400 ng/dl is low testosterone level?
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Roush
I am banned!
the difference between 400 and 900 is slightly more then a guy's normal drop in testosterone from 7am to 5pm. Do you really feel that much better at 7am then you do at 5pm because your test levels are 30+% higher? prob not.
there is more to it then just pinning test.. OP is just 21 years old. If he gets on TRT for the next 60 years there is a lot to consider (besides just cost),, heck, at 30 he could be stuck having to go in to the hospital every two weeks and have to sit hooked up to a machine for two hours getting his red blood cells removed, he could have iron deficiencies and a host of other medical problems, just because he wants 'optimal' testosterone levels, when his levels are normal to begin with.
I'm not against trt, I'm on it myself, but there is a host of things to consider. Obvioulsy I'd prefer NOT to be on TRT and have normal test levels naturally.
Hypnotix
Well-known member
If you had just read my post.. you wouldn't have had to outsource your research lol
I literally said, eat well, train hard, rest as long as you need, and sleep 7-9 hrs a day..
Roush i agree with you, there is a lot of things to consider, but cencerns you mentioned are just ridiculous. TRT is nowadays more common than you think. Men in 40s and 50s coming to this board are many times put on trt by their doctor, not even knowing what testosterone is.
You mention levels dropping from 900 to 400 from 7am to 5pm. Yes, its true we dont feel much difference. But if your on trt, your levels are 24/7 at 900. I believe this is a big reason why trt is so effective-building muscle and having mental benefits. I believe testosterone has an 'integrative' character, meaning levels*time=effect.
and if in the morning you are at 400, thats 400*time=effect and if you are 900, thats 900*time=effect. Obviously those guys on TRT get more of the effect, because they are always 900. i am explaining this to myself from a mathematical perspective.
now someone could say, but our body developed through tens of thousands of years of evolution and it developed in a way that our levels rise and drop. Well, our body is not a perfect machine, obviously. And its natural that levels drop in the evening. Death and disease is natural as well. It just isnt the best.
Im not saying that everyone should go on trt. But it surely has certain benefits. And the cost. People on wall street are getting on testosterone just to be able to think quicker and to be more persuasive. If thats enough benefit for them to pay the cost, thats their decision.
But dont forget that living life at test levels 300/400 can lead to health problems down the road..
and guys for those of you who didnt know dan bilzerian aint fucking natural
who is? every fitness model today is on trt, 90% of ex-ufc fighters on trt, hollywood celebrities on trt, its really not that uncommon
You mention levels dropping from 900 to 400 from 7am to 5pm. Yes, its true we dont feel much difference. But if your on trt, your levels are 24/7 at 900. I believe this is a big reason why trt is so effective-building muscle and having mental benefits. I believe testosterone has an 'integrative' character, meaning levels*time=effect.
and if in the morning you are at 400, thats 400*time=effect and if you are 900, thats 900*time=effect. Obviously those guys on TRT get more of the effect, because they are always 900. i am explaining this to myself from a mathematical perspective.
now someone could say, but our body developed through tens of thousands of years of evolution and it developed in a way that our levels rise and drop. Well, our body is not a perfect machine, obviously. And its natural that levels drop in the evening. Death and disease is natural as well. It just isnt the best.
Im not saying that everyone should go on trt. But it surely has certain benefits. And the cost. People on wall street are getting on testosterone just to be able to think quicker and to be more persuasive. If thats enough benefit for them to pay the cost, thats their decision.
But dont forget that living life at test levels 300/400 can lead to health problems down the road..
and guys for those of you who didnt know dan bilzerian aint fucking natural
who is? every fitness model today is on trt, 90% of ex-ufc fighters on trt, hollywood celebrities on trt, its really not that uncommon
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Xwant
I am banned!
Roush i agree with you, there is a lot of things to consider, but cencerns you mentioned are just ridiculous. TRT is nowadays more common than you think. Men in 40s and 50s coming to this board are many times put on trt by their doctor, not even knowing what testosterone is.
You mention levels dropping from 900 to 400 from 7am to 5pm. Yes, its true we dont feel much difference. But if your on trt, your levels are 24/7 at 900. I believe this is a big reason why trt is so effective-building muscle and having mental benefits. I believe testosterone has an 'integrative' character, meaning levels*time=effect.
and if in the morning you are at 400, thats 400*time=effect and if you are 900, thats 900*time=effect. Obviously those guys on TRT get more of the effect, because they are always 900. i am explaining this to myself from a mathematical perspective.
now someone could say, but our body developed through tens of thousands of years of evolution and it developed in a way that our levels rise and drop. Well, our body is not a perfect machine, obviously. And its natural that levels drop in the evening. Death and disease is natural as well. It just isnt the best.
Im not saying that everyone should go on trt. But it surely has certain benefits. And the cost. People on wall street are getting on testosterone just to be able to think quicker and to be more persuasive. If thats enough benefit for them to pay the cost, thats their decision.
But dont forget that living life at test levels 300/400 can lead to health problems down the road..
and guys for those of you who didnt know dan bilzerian aint fucking natural
People on wall street use testosterone? How do you know that?
Hypnotix
Well-known member
Take your blinders off, and focus on what needs to be focused on. You're getting lost in shit that doesn't matter.. at all.
Why did you start TRT? What differences have been made in your life since starting?
Hypnotix
Well-known member
He's likely not struggled as much to put on muscle mass. Considering that's one example he mentioned he had trouble with when not on it.
After 6 months, I've seen vast improvements in mood, outlook on life, job performance, motivation, empathy, easier maintenance of muscle mass, and a hair increase in sexual desire.
halfwit
I like turtles.
Removing the phasic component of testosterone is why there are concerns, and is what gives fuel to the vulture lawyers as many of these guys don't have educated doctors.Roush i agree with you, there is a lot of things to consider, but cencerns you mentioned are just ridiculous. TRT is nowadays more common than you think . Men in 40s and 50s coming to this board are many times put on trt by their doctor, not even knowing what testosterone is.
You mention levels dropping from 900 to 400 from 7am to 5pm. Yes, its true we dont feel much difference. But if your on trt, your levels are 24/7 at 900. I believe this is a big reason why trt is so effective-building muscle and having mental benefits. I believe testosterone has an 'integrative' character, meaning levels*time=effect.
and if in the morning you are at 400, thats 400*time=effect and if you are 900, thats 900*time=effect. Obviously those guys on TRT get more of the effect, because they are always 900. i am explaining this to myself from a mathematical perspective.
now someone could say, but our body developed through tens of thousands of years of evolution and it developed in a way that our levels rise and drop. Well, our body is not a perfect machine, obviously. And its natural that levels drop in the evening. Death and disease is natural as well. It just isnt the best.
Im not saying that everyone should go on trt. But it surely has certain benefits. And the cost. People on wall street are getting on testosterone just to be able to think quicker and to be more persuasive. If thats enough benefit for them to pay the cost, thats their decision.
But dont forget that living life at test levels 300/400 can lead to health problems down the road..
and guys for those of you who didnt know dan bilzerian aint fucking natural
This is why it's imperative to be our own best health care advocates and learn as much as as possible BEFORE taking the plunge. I don't want to list out all the negative side effects that can come from improperly managed care, but death is one of them, and I'm not exaggerating.
Hypnotix nailed this one, and I would follow Apollon's advice; get a sleep study. TRT changed my life in every possible way for the better, but I also had a total testosterone of about 1/4 of yours, OP.
If you cannot remedy your issues (porn non-enjoyment is NOT a libido issue), and have exhausted every option at your disposal, including SERM therapy - then I'd think about TRT. It's a life-long commitment, just like being married to that needle and vial.
My .02c
Those are my reasons for interest in TRT.
Whats really the point of OP waiting? If the levels are 400 now, at 21 in the morning, probably they are around 300 or 250 in the day or evening. How will they be at 25? 30? Even worse.
Why wait til 30, and waste your 20s on having shitty T levels, and then hop on when 30 anyway. When he could pin now, have super great testosterone and feel good, have a better life in his youth?
Why wait til 30, and waste your 20s on having shitty T levels, and then hop on when 30 anyway. When he could pin now, have super great testosterone and feel good, have a better life in his youth?
Roush
I am banned!
Because his testosterone is in the 'normal range'.. he does not have a disease or a medical issue that is in need of treatment. Doctors normally treat health issues and ailments. Having NON optimal testosterone levels is not a health issue and no responsible doctor would probably treat him.
until he is diagnosed with hypogonadism , and taking measurements to find out why and to come up with healthy life long protocols to treat the problem, there is no medical condition here to treat. Thats why he should not get on at 21 years old.
could he develop hypogonadism at some point and need TRT in the future one day . sure. should he be pro-active now?. well, could he develop cancer one day, sure.. does that mean he should go on chemo therapy right now? no !
the OP could have a poor diet, smoke too much pot, and spend too much time being a lazy ass gamer and playing around on the internet and that is why his test levels are not high. He may just need a lifestyle change,, NOT a life long commitment to medical treatment.
Roush
I am banned!
why. because I was diagnosed with Low T and doc recommended me get on TRT at my age. What difference has it made ?
not a whole lot. I was successful and active before TRT. After trt the only thing that has changed is I'm a bigger Asshole now then I was before,, I was in a very monogamous relationship with my wife before TRT, and after I was not. I've fired more employees in the last three years of being on TRT then I had the previous 10 years prior.
I put on 30 pounds of muscle the first year of TRT. But that was due to lifestyle changes as well.
nothing that life changing or positive. big deal, my test levels went from 168 to 1200. You young guys think that it is some mind altering trip and changes a guy from peter parker to spiderman. It's really not that big a deal
To be honest 400 will make a guy have not the same drive and libido and just general sense of well being as he could have with 800-1000, he might very likely feel sluggish and tired very often, this will reduce his life quality alot, maybe going in and out of semi depressions very often.
Its not like Its so difficult taking a shot of T every week, takes about 2-5minutes If I understand correctly.
"normal range" doesnt neccesarily mean a good level, why feel like a 70 year old man in the best years of your time, holding it off like 10 years?
Roush
I am banned!
I lived with low testosterone until I was 35 years old. I built a business, had 4 kids, was very competitive in a multitude of hobbies, and had plenty of drive, motivation and sex drive with a total T of 168.. its an exaggeration to think that Low T is somehow a death sentence. Its not.. in fact, guys who naturally have upper lever Testosterone levels die on average 8 years younger then those who have medium to lower level T levels.
Taking a T shot every week is simply the 'action' of administering the treatment , thats it. but life time commitment to TRT itself is a whole lot more then that. Apart from the medical issues that are all involved, there is also the financial. If I'm on TRT the rest of my life and I live until I am 85 years old, then I'm going to be at least $400,000.00+ more poor when I die because that is at least what TRT will cost me
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Xwant
I am banned!
How much money bodybuilding cost you?
Roush
I am banned!
I'm not a body builder.. but being on TRT cost me 600-$700 a month. Add in anti-aging compounds to treat the effects of aging and can easily put that at over a grand or two a month. Of course then there is food, another $800+ a month just for me and another $1000+ for the family.
Xwant
I am banned!
Being on TRT will cost $50-$60 for me. Including blood work.
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