100mg/5 days vs. 200mg/10 days....

Yes, you are thinking about this right. It sounds like your doctor is actually measuring your peak vs. your trough. That's somewhat unusual (that's why I wrote 'typically') and in that case the opposite reasoning applies: injecting more frequently helps keep your peak within range.

Well I actually brought up the idea to check trough because of research I've done on the forums and how 14 days is way too long of a injection frequency. I wanted to make sure that my highs werent too high and lows werent too low so we got numerous tests done to make sure. Once we saw that the trough was very low we lowered the frequency to 12 days. Then on my own I got blood drawn on day 10 to show the doc that 10 days should be the max I should wait before pinning again. He agreed we don't want test going any lower than it does on the trough day (about 550).
 
Definitely go to injecting every 5 days. There is too much variation between your peak and through. Your body is metabolizing the test very quickly - half-life of less than 5 days - which is faster than many people. You really need more frequent injections.

You might want to consider using small insulin needles like a 29 gauge half-inch needle. It fills slowly, but is less painful.

I may try a higher guage needle. I dont really have any problems as of yet with the 25 guage I've been using. Even 25 injects slowly, dont know if I wanna have to press even harder to get it in the muscle. I havent has the pleasure of hitting a nerve yet, knock on wood.
 
The only time I'd be happy with a E14D injection frequency was if it was test undecanoate. When I get older and tired of pinning 2x weekly, hopefully long estered test like Test Undecanoate can be availible in the same way Enanthate/Cypionate are in vials, not just Nebido and I will be happy pinning once a fortnight.
 
The only time I'd be happy with a E14D injection frequency was if it was test undecanoate. When I get older and tired of pinning 2x weekly, hopefully long estered test like Test Undecanoate can be availible in the same way Enanthate/Cypionate are in vials, not just Nebido and I will be happy pinning once a fortnight.

Yea the 14 day freq. is nuts IMO. It's the norm in the medical culture/industry because doctors want as few injections as possible and dont serach for the OPTIMAL frequency and dose, just wants to keep the liability lawsuits down.
 
Huh? no it won't. Not for the same total amount of medication.

Consider an extreme example: 400mg once a month (low frequency), vs. 50mg every 3.5 days (high frequency)

Which has the higher peak?

Consider my real life example...

once a week injection of 160mg...peak of 1200.

switched to 80mg every 3.5 days...had blood draw 2 days after injection....1485.

You tell me. It looks like it is WAY over the peak of once a week, and it was not even the real peak.
 
Consider my real life example...

once a week injection of 160mg...peak of 1200.

switched to 80mg every 3.5 days...had blood draw 2 days after injection....1485.

You tell me. It looks like it is WAY over the peak of once a week, and it was not even the real peak.

Well it's anecdotal and anomalous. You'd have to add a plausible explanation for me to seriously consider it.
Two days pretty much is peak - maybe you missed the peak on the 160mg test.
 
Last edited:
Consider my real life example...

once a week injection of 160mg...peak of 1200.

switched to 80mg every 3.5 days...had blood draw 2 days after injection....1485.

You tell me. It looks like it is WAY over the peak of once a week, and it was not even the real peak.

I think everyones different. Ill be getting blood work in a few weeks so we shall see....
 
Consider my real life example...
once a week injection of 160mg...peak of 1200.
switched to 80mg every 3.5 days...had blood draw 2 days after injection....1485.
You tell me. It looks like it is WAY over the peak of once a week, and it was not even the real peak.

My impression is that it takes time for the tect cyp to be absorbed and that the peak is about 2 days after injection. Perhaps the 1485 hit the peak and the 1200 was before the peak occurred.
 
Well it's anecdotal and anomalous. You'd have to add a plausible explanation for me to seriously consider it.
Two days pretty much is peak - maybe you missed the peak on the 160mg test.

I don't have any other explanation...I only changed the amount I inject (half of what I was), and the timing of injections (every 3.5 days vs once a week).

24-36 hours is enough to hit peak. I work in a lab, and ran my labs very frequently during the first 3-4 months of my treatment...which covers the time we are talking about.

Believe it or not, that's what happened. However, I understand that everyone is different.
 
I don't have any other explanation...I only changed the amount I inject (half of what I was), and the timing of injections (every 3.5 days vs once a week).

24-36 hours is enough to hit peak. I work in a lab, and ran my labs very frequently during the first 3-4 months of my treatment...which covers the time we are talking about.

Believe it or not, that's what happened. However, I understand that everyone is different.

I understand, and I'm sorry if I came off as dismissive. It's just that I can't draw the same conclusion from this that you did without some new information because it violates some basic assumptions:

We are assuming that every dose is independent of other doses... there is a rise in levels as the drug is metabolized, a peak, then a more or less exponential decay.

We are assuming that the effect of individual doses is purely additive, that is, your response to a dose in terms of level rise is independent of the current level.

The conclusion that you drew would require that there is some kind of linked effect, that - for example - your present levels of T make you metabolize a new dose more completely. I've never seen anything of the like proposed.
 
I understand, and I'm sorry if I came off as dismissive. It's just that I can't draw the same conclusion from this that you did without some new information because it violates some basic assumptions:

We are assuming that every dose is independent of other doses... there is a rise in levels as the drug is metabolized, a peak, then a more or less exponential decay.

We are assuming that the effect of individual doses is purely additive, that is, your response to a dose in terms of level rise is independent of the current level.

The conclusion that you drew would require that there is some kind of linked effect, that - for example - your present levels of T make you metabolize a new dose more completely. I've never seen anything of the like proposed.

The only thing that makes sense to me is this:

I don't think that I metabolized the 80mg dose before I added another 80mg dose, and it just kept adding on top of another, thereby giving me higher levels overall. This is the only thing that makes sense to me.
 
The only thing that makes sense to me is this:

I don't think that I metabolized the 80mg dose before I added another 80mg dose, and it just kept adding on top of another, thereby giving me higher levels overall. This is the only thing that makes sense to me.

Thats actually what I was thinking, in theory of course. I still dont think my peak will increase but then again it could be an individual thing. I personally appear to metabolize the Test quickly (I have a fast metabolism in general) so I don't think that in my case the peak will increase.

Will know in a few weeks and Ill be sure to update the thread. It would be good to know for future reference to others.
 
The only thing that makes sense to me is this:

I don't think that I metabolized the 80mg dose before I added another 80mg dose, and it just kept adding on top of another, thereby giving me higher levels overall. This is the only thing that makes sense to me.

No, that's a given - that's what I mean by doses being additive.

At the risk of beating this to death, allow me to construct an analogy:

You have a bucket. The bucket has a vertical row of holes in the side. When water is put in the bucket, it leaks out of the holes.
The higher the level of water in the bucket, the faster water leaks out because it is leaking out through more holes.
This simulates exponential decay.

Now you are allowed to add one gallon of water to the bucket every minute. At the extremes, you can dump it all in at once, or you can pour it in steadily over the course of the minute.

If you pour it in steadily (one gallon per minute), the water will rise to a level where the number of leaking holes allows a flow rate equal to the rate at which you are pouring water in. (this would be analogous to a medication drip). There are no ups and downs at all in the water level of the bucket.

At the other extreme, you dump the gallon of water all in at once. The bucket will briefly be at it's highest level and leak at a decreasing rate until the minute is up, when you add another gallon. The swings in water level are greatest in this scenario.

Every other subdivision of adding water to the bucket has to fall between these two extremes. It isn't plausible that there is some magic "middle ground" strategy to adding water to the bucket that will result in a higher peak water level than dumping it all in at once.
 
No, that's a given - that's what I mean by doses being additive.

At the risk of beating this to death, allow me to construct an analogy:

You have a bucket. The bucket has a vertical row of holes in the side. When water is put in the bucket, it leaks out of the holes.
The higher the level of water in the bucket, the faster water leaks out because it is leaking out through more holes.
This simulates exponential decay.

Now you are allowed to add one gallon of water to the bucket every minute. At the extremes, you can dump it all in at once, or you can pour it in steadily over the course of the minute.

If you pour it in steadily (one gallon per minute), the water will rise to a level where the number of leaking holes allows a flow rate equal to the rate at which you are pouring water in. (this would be analogous to a medication drip). There are no ups and downs at all in the water level of the bucket.

At the other extreme, you dump the gallon of water all in at once. The bucket will briefly be at it's highest level and leak at a decreasing rate until the minute is up, when you add another gallon. The swings in water level are greatest in this scenario.

Every other subdivision of adding water to the bucket has to fall between these two extremes. It isn't plausible that there is some magic "middle ground" strategy to adding water to the bucket that will result in a higher peak water level than dumping it all in at once.

That was a pretty damn good analogy, lol. Sticky material?
 
Thats actually what I was thinking, in theory of course. I still dont think my peak will increase but then again it could be an individual thing. I personally appear to metabolize the Test quickly (I have a fast metabolism in general) so I don't think that in my case the peak will increase.

Will know in a few weeks and Ill be sure to update the thread. It would be good to know for future reference to others.


Individual experience is the key words. can't wait to see your results. Good luck!
 
Today was my last Injection of 175mg before I start the E5D frequency. I was advised to do it this way. How long before I should get blood work and should it be on the peak or trough day????

Thanks
 
Today was my last Injection of 175mg before I start the E5D frequency. I was advised to do it this way. How long before I should get blood work and should it be on the peak or trough day????

Thanks

I'd give it at least 2 injections at the E5D protocol before getting bloodwork. Definitely on trough day.
 
I wouldn't check them for at least 4 weeks. Better to check in 6 weeks. Trough would be best. Peak would be nice to know, but not totally necessary.
 
Consider my real life example...

once a week injection of 160mg...peak of 1200.

switched to 80mg every 3.5 days...had blood draw 2 days after injection....1485.

You tell me. It looks like it is WAY over the peak of once a week, and it was not even the real peak.

You're drawing your conclusion based on ONE data point...
 
Back
Top