what adjustments to your training do you make while on cycle?

[weavy88]

Specifically, what do you do to try and maximize your results while on cycle? What programs do you recommend? I think i'm going to be doing 5/3/1/ for my next training cycle on gear. Please comment and share

 

[Mrrippedzilla]

Let's reverse the question a little bit:

- Why would you change your normal program just because your on cycle?

If your off cycle program is optimal (read my thread to know how to make it optimal), then there is no reason whatsoever to change anything.

Drugs don't require a special programme to work, they simply work BETTER for an already dialled in, optimal programme.

 

[Roush]

As the compounds begin to kick in I up my volume and increase my workouts time,, I also feel more confident hitting a muscle group more often,, because of enhanced recovery , nitrogen retention, glycogen stores etc., that the AAS has added,,,, plus I'm eating more calories on cycle

 

[cybrsage]

I increase my weight a lot faster while bulking - well, this is my first bulk and that is what is happening - but other than that it is the same one that I slowly increased the weight using while I was cutting.

 

[halfwit]

I eat more gym rats and adolescent boys popping dbol in the locker room while on.

I don't really change my training other than I'm able to push a little further before I experience complete failure. Well, that and I try not to eye-fuck too many of the gals as that tends to get me in trouble between sets.

 

[weavy88]

Let's reverse the question a little bit:

- Why would you change your normal program just because your on cycle?

If your off cycle program is optimal (read my thread to know how to make it optimal), then there is no reason whatsoever to change anything.

Drugs don't require a special programme to work, they simply work BETTER for an already dialled in, optimal programme.

Yes I definitely understand you on this bro. This is a good reason why newbs shouldn't fuck with steroids; because you can't learn anything about training while you're on them. Over the years I have learned much about training, but since steroids facilitate much faster recovery, i feel like my program should call for much faster progress

 

[AgeisjustaNumber]

My workouts have gotten heavier, longer and more often. Kinda like my desire to f@ck.

 

[Mrrippedzilla]

Yes I definitely understand you on this bro. This is a good reason why newbs shouldn't fuck with steroids; because you can't learn anything about training while you're on them. Over the years I have learned much about training, but since steroids facilitate much faster recovery, i feel like my program should call for much faster progress

But an optimal training programme off cycle is an optimal training programme on cycle because steroids alone will help you progress more on that already optimal programme.
Basically, the programme is still optimal - your rate of progress will simply be faster.

Changing an already optimal programme to include more volume because of the enhanced recovery means the programme is NOT optimal for muscle mass any more. Its simply an indication that your relying on the drugs more than the training.

IME, I haven't seen guys somehow get better results because they're using higher than recommended volume - drug dosing protocols being equal.Now I'm not saying that you cant get better results with higher than recommended volume, I'm simply pointing out that at best its a "maybe".

Instead of thinking "steroids mean I should use a different programme" you should be thinking "steroids allow me to achieve more on my current programme".
In other words, if it aint broke don't fix it

 

[ELicit23]

I've always wondered about this. If my off cycle program is a 5 day split, 1 muscle group a day... Then why can't I change it up to a 6 day split, 2 muscles a day (hitting the muscle twice a week 2 days apart) on cycle if the drugs make you heal faster and grow stronger?
If I'm taking something to push my healing time to the next level and increase my intensity beyond a natural point, then why NOT change up the regimen and push harder?

 

[Mrrippedzilla]

I've always wondered about this. If my off cycle program is a 5 day split, 1 muscle group a day... Then why can't I change it up to a 6 day split, 2 muscles a day (hitting the muscle twice a week 2 days apart) on cycle if the drugs make you heal faster and grow stronger?
If I'm taking something to push my healing time to the next level and increase my intensity beyond a natural point, then why NOT change up the regimen and push harder?

In your case, your current off cycle routine isn't optimal anyway IMO.
I've always recommended hitting the muscles twice per week, so your 6 day split sounds perfectly fine to be used year round - it certainly doesn't fall under the bracket of "pushing harder".

Now if you said something like training for 3 hours with double volume (see DLB's videos on youtube), or doing 10x10 for 5 exercises per muscle group, or using 10 exercises per muscle group, or training twice a day (chest morning, back evening, etc) THAT is when your training has become suboptimal and the drugs are doing all the work.

Hope that makes sense.

 

[Roush]

Train "optimally" year round naturally... Then when you blast gear train the exact same way so your NOT dependent on the gear .. You were supposedly optimal to begin with,, so train the same way!!??

Makes me think zilla has never even cycled himself.. Too focused on training nattys.


I'm all for training and dieting optimally year round... But when you add in gear , not neglecting the physiological effects of training on gear,,, IMO. You can't just train the same way as you do off gear and natural.... When on gear things MENTALLY change,, and that effects all things in life including your training..
Again, makes me think zilla is a great natural,trainer but not running gear himself

 

[Mrrippedzilla]

Train "optimally" year round naturally... Then when you blast gear train the exact same way so your NOT dependent on the gear .. You were supposedly optimal to begin with,, so train the same way!!??

Makes me think zilla has never even cycled himself.. Too focused on training nattys.


I'm all for training and dieting optimally year round... But when you add in gear , not neglecting the physiological effects of training on gear,,, IMO. You can't just train the same way as you do off gear and natural.... When on gear things MENTALLY change,, and that effects all things in life including your training..
Again, makes me think zilla is a great natural,trainer but not running gear himself

Psychological considerations (mental changes) are important. But psychological needs do NOT dictate physiological realities

Explain to me why you think optimal training as a natural is suddenly NOT optimal on gear?
In fact, explain to me why it wouldn't work EVEN BETTER on gear now that your in a really anabolic environment?

Considering biomechanics & skeletal muscle bioenergetics are the same (how your muscles react to training).
Considering the rate of tendon/joint adaptation is NEVER going to be quick enough on cycle regardless of how much you think recovery is enhanced.

This stupid idea that because your on gear, suddenly the routine that has been working for you isn't good enough any more.
I know, let's pump up the volume and change the routine that was WORKING because "mentally" I feel too alpha for this optimal bullshit. Plus I'm sure everyone knows how to suddenly design an expert programme specifically tailored to take advantage of being on cycle right? Oh wait...
My point is that more is NOT always better.

Go train balls to the wall every session, with double volume, on cycle when your recovery TEMPORARILY increases and come and tell me how you feel once you return to training off cycle.
After a few cycles, you'll realise that because your ego has made you train like a moron you can never train the same off cycle so you must stay "on" all the time - mentally & physically you become fucked without the drugs.
Then go and talk to the MANY members we have here who have had serious injures constantly through out the years - schredder, bigben and teutonic come to mind (I'm sure their are others).

And by the way, I mentioned on here several times that I haven't cycled though I wouldn't call myself a nattie anymore either (thermogenics & peptides galore).I am lucky enough to be in a position where I'm still youngish, making pretty good gains, bloodwork is optimal and there is no need for me to start cycling.
If that means I'm somehow not qualified to give diet & training advice to people on gear (some of my non-competing clients included) then your certainly entitled to your opinion. But many will disagree with you.

Also, I'm getting tired of you constantly trying to discredit me.
If you disagree with my view then by all means make your case but do NOT start insulting my credentials and getting personal - especially when you sent me a fucking PM last time apologising.

 

[ELicit23]

In your case, your current off cycle routine isn't optimal anyway IMO.
I've always recommended hitting the muscles twice per week, so your 6 day split sounds perfectly fine to be used year round - it certainly doesn't fall under the bracket of "pushing harder".

Now if you said something like training for 3 hours with double volume (see DLB's videos on youtube), or doing 10x10 for 5 exercises per muscle group, or using 10 exercises per muscle group, or training twice a day (chest morning, back evening, etc) THAT is when your training has become suboptimal and the drugs are doing all the work.

Hope that makes sense.

Yesssss that makes sense. Thanks. I wish I had time to do two-a-days. So right now on a cut I'm doing 5 day split... Usual to failure, heavy, intense... Squats, press, all the good stuff. My bulk cycle sill be intense. Do you think I should kick it up a notch? 6 day split? Maybe two a days on my days off? Does it also matter what kind of "supps" I'll be using?

 

[maurij1]

I train the same way on cycle as I do off, 5 days a week one body part a day. I may throw in an extra intense set or 2 each workout when I'm on cycle but that's about it. Only difference for me is off cycle I'm way more sore. Of course I'm almost 45 and I've been beating up my body solid for over 25 years naturally. I don't think I've ever had an optimal training program? I've followed many training programs throughout the years but have always come back to whatever feels good. If I'm not feeling it one day I'll cut back a little, if I feel good I kill it!

I'm to the point now that I'm thinking about just staying on permanently, I just feel so much better on. Thanks to all the info here and all the knowledgeable people I believe I can do it the correct way.

Now if they would only let me PM people......

 

[505jules]

As usual killin Zilla, thanks for the info!

And equally half might I say you have a way with words haha.

 

[Roush]

Psychological considerations (mental changes) are important. But psychological needs do NOT dictate physiological realities

Explain to me why you think optimal training as a natural is suddenly NOT optimal on gear?
In fact, explain to me why it wouldn't work EVEN BETTER on gear now that your in a really anabolic environment?

Considering biomechanics & skeletal muscle bioenergetics are the same (how your muscles react to training).
Considering the rate of tendon/joint adaptation is NEVER going to be quick enough on cycle regardless of how much you think recovery is enhanced.

This stupid idea that because your on gear, suddenly the routine that has been working for you isn't good enough any more.
I know, let's pump up the volume and change the routine that was WORKING because "mentally" I feel too alpha for this optimal bullshit. Plus I'm sure everyone knows how to suddenly design an expert programme specifically tailored to take advantage of being on cycle right? Oh wait...
My point is that more is NOT always better.

Go train balls to the wall every session, with double volume, on cycle when your recovery TEMPORARILY increases and come and tell me how you feel once you return to training off cycle.
After a few cycles, you'll realise that because your ego has made you train like a moron you can never train the same off cycle so you must stay "on" all the time - mentally & physically you become fucked without the drugs.
Then go and talk to the MANY members we have here who have had serious injures constantly through out the years - schredder, bigben and teutonic come to mind (I'm sure their are others).

And by the way, I mentioned on here several times that I haven't cycled though I wouldn't call myself a nattie anymore either (thermogenics & peptides galore).I am lucky enough to be in a position where I'm still youngish, making pretty good gains, bloodwork is optimal and there is no need for me to start cycling.
If that means I'm somehow not qualified to give diet & training advice to people on gear (some of my non-competing clients included) then your certainly entitled to your opinion. But many will disagree with you.

Also, I'm getting tired of you constantly trying to discredit me.
If you disagree with my view then by all means make your case but do NOT start insulting my credentials and getting personal - especially when you sent me a fucking PM last time apologising.

IN MY Opinion -- There is no such thing as ONE optimal training program that is working perfectly for a guy.. If you do that supposed "optimal" training week after week month after month your body simply adapts to it and then stops growing .. So training should always be tweaked and changed up to keep the body "shocked" and not adapting ----- The mental ALPHA MALE change that happens on gear makes for a good opportunity to tweak your training and shock your body into growth..

Even if your not on gear,, again, there is no one optimal training,, it has to change or your body simply adapts .. Note: sure there could be a routine and diet that a guy is doing and it's working great,, I suppose that is "optimal",, but it won't be for long

This is my opinion. -- you don't have to agree with it Zilla,, I'm not trying to discredit you or pick shit with you.. You make a valid argument and I'm sure many guys agree and do just as you do,, just because I disagree with you on one small point doesn't mean I'm trying to be an ass. . I sent you an apology PM on our last disagreement because I WAS purposely being an ass..

I'm not in this case, I simply just believe, for me at least,, that there is no 'one' optimal training program and that things should be changed up, and being on cycle is one time that changing things up and shocking the body into growth yields results (for me anyhow)..

Note: and I didn't know that you didn't run gear ,, congrats on studying and knowing all you know about AAS before ever making the plunge..

Now when you do decide to do gear and
When your testosterone levels reach 5000 ngnl and you feel like ripping 45 pound plates in half, fucking every chick in the gym,, killing every dude who happens to look you way,, We'll see if you train a bit differently then

 

[weavy88]

So training should always be tweaked and changed up to keep the body "shocked" and not adapting.

Adaptation is the physiological process by which you get bigger/stronger. If anything, steroids increase your body's rate of adaptation. I've always been a little skeptical of "muscle confusion". (although i've used the conjugate method with resounding success)

 

[Roush]

Adaptation is the physiological process by which you get bigger/stronger. If anything, steroids increase your body's rate of adaptation. I've always been a little skeptical of "muscle confusion". (although i've used the conjugate method with resounding success)

If incline benching 225 lbs for 10 reps for 5 sets is really working for you and helps develop your chest,, Then good.. But when your body adapts to that, knows what state it needs to be in for "survival" (your body is only interested in survival,, it knows or could cares less about weights).. Then your body simply adapts to where it needs to be and if week after week month after month year after year you keep benching 225 for 10 reps for 5 sets,, it's just gonna stay the same , it adapted to that,, it no longer needs to grow and change in order to survive

 

[3J]

so i see a point in both roushes and zillas arguments

1. staying on the same program for too long is never good (though i think zilla knows that and is pointing out that you should use the most optimal program regardless)

2. steroids will increase recovery time and allow for more output while on cycle, which is why people believe that they should "work harder"

but whatever environment you put your muscles in for growth has to be kept up..

so those who like to overtrain or double train while on cycle would have to keep that up off cycle to help sustain that muscle.. muscle reacts to damage caused by energy output.. if youre not consistently progressing and breaking down muscle in the process your muscles will be hindered.

here let me explain it like this..

youre a runner... you start running 1/4 mile a day and get very very good at it, very fast.. but if you were to run 6 miles after running the 1/4 mile for a year, your body is not trained for that type of exercise, though you will have improved your 6 mile from the 1/4 mile runs..

but if you train 6 miles a day every day your body will adjust to that environment and make you much better at the 6 mile run..

now lets take steroids into consideration... instead of running 6 miles.. you start running full marathons every day.. great, your body is able to recover much better on cycle and you become really good at full marathons daily..

now you come off cycle.. and you still want to run full marathons daily.. guess what, your hormones are out of wack and your cns starts to quickly disagree with you.. you cannot consistently keep up the full marathon runs daily..

 

[3J]

point is dont overwork your body regardless of what you are on..
always keep in mind that the quality of your time in the gym should supersede the quantity of time in the gym