3rd cycle - Test c & EQ

[THE-DET-OAK]

One more thing. Lets walk through whats happening in most PCTs, the ones that start SERM 14 days after last injection.

The T levels are still at suppressive levels for at least 10 days of the SERM treatment. So the the first 30% of the SERM treatment is doing absolutely nothing. So what did we do? We only ran our SERM for 20 days. Even the we ran it the first 10 days it was not doing anything at all.

Now just imagine throwing a curve ball into the mix. lets say deca was used in the cycle. Deca is more suppressive than T. Not to mention the fact that it is a long nasty drug that can linger and linger.

So said person runs their T a week past the deca and starts SERM 14 days after last T injection, or 21 days after last deca shot. Using 3x half-life this means SERM treatment should have commenced 36 days after last deca shot. Now we have ran our SERM for 15 days where it was doing absolutely nothing. (keep in mind deca can linger alot longer too) This leaves us with only 15 days of SERM to where it actually does something. Not nearly long enough IMO.

If I look back at my first cycle of test e only @ 750 week. I started my clomid 2 weeks after last pin. I recovered fine but I wonder if i could have done much better. I did not lose my libido until 2 weeks into PCT.

 

[markballasiuc]

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[ezred]

this is actually a pretty interesting thread. and i like your explanations in there det. although i don't agree with you saying that test levels would have been double the 2800 the day after the last pin.

we can sit down and figure out the math accounting for ester weight and assuming a common half life of 7 days.... but i don't believe the levels would be anywhere near double 7 days earlier.

the farther along the half-life goes, the less and less is actually getting released into the system at any time. hence only your last pin maybe 2 would have a significant difference in the amount of uncleaved vs cleaved test after a 1 week period of not pinning.

if you pin 4 days apart.... pinning 250mg each time.... let's assume that's 250mg of ACTUAL test not including ester weight.... so for test-e you're actually pinning like 320mg 2x per week.

anyway. when you pin the second time.... your body has cleaved through about 65mg of test.

at the end of the week, 125mg of test from that first shot, plus about 60-70mg of test from the second shot. so your first week you only got 200mg out of 500mg shot. the rest compounds starting about the 3rd week and takes you actually over 500mg per week of ester being cleaved from the body. 1 week after your last shot you should have only about 200mg LESS of testosterone released into your system than the day after your last shot. but you've got OVER 500mg in your system on that day.... probably up over 600mg.... so half is a pretty big jump.

does that make sense?

any thoughts on that? that's how i understand the math. but then again, because we're talking about esters which just effect the water solubility of the hormone itself, the half life might not actually be reached in the same way. it might be more uniform.

i need to study more about how our body cleaves the ester. here's why.... if it takes 1 week to cleave 125mg of test off the ester, why would it take longer than 1 week to cleave the remaining 125mg? we're talking about water solubility, not active ingredient half life here... so they would probably act differently, no? FUCK i'm confusing myself lol.

thought i kinda had my head wrapped about the ester concept but now i'm questioning the nature of ester cleavage as i know it!

can someone ring on this that knows the answer?

i'm starting to think the latter idea makes more sense for the esters. the actual half life of the test itself would function like a typical half-life i'd assume, where the first half life you release half the drug, the 2nd half life you release half of the remaining half.... but the esters, what would make your body cleave them slower? we're talking about water solubility here that shouldn't change just because you've had less or more of it in your system for a shorter or longer period of time.... should it?

 

[UserAt204]

You guys are hurting my super big intelligent brain. Lots of good points and we are probably wasting some days while in pct

 

[UserAt204]

DET OAK is the man. You made this very easy to understand the best option for post cycle therapy (pct) start times. I myself have used a standard two week time mostly because I don't want to wait longer but using a short ester on the end solves part of thecproblem and makes for a smooth transition. Good job.

Thats why his post cycle therapy (pct) protocol is a sticky.