23 y/o really bad hormone levels

[nga]

Hi everyone!

This is my first post, not sure if this is the place for it so mods, move it around if you need to.

Okay, so I've had problems with ED, low energy, brain fog, muscle and bodyfat for a while now. I've had a test done last year that was covered by socialised medicine, they only checked:

FSH: 2.45 IU/L (1.5-12.4)
LH: 3.26 IU/L (1.7-8.6)
T: 23.41 nmol/L (9.9-27.8)

Which isn't abnormal, so it was dismissed as the cause of my symptoms.
As things got worse I've decided this week to have more comprehensive bloodwork done, and my suspicions were confirmed:

FSH 3.8 IU/L (1.4 - 18.1)
LH 2.1 IU/L (1.5 - 9.3)
Progest. 5.38 nmol/l (0.89 - 3.88) +
Oestrad. 144.1 pmol/l (0.0 - 146.1)
Test. 16.490 nmol/l (8.4 - 28.7)
Albumin 48.0 g/L (35.0 - 52.0)
SHBG 51.1 nmol/L (17.3 - 65.8)

As you can see, testosterone is "within normal", but I'd say low for a 23 year old, Estrogens are very, very high. Free and bioavailable testosterone is very low (albumin and SHBG are high end of reference range). I am of course not a doctor just an educated sufferer of these symptoms but it looks to me like strong aromatisation is the main issue here? Am I wrong? Am I a candidate for therapy?

I'm of course going to see a doctor about this, I absolutely cannot go on living this way (my sex life among other things has been almost completely destroyed). But there are a few things that come to mind:

1) I don't know if the doc will want to help me as "things are more or less withing range", an excuse I've heard too many times.
2) Maybe the doc is uneducated about the subject. How can I persuade him to start aromatase inhibitor therapy or something like that?
3) Say I get denied absolutely and I have to take matters into my own hands. What are some steroids/aromatase inhibitors that could help? Will this option be very expensive?
4) I would be very much content with a normal life, but IF I'm getting some sort of hormone therapy anyway, is it possible to set my levels to be higher than avarage? Absolute high end of T for example? Just out of curiosity.

Thanks for the help guys.


EDIT: I've also had minor gyno for a few years now.

 

[cbburrr]

You look pretty normal to me. I think something else is causing your ED, brain fog, etc.

I'd look for problems other than hormones. Maybe auto immune, or digestive issue. You take any antidepressants?

 

[nga]

You look pretty normal to me. I think something else is causing your ED, brain fog, etc.

I'd look for problems other than hormones. Maybe auto immune, or digestive issue. You take any antidepressants?

Also, I forgot to mention, I've had minor gyno for years!!!

No, I don't take any medication. Thyroid test came back stellar a few months ago. What sort of digestive issue do you mean?

 

[Milton]

Welcome to the forums, hope we can help out. Are you taking any other meds that could be the root of your sides? Diet can have alot to do if your chugging down McD's burgers and living out of 7-11s day and night and chugging it all down with artificial drinks etc. you'll end up with the same sides you have described. Up you water intake dramatically, say 3 liters of water right out of bed each morning and cut all proceeded foods/drinks/snacks out of your diet if you really want to overcome this. Please keep up posted and good luck!

 

[nga]

Welcome to the forums, hope we can help out. Are you taking any other meds that could be the root of your sides? Diet can have alot to do if your chugging down McD's burgers and living out of 7-11s day and night and chugging it all down with artificial drinks etc. you'll end up with the same sides you have described. Up you water intake dramatically, say 3 liters of water right out of bed each morning and cut all proceeded foods/drinks/snacks out of your diet if you really want to overcome this. Please keep up posted and good luck!

No meds. I eat only a whole food plant based diet (avoiding soy). Plenty of water. Other ideas?

 

[Milton]

No meds. I eat only a whole food plant based diet (avoiding soy). Plenty of water. Other ideas?

wheres the beef? wheres your protein coming from?

 

[nga]

wheres the beef? wheres your protein coming from?

I usually have around 120g of protein a day (I'm 70 kg) in the form of beans, lentils, etc. and protein powder. I also lift 5 times a week.

 

[Graeme]

Running nga's numbers through the free testosterone calculator at:

https://nebido.com/tools/index.php/en/default/index/free-calculator

Gives:

T: 16.49 nmol/L / 476 ng/dL
Free T: 247 pmol/L / 7.1 ng/dL

I've read that some endocrinologists will initiate TRT for patients with a calculated free testosterone below 8 ng/dL (270 pmol/L), whilst others use below 6 ng/dL (210 pmol/L).

High SHBG can cause gyno as it disrupts the E2 / testosterone balance.

I can't advise on treatment. Some of my bloodwork is similar to yours, and I suspect that might be the cause of my gyno. My doctor's still trying to figure it out. I'm not on TRT, and probably won't be going on it either. Go and have a chat to your GP and see what he or she says.

The other thing to bear in mind is that your mental symptoms could be due to depression, which is far more common than hypogonadism.

 

[nga]

Running nga's numbers through the free testosterone calculator at:

https://nebido.com/tools/index.php/en/default/index/free-calculator

Gives:

T: 16.49 nmol/L / 476 ng/dL
Free T: 247 pmol/L / 7.1 ng/dL

I've read that some endocrinologists will initiate TRT for patients with a calculated free testosterone below 8 ng/dL (270 pmol/L), whilst others use below 6 ng/dL (210 pmol/L).

High SHBG can cause gyno as it disrupts the E2 / testosterone balance.

I can't advise on treatment. Some of my bloodwork is similar to yours, and I suspect that might be the cause of my gyno. My doctor's still trying to figure it out. I'm not on TRT, and probably won't be going on it either. Go and have a chat to your GP and see what he or she says.

The other thing to bear in mind is that your mental symptoms could be due to depression, which is far more common than hypogonadism.

Thank you. I did the same calculation and I'm saddened by the result. I just hope doctors take things seriously this time. Either way, I will fix this. I'm going to an andrologist on Tuesday and I'm still trying to get an appointment at a good endo. Wish me luck!

 

[cbburrr]

Would you consider adding a meat protein and /or fat to your diet?

Test is made from cholesterol, a few eggs or some fish could be just what you need.

 

[Graeme]

I don't think that nga's problems are down to having too little testosterone, but rather that the free (i.e. usable) fraction is too low. And that's due to high levels of SHBG.

For example, a hypothetical TRT candidate might have the following (made-up) numbers:

Total testosterone: 300 ng/dL (10.4 nmol/L)
SHBG: 20 nmol/L
Free testosterone: 7.66 ng/dL (266 pmol/L)

And this is me from August.

Total testosterone: 534 ng/dL (18.5 nmol/L)
SHBG: 67 nmol/L
Free testosterone: 6.66 ng/dL (231 pmol/L)

Both nga and I (back in August) have total T in the normal range, but free T could be lower than someone who is hypogonadal. If we posted our numbers on the TRT forum then it's likely we'd be told to stop being hypochondriacs.

Should nga be looking at going onto TRT? That's probably a discussion to have with his andrologist, but I'd be inclined to find what's causing the high SHBG first. It's also possible it might be a one-off reading.

I'd suggest getting checked for depression, as that's got similar symptoms to low T.

In my case, I've not been to see an endocrinologist or andrologist. (My doctor probably thinks that I'm a hypochondriac.) My sky high SHBG was down when I had levels checked in December, but so was total testosterone, proving you can't win. I'm not on TRT, nor do I really expect to be in the near future.

I do suffer from depression, and I have been on SSRIs in the past. Those are renowned for killing libido, which could lead to a misdiagnosis of low T.

 

[nga]

Would you consider adding a meat protein and /or fat to your diet?

Test is made from cholesterol, a few eggs or some fish could be just what you need.

Isn't estradiol and progesterone also made from cholesterol? That sounds like one step forward two steps back. And I would like to avoid animal products on an ethical basis. Good suggestion though.

 

[nga]

Okay so brief update, if anyone is interested. Doctors didn't want to help me so a friend hooked me up with some Proviron, started taking it a few days ago 75mg everyday. Wow.. I don't want to sell the skin before I've caught the bear but it looks like all my symptoms are going away! This stuff is legit, it's cheap, and there's virtually no harmful side effects.

Training is great, sex is great, I get things done at work, my mood is immeasurably better, I even started to learn a new programming language as I seem to be rested with less sleep (I used to be groggy at 9+ hours of sleep!!). Plus I hope it's going to help fill out my beard better... Baldness, I give zero sh!ts about

Graeme, if you're still having issues maybe you could look into this, just ask around in your gym, it's pretty easy to get and it's not being faked as far as I know.

 

[plokijuh]

Okay so brief update, if anyone is interested. Doctors didn't want to help me so a friend hooked me up with some Proviron, started taking it a few days ago 75mg everyday. Wow.. I don't want to sell the skin before I've caught the bear but it looks like all my symptoms are going away! This stuff is legit, it's cheap, and there's virtually no harmful side effects.

Training is great, sex is great, I get things done at work, my mood is immeasurably better, I even started to learn a new programming language as I seem to be rested with less sleep (I used to be groggy at 9+ hours of sleep!!). Plus I hope it's going to help fill out my beard better... Baldness, I give zero sh!ts about

Graeme, if you're still having issues maybe you could look into this, just ask around in your gym, it's pretty easy to get and it's not being faked as far as I know.

i think i'm having same problems as you did, i'd really appreciate if you would help!

i've had low libido problem for almost a year now.. below my latest blood results:

LH 4.36 IU/L (0.8-7.6)
FSH 2.55 IU/L (0.7-11.1)
Testosterone 17.42 nmol/L (9.4-60.1)
Free Testosterone 7.0 pg/ml (5.5-40)
Estradiol (E2) 4.04 miU/mL (1.7-8.6)
SHBG 64.99 nmol/L (14.5-48.4) H

i think high SHBG is casuing this issue, i was thinking of taking proviron and andriol cuz i read it could fix this issue..

did proviron help you on this? how long have you run it for?

would really appreicate your help!

 

[halfwit]

Okay so brief update, if anyone is interested. Doctors didn't want to help me so a friend hooked me up with some Proviron, started taking it a few days ago 75mg everyday. Wow.. I don't want to sell the skin before I've caught the bear but it looks like all my symptoms are going away! This stuff is legit, it's cheap, and there's virtually no harmful side effects.

Training is great, sex is great, I get things done at work, my mood is immeasurably better, I even started to learn a new programming language as I seem to be rested with less sleep (I used to be groggy at 9+ hours of sleep!!). Plus I hope it's going to help fill out my beard better... Baldness, I give zero sh!ts about

Graeme, if you're still having issues maybe you could look into this, just ask around in your gym, it's pretty easy to get and it's not being faked as far as I know.

And....

You just made a mistake.


Of course you feel amazing right now, you've taken an oral steroid that reduces SHBG and is quite androgenic. Except one little problem; it shuts down your natural production of testosterone.

You've made a bad problem worse.

You've now complicated matters and have made it so getting true results on a blood test are impossible at this point. I do think you have an issue, being a vegan is one. Now you have another. D'oh!

 

[nga]

i think i'm having same problems as you did, i'd really appreciate if you would help!

i've had low libido problem for almost a year now.. below my latest blood results:

LH 4.36 IU/L (0.8-7.6)
FSH 2.55 IU/L (0.7-11.1)
Testosterone 17.42 nmol/L (9.4-60.1)
Free Testosterone 7.0 pg/ml (5.5-40)
Estradiol (E2) 4.04 miU/mL (1.7-8.6)
SHBG 64.99 nmol/L (14.5-48.4) H

i think high SHBG is casuing this issue, i was thinking of taking proviron and andriol cuz i read it could fix this issue..

did proviron help you on this? how long have you run it for?

would really appreicate your help!

Hi plokijuh!

I think andriol is a bit aggressive and it is disruptive of the HPG axis and so I would very much advise against it especially if libido and happiness are the only thing you're after.

Proviron however does not cause shutdown, now that I'm off it things seem to be back to normal (as in, healthy libido and mental acuity). I ran it for about a month and a half and I'm now off since with no ill effects. My libido isn't as hyper as when I was on it but it's back to normal and I'm very happy with that.

Get 100-200 caps and try it out if you think nothing else works. I'm stressing this, it was a last resort for me and it should be for you as well. Hope you get well!

PS: really don't fuck around with testosterone, it gets pretty complicated plus getting pharma grade is very hard. Legit proviron is easy to get and running a short cycle like I did won't get you into trouble (like I said, I feel like it must have stabilised my hormone levels since I feel normal again). BUT do try to get your diet and physical activity in check first as well as stress, sleep, etc.

 

[nga]

And....

You just made a mistake.


Of course you feel amazing right now, you've taken an oral steroid that reduces SHBG and is quite androgenic. Except one little problem; it shuts down your natural production of testosterone.

You've made a bad problem worse.

You've now complicated matters and have made it so getting true results on a blood test are impossible at this point. I do think you have an issue, being a vegan is one. Now you have another. D'oh!

Except it doesn't cause shutdown (if you look at multiple studies, mesterolone at worst is mildly surpressive of the HPG axis, more likely not at all in case of shorter cycles), plus I've been off for a month and a half and all my previous symptoms went away with no ill effects. Everything's pretty much back to normal.

So no, I haven't made a bad problem worse.

 

[halfwit]

Except it doesn't cause shutdown (if you look at multiple studies, mesterolone at worst is mildly surpressive of the HPG axis, more likely not at all in case of shorter cycles), plus I've been off for a month and a half and all my previous symptoms went away with no ill effects. Everything's pretty much back to normal.

So no, I haven't made a bad problem worse.

I absolutely assure you that proviron DOES cause suppression. But hey, some of us have to learn the hard way.

Edit: Even worse, you're advising others. Let's see your blood work showing that your serum LH and FSH were not impacted. Please.

Hell, I'm curious to see your numbers period.

 

[plokijuh]

Hi plokijuh!

I think andriol is a bit aggressive and it is disruptive of the HPG axis and so I would very much advise against it especially if libido and happiness are the only thing you're after.

Proviron however does not cause shutdown, now that I'm off it things seem to be back to normal (as in, healthy libido and mental acuity). I ran it for about a month and a half and I'm now off since with no ill effects. My libido isn't as hyper as when I was on it but it's back to normal and I'm very happy with that.

Get 100-200 caps and try it out if you think nothing else works. I'm stressing this, it was a last resort for me and it should be for you as well. Hope you get well!

PS: really don't fuck around with testosterone, it gets pretty complicated plus getting pharma grade is very hard. Legit proviron is easy to get and running a short cycle like I did won't get you into trouble (like I said, I feel like it must have stabilised my hormone levels since I feel normal again). BUT do try to get your diet and physical activity in check first as well as stress, sleep, etc.

thanks!
may i know how long have you been off of it for now? and have you done any blood work? did you SHBG go down?
should i be taking 75mg a day for a month? what would you advise.

thanks for the help!

 

[jermkeith]

would really be interested in bloods after running proviron also.. its suppressive no matter what.. but hopefully you got lucky....but just doubtful