections, and I wont need the AI. So there is a silver lining. Plus it will save me $75 a week in clinic costs and gas.

Anyone think besides the ball shrinkage that I will start feeling any different. Better? Worse?

Before I started the clinic I was self injecting 50mg 2x a week. So I will be upping the injections dosage from then, but that's about it.

 

[Alpin]

Something tells me your doc won't be so uppity enthusiastic when he sees your levels at 80 mg twice a week...
I'm guessing 50 mg twice a week kept you at 700-800 TT??
I would run private labs first before going in to re test for your doc.

 

[Megatron28]

What makes you think you won't need an AI?

 

[STAUNCHED427]

Absolutely, you will need an AI. Get dialled in properly. Test alone isn't an ideal protocol unless you like high e2... 95% of guys will need an AI at those TRT doses.

I assume you weren't running an AI at 50mg 2x a week... Either you were replacing whatever test you were producing at 100mg a week and need more, OR your e2 was elevated coutneracting the benefits you should feel (my bet is on the former)... But this is where bloodwork comes in. You can only truly dial in TRT with bloodwork. Although, 100-200mg per week, split 2x weekly along with .25mg Adex-.5mg adex with each shot is a good place to start and adjust accordingly via bloodwork.

 

[Alpin]

Absolutely, you will need an AI. Get dialled in properly. Test alone isn't an ideal protocol unless you like high e2... 95% of guys will need an AI at those TRT doses.

I assume you weren't running an AI at 50mg 2x a week... Either you were replacing whatever test you were producing at 100mg a week and need more, OR your e2 was elevated coutneracting the benefits you should feel (my bet is on the former)... But this is where bloodwork comes in. You can only truly dial in TRT with bloodwork. Although, 100-200mg per week, split 2x weekly along with .25mg Adex-.5mg adex with each shot is a good place to start and adjust accordingly via bloodwork.

80 mg E3D T and 500 i.u. HCG E3D had my Estradiol climbing plenty.

 

[STAUNCHED427]

Yep granted everyone is different... You will need at least a low dose AI to keep things controlled.

 

[Want2FeelGood]

Apollon - Yeah good call. He would be happy if my levels were at 301 ng/dl. He is truly... in all aspects of the word... a moron. I think i'm going to have to miss a few days by accident before the level check. Its in 3 months so I have time. The 50mg twice a week kept me in the 500's.

Mega - I guess I didn't think I would need one because its only 80mg. Which come to think of it, I will. When I was doing 50-60mg twice a week it was high, I guess I didn't think that through.

Staunched - Yeah your probably right. My estradiol level (I believe) was in the 30's while on 50-60mg twice a week. Only problem is with this primary doctor no AI will be available. Unless there is a way of obtaining a AI without him?

 

[Chiefy]

For what it's worth, I'm on 80mg 2x/wk and 400iu hCG 2x/wk and I don't need an AI. I guess I'm just lucky.

But yea, it sounds like you may need one if 50mg 2x/wk had your E2 at 30, a dose increase is probably going to warrant a low dose AI.

 

[STAUNCHED427]

Yeah 300ng/dl is not good. If 500mg put you at ~500 you probably could have gotten away without an AI. But as Chiefy just posted, everyone is different and some can get away without it. A jump to 160mg shuld get you 7-800, I'd personally go to 180-200mg for maximum benefit.

If the doctor won't provide an AI, he is a shit doctor but we've been through this. If you need an AI, just get your own, RUI stock AI's. You need bloodwork to confirm where you e2 is at and properly dial your protocol in!

 

[Alpin]

Yeah 300ng/dl is not good. If 500mg put you at ~500 you probably could have gotten away without an AI. But as Chiefy just posted, everyone is different and some can get away without it. A jump to 160mg shuld get you 7-800, I'd personally go to 180-200mg for maximum benefit.

If the doctor won't provide an AI, he is a shit doctor but we've been through this. If you need an AI, just get your own, RUI stock AI's. You need bloodwork to confirm where you e2 is at and properly dial your protocol in!

They're scared too...dont forget.
For their own necks. They didn't go to school all those years to help some guy they don't know and get in deep doo doo.
lol

 

[Alpin]

For what it's worth, I'm on 80mg 2x/wk and 400iu hCG 2x/wk and I don't need an AI. I guess I'm just lucky.

But yea, it sounds like you may need one if 50mg 2x/wk had your E2 at 30, a dose increase is probably going to warrant a low dose AI.

Are you lean ?
What b.f % are you?

 

[Chiefy]

Are you lean ?
What b.f % are you?

I have no idea what my body fat percentage is, but yea, I'm a pretty lean guy.

I'm 5'9" and 165 lbs.

 

[Alpin]

I have no idea what my body fat percentage is, but yea, I'm a pretty lean guy.

I'm 5'9" and 165 lbs.

There you go....
lol
better for you anyway.
whats your TT and Estradiol at peak on your protocol?

 

[Chiefy]

There you go....
lol
better for you anyway.
whats your TT and Estradiol at peak on your protocol?

80mg Test Cyp and 400iu hCG e3.5d puts my TT at 1050 and my sensitive E2 at 30 a little more than 48 hours after injection.

 

[STAUNCHED427]

80mg Test Cyp and 400iu hCG e3.5d puts my TT at 1050 and my sensitive E2 at 30 a little more than 48 hours after injection.

I'd aim for results like that, maybe go a little lower on the hCG and bump the test up and I'd be happy.

 

[Alpin]

80mg Test Cyp and 400iu hCG e3.5d puts my TT at 1050 and my sensitive E2 at 30 a little more than 48 hours after injection.

Whats the range for sensitive estradiol at that lab?
you take both HCG and T same day?
You're s lucky guy...lol
80 mg E3D would put me at 1800 TT lol

 

[Chiefy]

I'd aim for results like that, maybe go a little lower on the hCG and bump the test up and I'd be happy.

I found that I need a little more hCG than most guys to keep my testicles where I'd like them to be. On smaller doses I was still having some discomfort, and my sack was just tight all the time.

Whats the range for sensitive estradiol at that lab?
you take both HCG and T same day?
You're s lucky guy...lol
80 mg E3D would put me at 1800 TT lol

The range is 3-70.

I inject at both meds at the same time because I was having some trouble keeping my E2 up. It's also just more convenient. After reading hundreds of stories from people struggling to keep their E2 from going through the roof, I definitely consider myself to be VERY lucky to have the opposite problem.

 

[Alpin]

I found that I need a little more hCG than most guys to keep my testicles where I'd like them to be. On smaller doses I was still having some discomfort, and my sack was just tight all the time.



The range is 3-70.

I inject at both meds at the same time because I was having some trouble keeping my E2 up. It's also just more convenient. After reading hundreds of stories from people struggling to keep their E2 from going through the roof, I definitely consider myself to be VERY lucky to have the opposite problem.

It's very very likely cause your lean....
so that 3-70 pg/ml on sensitive scale is like a 6-140 in pg/ml on a regular assay?
Regular assay is less than 42 pg/ml for Estradiol.
I've been told by you guys that use the sensitive assay that regular assay is double what the sensitive assay is?
My question is whats what and how do we know for certain sensitive assays are a useful tool in estradiol management?
I'm not attacking it....Just interested to know more about it.

 

[Alpin]

80mg Test Cyp and 400iu hCG e3.5d puts my TT at 1050 and my sensitive E2 at 30 a little more than 48 hours after injection.

Thats about 160 mg a week of Test. Same as OP.
comes to 640 mg a month.
if you did 80 mg E3D(3x10=30) you would be at 800 mg a month...
see the diff with E3D vs. E3.5D shots?

 

[Chiefy]

It's very very likely cause your lean....
so that 3-70 pg/ml on sensitive scale is like a 6-140 in pg/ml on a regular assay?
Regular assay is less than 42 pg/ml for Estradiol.
I've been told by you guys that use the sensitive assay that regular assay is double what the sensitive assay is?
My question is whats what and how do we know for certain sensitive assays are a useful tool in estradiol management?
I'm not attacking it....Just interested to know more about it.

The range for the standard E2 test at Labcorp is 7.6-42.6 pg/ml. The sensitive assay is 3-70, also in pg/ml.

My standard assay E2 values have been roughly 20 pg/ml higher than the result of my sensitive tests. I've seen other people report that there was more than a 30 pg/ml discrepancy on their tests.

The standard assay is meant to be for women, and not accurate for detecting the small amounts of E2 that men have. Here in the US, any doctor that is well versed in TRT knows to use a sensitive or ultra sensitive test for this reason.

The standard test seems to be fairly accurate at detecting E2 in men when levels are significantly elevated, but at the numbers we're aiming for, its no good. I just don't trust it though. I have low E2 and its proven to be very innaccurate for me.