4 Weeks into First Test-E Cycle

[psionicsin]

Ok. Decided to start a new thread after my first one ended up a disaster.

GENERAL INFO:
I'm 30, and currently 4 weeks into my first cycle of Test E 250mg (switched from a Test Prop comp after advice from Megatron) while also being on a careful Ketogenic Diet. FYI...I'm Cutting Weight. I'm Cutting Weight.

TEST INFO:
I'm pinning twice a week, Mondays and Thursdays, 1cc of Test E 250mg. hCG is 1 week on, 2-3 weeks off per docs orders.

DIET INFO:
Although my body is going through a carb deficit, I actually seem to be gaining a nice amount of muscle while dropping fat at a decent rate. I can only eat 4 times a day. Anything more than that and I feel like I have to puke. So 5-6 meals per day isn't for me. I'm keeping within 8-16g of my target daily calculated macros which are:

• 252g Protein
• 99g Fat
• 37g Carbs
• 2047 kCal

Here's a SAMPLE of a days meals...

Breakfast (~36g protein)

• 4 large eggs
• 4 slices of swiss cheese
• Hot peppers
• 2cups fresh spinach

Shake #1

• 80g Protein Shake w/ 8g Protein Natural Peanut Butter

Pre-Workout

• 1 scoop No-Explode

Post-Workout

• BCAA's & Amino Complex
• Metamucil

Dinner (~58g protein)

• Lean Ground Beef/Chicken Breast/Turkey Burger Pattie
• 4 slices of swiss cheese
• Hot peppers
• 2cups fresh spinach

Shake #2

• 80g Protein Shake w/ 8g Protein Natural Peanut Butter

WORKOUT PLAN INFO:

For the past 4 weeks my workout plan has consisted of Compound Lift SuperSets with followup isolated exhaustion movements 4 times a week on staggered days. Everyday involves an hour of high incline LISS, or power walking the 2.5miles around my complex. I'll be keeping the same plan, but moving the lifting to 4 days on 3 days off coming up here.

SUPPLEMENT INFO:

Daily, I'm taking a good multi-vitamin (x2), fish oil (3600mg), milk thistle (350mg), glucosamine (1000mg), Damiana (1800mg), and L-Arginine (2000mg).

PCT INFO:

Although I'm nowhere near that portion yet, I have Clomid and Nolva waiting for me. Will start 2 weeks after last pin, and it'll be Clomid @ 75/50/50/50 & Nolvadex @ 30/30/30/30.

STATS:

Stats before December, 2015:

• 6' 2"
• 230lbs
• 35-1/2" waist
• BF% Unknown
• Test Unknown ng/dl

Stats December, 2015 (Pre-Cycle):

• 6' 2"
• 205lbs
• 33-1/2" waist
• BF% Unknown
• Test 618ng/dl

Stats February, 2016 (4 weeks into Test E Cycle):

• 6' 2"
• 210lbs
• 32" waist
• BF% 19
• Test >1,500ng/dl

THE PROS:

Oddly enough I seem to be gaining muscle even though I'm cutting fat. My arms, chest, legs and glutes are noticeably larger. And my waist size has gone down dramatically in a short period of time.

I seem to be having no side effects which is also great. The only thing that I would say is a "side effect" is that my post workout stink is MANLY, where as I used to never smell even after a brutal workout.

THE CONS:

My doctor is very concerned about my new Test levels being FAR above 1,500. I practically blew the scale as they couldn't measure it it was so high. He says that guys with Test levels that high are at risk of a stroke. What he says does concern me greatly, however I've had no ill feelings or adverse effects from the pinning that I can feel. And heart rate seems normal based on Apple Watch readings, and blood pressure seems normal based on docs tests. However I'm wondering if I should take the middle ground and 1/2 or 1/4 my injections until things calm down number wise.

I don't want to just stop because I do like the results that I'm seeing. However I don't want to end up dead either. What's you guys take on this situation?

 

[Massacre 2.0]

Dude, you need to eat more. Something else that I would critique is that 80g of protein is almost a waste IMO. Someone correct me if I'm wrong but if I'm not mistaken anything over 60g at a time your body will just trash it somehow. If I were you I'd get more meals in with a good amount of protein every few hours rather than just relying on 160g from your protein shakes. I'm sure someone else will chime in and give you similar advice.

 

[psionicsin]

Dude, you need to eat more. Something else that I would critique is that 80g of protein is almost a waste IMO. Someone correct me if I'm wrong but if I'm not mistaken anything over 60g at a time your body will just trash it somehow. If I were you I'd get more meals in with a good amount of protein every few hours rather than just relying on 160g from your protein shakes. I'm sure someone else will chime in and give you similar advice.

I'm trying to cut massively, not bulk. I've talked it over at length with Megatron. He suggested a Ketogenic Diet (look it up) which I'm currently on and following. I'm failing to see how eating more would help with my goals as I'm already seeing the progress I was wanting/expecting to see.

Now, as far as the above 60g protein thing, I wasn't aware of nor was I told this at any time. If that's the case, then I'll adjust no problem.

 

[Massacre 2.0]

I'm not familiar with that diet. I must've missed that part. If you're getting gains that's great but eating more meals which are rich in protein and low on cals would only increase muscle size regardless whether you're cutting or bulking. I am also cutting and eat carbs only before and after the gym only to give me the energy I need prior to training and to fuel the gas tank after I'm done to recover while still eating 6 meals a day every 2-3 hours.

All in all, if you've got a plan then stick to the plan. My only concern is that you mentioned your first run was a disaster and I'm just trying to help you not regret the 2nd one. Good luck!

 

[oldmusclemike]

Quote: Ok. Decided to start a new thread after my first one ended up a disaster. End Quote

You're good man, but a lot better with your info and all the stats. !!

 

[oldmusclemike]

I'm glad to see you switched to just TEST E, I was going to suggest that e earlier.
You say you are loosening fat while you are building mass I've done that when I did giant sets and it stimulates a bit of an aerobic effect and burns fat while building. Your walking is also burning fat. Also.Good Job

your smell, well your pussy as most women will smell after your workout. Ha, LOL just kidding. But of course it's manly. Also all your aerobic type exercises will / can cause this with your diet ??

You watch your labs and keep the E2 in check and low side not much side effects you won't die. Unless you have heart problems and your BP goes up and stays you should be fine. ( disclaimer : me no doctor ! )

Good Luck my man

 

[psionicsin]

Went to sports Med doc. She says I'm totally fine. As long as I'm not running this dose of Test constantly everyday for years I'm good to go. Everything checked out normal and ok.

 

[psionicsin]

All in all, if you've got a plan then stick to the plan. My only concern is that you mentioned your first run was a disaster and I'm just trying to help you not regret the 2nd one. Good luck!

Hey man. I didn't mean my first cycle was a disaster, I meant my first thread.

 

[Massacre 2.0]

Looking forward to hearing about your results. Keep us posted.

 

[tbonexl]

So are you on trt or are you having a doctor monitor your steroid use?

 

[halfwit]

Went to sports Med doc. She says I'm totally fine. As long as I'm not running this dose of Test constantly everyday for years I'm good to go. Everything checked out normal and ok.

Why are you discussing the illegal use of controlled substances with doctors? They put that in their physician's notes, which (especially if insurance is footing the bill for the visits) are visible by others.

It's spilt milk at this point, but private blood testing avoids this unnecessary risk.

Are you sure you're in ketosis? Pick up some Ketone strips at you grocery store/pharmacy to verify. As you're actively training, you likely won't hit dark purple, but they're very helpful in determining whether or not you're getting in "hidden" carbs on accident.

I also don't see any mention of an AI. This is paramount to success, and as you haven't posted estradiol numbers, we're at a guessing game whether or not you're okay. My belief is that you're going to find that you needed to be on one.

Lastly, your doctor telling you to cycle HCG is uninformed. HCG mimics the natural release of LH that is being suppressed right now. This means you're going on a roller-coaster ride in that aspect, and it pretty much defeats the protective benefits of using HCG.

Sorry man, but there's a lot still missing here that you really should have been aware of BEFORE you started.

My .02c

 

[psionicsin]

Why are you discussing the illegal use of controlled substances with doctors? They put that in their physician's notes, which (especially if insurance is footing the bill for the visits) are visible by others.

I have a specific medical condition. So I shared with my doctor from day 1. I just don't think that he knowledgable about everything that would happen. It's not 100% his area of expertise. I HAVE to get my blood drawn by him as he's my primary. He was going to find out which is why I let him know from day 1. Any lapse of anything will result in me not being covered by him. As far as the insurance stuff, that's all good as well. I made sure to ask.

Are you sure you're in ketosis? Pick up some Ketone strips at you grocery store/pharmacy to verify. As you're actively training, you likely won't hit dark purple, but they're very helpful in determining whether or not you're getting in "hidden" carbs on accident.

Based on the drastic results I'm getting, I'll say yes. I'm not competing or having to weigh in for a specific thing, so I'm not picking up ketone strips. I'm carefully tracking my macros to the T. Even going so far as to leave 5-10g of carbs so those hidden carbs shouldn't effect me too much if at all. So I'm great with that as my results visually speak for themselves.

I also don't see any mention of an AI. This is paramount to success, and as you haven't posted estradiol numbers, we're at a guessing game whether or not you're okay. My belief is that you're going to find that you needed to be on one.

Yes I did forget to mention that in my description. Arimidex as suggested by Megatron. Started a week late, but I'm just fine.

Lastly, your doctor telling you to cycle HCG is uninformed. HCG mimics the natural release of LH that is being suppressed right now. This means you're going on a roller-coaster ride in that aspect, and it pretty much defeats the protective benefits of using HCG.

I'm 4 weeks in. If that's the case I'll switch to 4-day spreads.

Sorry man, but there's a lot still missing here that you really should have been aware of BEFORE you started.

What exactly is the "Lot" that's missing? There are threads with 1/16th of the info I provided here that people seem A-Ok with? There is 1 thing I forgot to mention, and 1 thing I'll adjust. Other than that...what's the "...lot missing..."?

 

[psionicsin]

So are you on trt or are you having a doctor monitor your steroid use?

Monitor. Medical condition here and wanted to make sure I'm 100% ok, but that's not required obviously for normal people.

 

[halfwit]

I have a specific medical condition. So I shared with my doctor from day 1. I just don't think that he knowledgable about everything that would happen. It's not 100% his area of expertise. I HAVE to get my blood drawn by him as he's my primary. He was going to find out which is why I let him know from day 1. Any lapse of anything will result in me not being covered by him. As far as the insurance stuff, that's all good as well. I made sure to ask.

Can you go into some details about your medical condition? If you're just on TRT, you're still exposing yourself unnecessarily to potential penalties due to the fact that cycling equates to drug abuse in our society.

If this is something like cardiovascular disease, I can't say that AAS use was the wisest decision.

Based on the drastic results I'm getting, I'll say yes. I'm not competing or having to weigh in for a specific thing, so I'm not picking up ketone strips. I'm carefully tracking my macros to the T. Even going so far as to leave 5-10g of carbs so those hidden carbs shouldn't effect me too much if at all. So I'm great with that as my results visually speak for themselves.

A caloric deficit with exercise will provide results in themselves. If you're not in ketosis however, you are potentially short changing yourself as ketones replace glucose completely, which assists with glycogen depletion. I've spent YEARS living a ketogenic lifestyle, and if I didn't have my gallbladder taken out, I likely still would be.

They're like 5 bucks (the strips), why not be POSITIVE that you're doing it right? I can tell the carb count on most foods by looking at them, yet there are still some that (usually processed foods) sneak by unless I inquire or read the nutrition facts. It's not that I'm saying you lack the intelligence to participate in due diligence, but that it is an extra measure to ensure success.

Yes I did forget to mention that in my description. Arimidex as suggested by Megatron. Started a week late, but I'm just fine.

Then what is your dose, and where is your estradiol currently at? You can't feel elevated estradiol, even though it can most certainly be setting you up for some serious issues. Blood work is the ONLY way to know for sure.

I'm 4 weeks in. If that's the case I'll switch to 4-day spreads.

I was referring to the taking time off aspect. There is no need to "cycle" HCG unless you're taking thousands of units per week. Leydig cell desensitization doesn't occur at typical doses under 1000iu per week, although E3.5D is often a solid approach.

What exactly is the "Lot" that's missing? There are threads with 1/16th of the info I provided here that people seem A-Ok with? There is 1 thing I forgot to mention, and 1 thing I'll adjust. Other than that...what's the "...lot missing..."?

Your initial question about reducing levels due to potential consequences could have been answered (stroke is either from inadequate estradiol control, or hematocrit management), consulting a physician regarding illegal drug use, I don't see any mention of training experience - which puts you at risk for connective tissue damage, the timing of a first cycle to cut (not TERRIBLE, just not optimal due to building an experience base to draw from in the future), and doing all this at once - keto/new exercise program/AAS - just brings in so many variables - that it makes it difficult to pinpoint what is the actual culprit if (heaven forbid) something goes wrong.

I'm not picking on you; I actually like how you presented your information, are handling constructive criticism well, and admire your decision to improve yourself. I just get the feeling that this was a bit rushed, that's all.

If you truly want to see big changes in your physique, you're going to find that it takes a great deal of time and commitment. I do sincerely hope you succeed, which is why I chose to comment, but I feel it's necessary to play devil's advocate a little bit and help you understand that this is going to need to become a lifestyle choice, not something that is cut and dry.

I hope that makes sense.

Please feel free to keep asking questions; the better informed you are, the better your experience will be.

 

[Massacre 2.0]

Hey bro. How are the gains? I'm curious to see if that diet is better than the stuff I'm doing.

 

[psionicsin]

Please feel free to keep asking questions; the better informed you are, the better your experience will be.

I'm not going to be in ketosis for life. I'm doing this to further boost my fat loss while on this cycle. It's not that I'm not committed, because as I said my shopping bill and results definitely speak for themselves. It's that i'm DEFINITELY seeing the results Ive been wanting and then some. I don't have a question about the diet or the results I'm getting from it, so why test is my question? I can understand if the opposite was happening, then yes it'll be good to see if I've even reached that state. And while I understand the "being sure", aren't the awesome results enough? I'm fairly used to the diet now and don't mind it. However I can't see me doing this until the day I die.

And I also understand this stuff isn't a miracle substance, which is why I have been working my ass off like crazy to make sure I was getting results. This whole decision and process definitely was not rushed. You can't present the information I've presented and that be rushed. I've been considering this for years (I'm 30 soon to be 31), and finally decided to bite the bullet. I didn't feel it necessary to do the whole song and dance on this forum of all places, as I had my information properly lined out.

I'm also not new to training, which is another thing I didn't feel necessary to do the whole song and dance with. I was a college level athlete and professional dancer. If I had questions on training and issues with my cycle, I can understand that type of response. But I literally listed my training out as far as what I'm doing and had no question about it. So it doesn't come off as Devil's Advocate, but more along the lines of nitpicking areas that didn't need to be nitpicked.

No, I'm not going into detail about my condition which is why I said "my condition" lol. The test does not affect it in any way. I asked 3 professionals before I even started. I'm good to go, but still very smart with my body which is why I've opted to tell them. Was it the "best" decision? Probably not. But was it the best decision for me? Totally. And, like I said, I'm monitored every one or two months by my GP. He always performs a full CBC, CMP, E2 and ********* panel, and I can not NOT go to him. Just trust me on this. And I'm GUESSING you're talking about the E2, which was 26.2 pg/ml. And the dosage for Arimidex is taken directly off of the "My First Cycle" thread in Megatron's signature. Check it out, very insightful stuff.

And this was a HUGE derailment from my post and the only actual question I had (that no one informed me on which was...

"Am I ACTUALLY going to have a stroke and should alter my dosage, or is my doctor just doom and gloom?"

 

[psionicsin]

Hey bro. How are the gains? I'm curious to see if that diet is better than the stuff I'm doing.

Hey!

So yeah the results are just getting better and better. I've slowed down on working out upper body and have been concentrating on lower body. The upper is developing very fast, and the lower (while developing nicely) wasn't going as fast. Don't want to be one of THOSE guys, so switched the training intensity for a week or two.

As far as the fat loss, that's unreal. I had to buy new pants because a belt just wasn't cutting it anymore. All slim fit 32's, and now those are starting to have a tiny bit slack. I'm hoping I don't dip under a 32 because that's just insane for my body type.

The tremendous amount of protein I'm eating does seem to be contributing to my actually gaining size while losing the fat (something many people told me was impossible). Is it Arnold gains, not at all...and also not something I'm going for. But do I look like I'm been chucking bales of hay on a farm all my life? Yes I do lol.

In a couple of weeks I'll be posting before and after pics. That'll be a hoot.

 

[Megatron28]

I am glad to see that the Diet I recommended is working out for you. Sounds like you are making positive strides!

I would like to remind you again that you are anonymous on this forum. The more information you can share, without risking your anonymity, only can be beneficial. It will 1) help guys here give better advice and 2) allow other guys to learn from your experience.

I would really encourage you to think about #2. These forums are meant to be a two-way street. You learn from us and we learn from you. Please try to make it about more than just yourself.

I would also encourage you to share your experiences and give advice to new guys that come to 'Ology when you feel knowledgeable enough. In other words, Pay it Forward.