4 weeks on testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) and need some help with recent blood work

[icejosh]

4 weeks on trt and need some help with recent blood work

Hi
I need some help with these recent bloods done on wk3 of being on testogel.
My GP put me on 5g testogel which I started 4th july, Due to all the sighns of test def, Another GP ran a complete set of bloods before starting which showed I had low level T.
Im 39 I do 3 days of 300 cal cardio and 3 days of weights, diet has changed for the better in the last 6mths.

All I know is that my 1st set of bloods everything was in range, But I had a low level of T 10 nmol/l with the range being 7.9 - 28.9 ( im in the UK)
My GP had no intrest in bloods just said its better to treat the symptoms.
Well after 3 days noticed nothing apart from headaches, Then day 4 I woke at 3am as horny as a dog on heat, This as well as such a good energy level lasted for 4 days then it went down hill badly, Aches/ Anxiety/ sweats / foggy feeling and severe tiredness.
I had bloods done after wk3 and this is what they came back as.

Testosterone- 40 nmol/l range 7.9 - 28.9 ( an increase of 30)
SHBG - 21 range 11-54
DHEA - 4.8 range 2.0 - 15.0
Oestradiol - 347 pmol/l range 28-156 ( never had this tested before, im assuming this is the same as E2)
LH-0.7 range 2-9
FSH 0.5 range 2 -12
Now im assuming that my natural test production is not happening now and that im relying on the Testogel for my T. But is it that the Test is being converted into E2 and the rest of the Test which is high has nothing to bind to?
I have never fely so bad, GP said take 25mg of Clomid each day this will help, My Endo said just stop everything.
I can get hold of arimidex and aromasin on Monday would this be the way to go?
If so what dose and for how long and which of the 2?
Appreciate any help guys, Thanks

 

[totalburnout]

You have a huge E2 problem. Run away from your original doctor.

If you can get anastrozole (arimidex) or aromasin - you'll need some to bring your estrogen down to something in this stratosphere.

 

[icejosh]

Thanks
I don't have any gyno problems as far as sore nipples, I do have a lot of water retention and have put on 6lbs since the start of testosterone replacement therapy (TRT), which I know is not muscle mass.
I have a lot of symptoms of low E2 such as fatigue/ Head fog / dryskin / sleep issues / libido/ anxiety. Are these also common in excess E2?
Which would be better arimidex or aromasin? If arimidex would 0.5mg be better ED for a week then go onto 0.25 EOD then possibly 0.25 twice per week. And then run some more bloods?

 

[Megatron28]

Thanks
I don't have any gyno problems as far as sore nipples, I do have a lot of water retention and have put on 6lbs since the start of testosterone replacement therapy (TRT), which I know is not muscle mass.
I have a lot of symptoms of low E2 such as fatigue/ Head fog / dryskin / sleep issues / libido/ anxiety. Are these also common in excess E2?
Which would be better arimidex or aromasin? If arimidex would 0.5mg be better ED for a week then go onto 0.25 EOD then possibly 0.25 twice per week. And then run some more bloods?

Those are all signs of high estrogen. Arimidex and Aromasin both work. Pick whichever one is easier or cheaper to get.

If Arimidex, DON'T take .5mg every day for a week. That will crush your estrogen levels and you will feel far worse than you do currently. Try taking .5mg the first two days. After that try going to .25mg every 3.5 days. Get blood work in about two weeks to see how you are responding to that.

Taking clomid at this point is stupid unless you want to stop testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) and try to restart your natural production -- assuming you were diagnosed with secondary hypogondism. But most likely ypou will just return to your former Low T levels once you stop the clomid.

Don't stop cold turkey. Your natty T is shut down. You can tell this by looking at your LH and FSH. They are next to nil.

Lastly, gels don't work well for most guys. Aromatise a lot (convert to estrogen). Expensive. You risk transferring it to the women and children in your life. Absorbs through you skin inconsistently. Do yourself a favor and demand injections. The "magic words" are mentioning transfer risk to kids/spouse.

What were your pre-TRT lab results? I hope you got some. Symptoms lead you to figuring out is wrong, but you need a medical history, exam, and lab work. Unfortunately, many things can cause the symptoms one has with Low T. Sleep apnea. Poor diet. Thyroid problems. You need numbers to see what is going on. Don't let your doctors be lazy. They work for you.

 

[icejosh]

Thanks Megat
I appreciate the help very much, I will run that with Arimidex from Monday.
I did have bloods done pre starting testosterone replacement therapy (TRT), Full T panel TSH T3 T4 FT3. My GP and Endo said they where ok other than the low T, Ive had a Sleep studie in the past year which showed mild apnea, given a CPAP which made no diff.
Diet has changed a massive amount in the last 6 mths (Diet based on Macros.)
The test that I didn't get from the beginning was the Estradial test, Which Endo and GP said your a man you don't need to check them.( explains a lot really) considering my levels are so high.
I would like to stop the gels and to see if I can kick start my own production, I have Clomid and Nolvadex would I need the both of them? also with gels would it be ok to start the clomid the following day?
My LH and FSH are zero so would I need Clomid and Nolvadex together or just the 1?
The 3 weeks of being on Testogel is no heavy cycle so im not sure how long I would take Clomid and how much to kickstart my own production.
Thanks again Mega

 

[Megatron28]

Thanks Megat
I appreciate the help very much, I will run that with Arimidex from Monday.
I did have bloods done pre starting testosterone replacement therapy (TRT), Full T panel TSH T3 T4 FT3. My GP and Endo said they where ok other than the low T, Ive had a Sleep studie in the past year which showed mild apnea, given a CPAP which made no diff.
Diet has changed a massive amount in the last 6 mths (Diet based on Macros.)
The test that I didn't get from the beginning was the Estradial test, Which Endo and GP said your a man you don't need to check them.( explains a lot really) considering my levels are so high.
I would like to stop the gels and to see if I can kick start my own production, I have Clomid and Nolvadex would I need the both of them? also with gels would it be ok to start the clomid the following day?
My LH and FSH are zero so would I need Clomid and Nolvadex together or just the 1?
The 3 weeks of being on Testogel is no heavy cycle so im not sure how long I would take Clomid and how much to kickstart my own production.
Thanks again Mega

Your estradiol is so high now because of the gel. It is aromatising. Gels are notorious for this. Don't get me wrong, test cyp injections aromatise too -- but anecdotal reports say at a lesser extent. Who knows, there may be studies too.

You probably didn't have estradiol problems of this magnitude before TRT. You weren't producing much test so there wasn't a lot available to aromatise.

I'm gonna let others help you with your restart. I haven't tried one myself so I can't give you good advice. If I remember right, you aren't taking hcg currently, right? Were you diagnosed as primary or secondary hypogonadotropic? Why not work with your Endo to design a restart?

You might get more attention starting a new thread saying you want to try a restart. And search the old threads for one by a guy that went by the name Cashout. He wrote about his restart protocol after being on testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) for a while.

 

[Hoodlum]

Just to chime in, this is pretty much the state I found myself in, also based in the UK. I was given a box of gels, and sent packing out of the door, nothing else.

I felt like superman for the first few days, ready to ravage some women and lift up the entire gym. Then came the water retention, puffy nipples, and mood swings. I actually ended up sobbing a few nights because my emotions were out of control.

The docs in the UK simply do not have a clue what they are doing. It's totally irresponsible. Aromatase inhibitor (AI) and HCG are not prescribed, and gels are the preferred treatment option.

Eventually, I just took matters into my own hands, and sourced my own test cyp, adex and HCG. I self adminster now, and I've never felt better. Let me know if you want any more info - you won't be able to PM me yet as you've not got 50 posts.

 

[icejosh]

Hoodlum thanks for the reply , I'm just back from Spain so only just reading your post.
Your dead right a box of testogel and I was told you will feel a million dollars, Until the high E2 kicked in, GP's would do nothing and said E2 will not effect me.
Well im still on the gels although I did get a few boxes of adex as you can get them over the counter in Spain.
Like you I need to get off gels and onto Test Cyp also HCG. I know like you I would be banging my head against a brick wall trying with the GP's here.
Would be very interested in the road you took to get to the point of self administering, Thanks

 

[johnfromeurope]

I'm interested in why men with high estrogen, like over 45(normal range 8-42), get so bloated?
I mean, women in fist 3 months of pregnancy have their estrogen like sky rocket high-normal range for them is 215-4300! and they don't get so bloated.
In ovulation phase their normal range is 86-489ng/L. weird to me..