200mg test high estrogen and 50mg aromasin... What's going on?

[oliverduke]

So slightly over my TRT dose and estrogen is sky high even wth so much aromasin? 15% bodyfat

Going to switch to arimi 0.5mg a day

Can u not respond to aromasin?

 

[Megatron28]

Don't worry so much about estrogen. You need to check estradiol.

Let's see your lab work results. Tell us what you are running and what your protocol is. Etc.

 

[oliverduke]

Don't worry so much about estrogen. You need to check estradiol.

Let's see your lab work results. Tell us what you are running and what your protocol is. Etc.

Running 0.2mg test enth EOD (250mg/10days) with mast p 400/week (110 eod)

Aromasin 25-50mg (swapped to 1mg arimidex today)

2 weeks ago finished NPP 250mg a week for joints but didn't help a great deal.

My trt is 250mg/12days so I'm only 2 days over that.

From that test we can see my metabolism of estrogen is poor, suffering from overall body inflammation from a leaky gut due to binge eating with a celiac disease diagnosis (binging on gluten containing products) post show last year.

The binge eating has stopped, however as you can see its cascaded my cortisol, bowel inflammation markers and also messed with my E2, never usually that high.

can post the labs feedback from test if want or PM you it.

Regards


**addition**

Was running low dose NPP at the time of this test, could explain the false high test reading as NPP can cause that if not tested LS/MSMS but i don't think it does the same as TREN with false estrogen readings?

 

[Megatron28]

How much test are you running? .2mg EOD? That doesn't make sense? How many milligrams?

I am confused by the ranges listed with the results. It says your TT is 439ng/dl but the normal range peaks at 100? That doesn't make sense. It is important that I can trust the reference ranges listed as some results are in units I am not accustomed to. Can you please verify the ranges and units?

Aromasin of 25-50mg was taken how frequently? Please review your entire post to make sure you were specific on everything and provided couple Info.

Nandrolone causes false testosterone reading but not estradiol (as far as we know). Regardless, NPP has cleared after 2 weaks.

 

[halfape211]

How much test are you running? .2mg EOD? That doesn't make sense? How many milligrams?

I am confused by the ranges listed with the results. It says your TT is 439ng/dl but the normal range peaks at 100? That doesn't make sense. It is important that I can trust the reference ranges listed as some results are in units I am not accustomed to. Can you please verify the ranges and units?

Aromasin of 25-50mg was taken how frequently? Please review your entire post to make sure you were specific on everything and provided couple Info.

Nandrolone causes false testosterone reading but not estradiol (as far as we know). Regardless, NPP has cleared after 2 weaks.

Have a look at the page that gives ranges for age groups. A person over 60 has a range of 10-40!!

Oliverduke... What country are you in? OK..., I see you are in the UK

 

[halfape211]

How much test are you running? .2mg EOD? That doesn't make sense? How many milligrams?

I am confused by the ranges listed with the results. It says your TT is 439ng/dl but the normal range peaks at 100? That doesn't make sense. It is important that I can trust the reference ranges listed as some results are in units I am not accustomed to. Can you please verify the ranges and units?

Aromasin of 25-50mg was taken how frequently? Please review your entire post to make sure you were specific on everything and provided couple Info.

Nandrolone causes false testosterone reading but not estradiol (as far as we know). Regardless, NPP has cleared after 2 weaks.

Actually, the page provided uses ng/mg as a measurement of T. This is not used in Canada or USA. I'm fairly sure it is a typo and the units are actually ng/ml. It equates to 10% of the USA measurements, so a range of 300-1000ng/dl equates to the 25-100 used on the page provided. Up to here it makes sense.

BUT how can he be four (4) times the top of range??? Did he get a lab test from a place that scammed him?? Using the usa system of ng/dl Oliverduke would be 4370 ng/dl.
Could the stack he was on, put him at 4370 TT??

 

[Megatron28]

Actually, the page provided uses ng/mg as a measurement of T. This is not used in Canada or USA. If using the decimal system, it equates to 10% of the USA measurements, so it could make sense as USA range is 300-1000ng/dl. That equates to the 25-100 used on the page provided. BUT how can he be four (4) times the top of range??? Did he get a lab test from a place that scammed him?? Using the usa system of ng/dl Oliverduke would be 4370 ng/dl.

We need more info, Oliverduke!

Good observation. But that can't be while on a TRT dose of Test -- which is what I think he is trying to say he is running. Regardless -- something is messed up with the lab results.

 

[oliverduke]

How much test are you running? .2mg EOD? That doesn't make sense? How many milligrams?

I am confused by the ranges listed with the results. It says your TT is 439ng/dl but the normal range peaks at 100? That doesn't make sense. It is important that I can trust the reference ranges listed as some results are in units I am not accustomed to. Can you please verify the ranges and units?

Aromasin of 25-50mg was taken how frequently? Please review your entire post to make sure you were specific on everything and provided couple Info.

Nandrolone causes false testosterone reading but not estradiol (as far as we know). Regardless, NPP has cleared after 2 weaks.

-Sorry, so 1ml (250mg/ml) every 10 days split into eod (0.2ml) jabs with masteron to try and get more average test levels

- aromasin 25-50mg ed (no obvious estrogen sides bar water retention)

Have a look at the page that gives ranges for age groups. A person over 60 has a range of 10-40!!

Oliverduke... What country are you in? OK..., I see you are in the UK

I have never see these ranges or used this lab before as my ranges usually come the same as you guys!
This test was done by a private lab by a physician I'm seeing for my gut health issues so this was a 24 hour urine test to see cortisol and how I'm metabolising hormones.

Actually, the page provided uses ng/mg as a measurement of T. This is not used in Canada or USA. If using the decimal system, it equates to 10% of the USA measurements, so it could make sense as USA range is 300-1000ng/dl. That equates to the 25-100 used on the page provided. BUT how can he be four (4) times the top of range??? Did he get a lab test from a place that scammed him?? Using the usa system of ng/dl Oliverduke would be 4370 ng/dl.

We need more info, Oliverduke!

All I can imagine is the npp which I ran up to 2 days before this test gave false test reading?
Unless my pharma test is super strong and 200mg/week average is sending me sky high?

If you read above this Isn't my usual lab and was done for other reasons but the results on the hormone front shocked me...

 

[oliverduke]

Labs reply to physician about results (trt is due to head accident and pituitary liaison FYI) (and I'm not on 'so much stuff' lol)


He reports he is on testosterone, thyroid, roacutane, and exemenstane. His concerns are leg edema, insomnia that triggers binge eating, fatigue, estrogen and androgen symptoms and anxiety.

If you skip to page 3, his 3 progesterone dials are in range.

His DHEA is viewed as a combination of DHEAs plus etiocholanolone and androsterone.

His DHEAs is low for his age however inflammation lowers sulfation and I suspect he has a great deal of inflammation.

His androsterone is high which is the androgenic alpha side.

His testosterone is through the roof and you can see on page 2 his 5a DHT is high which is the most potent form of testosterone.

I’m not sure what’s going on with his health as he doesn’t say as to why he’s on so much stuff at a young age but you may want to work on some 5a reductase inhibitors with him at a very high dose to protect his prostate.

His testosterone then aromatizes into estrogen and his E1 and E3 are in range but his E2 is too high. This can cause fatigue, weight gain, breast development, mood swings, and erectile issues. The common reasons are inflammation, excess adipose tissue, and blood sugar issues. The medication is arimidex or naturally with topical chrysin or oral Damiana.

Estrogen then goes through phase 1 and phase 2 detox nd he prefers too much 4OH to me as the dial itself is red plus his methylation activity is low. Consider both DIM and phase 2 support like choline, methionine, TMG, P5P, and SAMe as it fits.

Moving on to page 5, his melatonin is a little high. This can be due to stress, supplementation, and high melatonin foods eating the day of testing.

His total DHEA is the same as on page 1 and 3.

His metabolized cortisol is low at 3442. This could be due to Accutane (if that’s what he meant – I’m not sure what Roacutane is) as it can suppress the HPA axis. It can also be due to low thyroid/sluggish thyroid. If you haven’t lately you may want to do a full thyroid panel with antibodies.

Under this is his 24h free cortisol that is high at 310.

This is graphed as the daily free pattern that shows his morning and afternoon are high – this can worsen anxiety. Consider calming support like l-theanine, magnolia, skullcap and zizyphus.

At the bottom he prefers ‘more cortisol metabolites’ THF which occurs with inflammation as cortisol can be anti-inflammatory to a point plus obesity and hypothyroid

 

[Megatron28]

-Sorry, so 1ml (250mg/ml) every 10 days split into eod (0.2ml) jabs with masteron to try and get more average test levels

- aromasin 25-50mg ed (no obvious estrogen sides bar water retention)



I have never see these ranges or used this lab before as my ranges usually come the same as you guys!
This test was done by a private lab by a physician I'm seeing for my gut health issues so this was a 24 hour urine test to see cortisol and how I'm metabolising hormones.



All I can imagine is the npp which I ran up to 2 days before this test gave false test reading?
Unless my pharma test is super strong and 200mg/week average is sending me sky high?

If you read above this Isn't my usual lab and was done for other reasons but the results on the hormone front shocked me...

Wait. In the first post you said you stopped NPP two weeks prior. Which is it. Two weeks or two days prior to blood work? Huge difference! If two days it is likely causing a false reading as TT in your lab results.

Keep in mind that Nandrolone aromatizes. So if you were running your normal TRT AI dose you likely were not running enough. How much Aromasin do you run for TRT?

 

[halfape211]

So, coming from someone that knows nothing about Mast, NPP, Etc. Could this stack have elevated his TT to 4370TT?

 

[oliverduke]

Sorry I stopped npp 2 weeks ago, Iv only just got the test results and they were done just under 2 weeks ago roughly 2 days after my last npp jab.
The npp was ran 2 months at 250-300mg a week to see if it help joint issues which it didn't.

For the first year I didn't need an AI but then it slowly started to creep up around the time the binge eating started a year ago post comp.

My test dose is 1ml (250mg) every 10 days for the past 6 months and prior to that it was every 12 days

 

[Megatron28]

What is your AI dose for TRT? Try to stay focused here Oliver. You can do it.

 

[Megatron28]

So, coming from someone that knows nothing about Mast, NPP, Etc. Could this stack have elevated his TT to 4370TT?

Nandrolone causes a false reading as TT.

http://www.accessdata.fda.gov/cdrh_docs/reviews/k093421.pdf

 

[halfape211]

What is your AI dose for TRT? Try to stay focused here Oliver. You can do it.

You've got a good sense of humour, for a guy with such a funny name! ;-0

 

[halfwit]

Yeesh, I didn't see you replied to the other thread. Luckily Tron saw the NPP timing in correlation with the test. I have a feeling that the test ranges are INACCURATE, and using urinalysis for detection of hormones is actually frowned upon by many endocrinology associations.

I advise caution with the docs recommendation with 5a inhibitors for prostate health. That's ABSOLUTELY barbaric and controlling ESTRADIOL is what's needed. Unfortunately, it's the false high result that triggered his reply, and I'd retest in like a month to show him that it was a false reading. I would just blame it on lab errors personally.

Besides, I'd ask for a blood test as that does a better job at showing what's going on NOW, not what is being excreted.

Note: I spent a little bit reading about urinalysis and thought maybe they were using specific gravity, but the ranges and units still don't match. Not a clue what metric they're using, but I do find it funny how they do almost line up with a tenth of ng/dl.

My .02c

 

[oliverduke]

How much test are you running? .2mg EOD? That doesn't make sense? How many milligrams?

I am confused by the ranges listed with the results. It says your TT is 439ng/dl but the normal range peaks at 100? That doesn't make sense. It is important that I can trust the reference ranges listed as some results are in units I am not accustomed to. Can you please verify the ranges and units?

Aromasin of 25-50mg was taken how frequently? Please review your entire post to make sure you were specific on everything and provided couple Info.

Nandrolone causes false testosterone reading but not estradiol (as far as we know). Regardless, NPP has cleared after 2 weaks.

Have a look at the page that gives ranges for age groups. A person over 60 has a range of 10-40!!

Oliverduke... What country are you in? OK..., I see you are in the UK

Actually, the page provided uses ng/mg as a measurement of T. This is not used in Canada or USA. I'm fairly sure it is a typo and the units are actually ng/ml. It equates to 10% of the USA measurements, so a range of 300-1000ng/dl equates to the 25-100 used on the page provided. Up to here it makes sense.

BUT how can he be four (4) times the top of range??? Did he get a lab test from a place that scammed him?? Using the usa system of ng/dl Oliverduke would be 4370 ng/dl.
Could the stack he was on, put him at 4370 TT??

What is your AI dose for TRT? Try to stay focused here Oliver. You can do it.

Well it's the uk so I'm not allowed an AI but I self medicated on my trt and use 25mg aromasin

 

[oliverduke]

Yeesh, I didn't see you replied to the other thread. Luckily Tron saw the NPP timing in correlation with the test. I have a feeling that the test ranges are INACCURATE, and using urinalysis for detection of hormones is actually frowned upon by many endocrinology associations.

I advise caution with the docs recommendation with 5a inhibitors for prostate health. That's ABSOLUTELY barbaric and controlling ESTRADIOL is what's needed. Unfortunately, it's the false high result that triggered his reply, and I'd retest in like a month to show him that it was a false reading. I would just blame it on lab errors personally.

Besides, I'd ask for a blood test as that does a better job at showing what's going on NOW, not what is being excreted.

Note: I spent a little bit reading about urinalysis and thought maybe they were using specific gravity, but the ranges and units still don't match. Not a clue what metric they're using, but I do find it funny how they do almost line up with a tenth of ng/dl.

My .02c

Yes I think possibly the npp caused the high T but I was only running 300mg would that be enough to cause that T reading? Strange one on the estrogen but assume it's not being metabolised with the high cortisol and inflamation?

One thing that did confuse me is the test shows low dhea a common problem with trt and no hcg but he didn't comment upon that.

Secondly Iv now switched to arimidex to see if that helps.

Ordered a medichecks blood estrogen and test check which I'll do in a week or so...

 

[Megatron28]

Well it's the uk so I'm not allowed an AI but I self medicated on my trt and use 25mg aromasin

Oliver: details are important. How often do you take the 25mg of Aromasin while on TRT? Daily? And where does that out your E2?

For your Blast, you say you were taking 25-50mg of Aromasin daily? Which was it? Or did you just wake up and take 40 some days, 50 other days and 25 yet others? And then specifically how much Aromasin were you taking the week leading up to your blood work?

 

[Megatron28]

Yes I think possibly the npp caused the high T but I was only running 300mg would that be enough to cause that T reading? Strange one on the estrogen but assume it's not being metabolised with the high cortisol and inflamation?

One thing that did confuse me is the test shows low dhea a common problem with trt and no hcg but he didn't comment upon that.

Secondly Iv now switched to arimidex to see if that helps.

Ordered a medichecks blood estrogen and test check which I'll do in a week or so...

The NPP definitely caused a false reading. Disregard the results because of this.

I am not aware of any mechanism where cortisol and inflammation would significantly change your bodies rate of aromatization. I don't think your theory is likely. May very well just be a bad lab test result like Halfwit indicated.

I think your best bet is not making any radical changes and getting new labs run. Better labs as Halfwit suggested.