5th Cycle - Adding Tren - PreFlight Checklist

[musteatbigger]

With a few cycles under my belt I'm attempt to add in Tren to try something that doesn't aromatize.

Background
Cycles 4: 1 Oral, 3 Test-E 500/500/600
Age: 34, First Cycle at 30, Trained naturally from 22-30
Height: 5'8"
Weight: 165-170 @ 10% BF while off cycle

First cycle was an oral only, on the advice of gym bros. Never again. After that I did a bit of independent research and have had 3 successful cycles of Test only. Looking to add Tren. After research it looks like I'll be following fairly the same safety protocols as a Test Cycle and PCT.

The Plan:
Donated Blood two weeks ago
Having blood tests this week

Week 1: Test E 200mg, Tren A 200mg to assess how my body responds to Tren
Week 2: Test E 200mg. Tren A 250mg
Week 3-12: Test E 200mg, Tren A 300mg

Alternatively considering cutting cycle to 10 weeks based on some reading.

On cycle support
HCG 500ui/w
Exemestane 12.5mg E3D or E4D Adjusted down for lower Test dose
Caber .125 or .25mg x2/w

PCT:
1000 ui HCG Daily the 10 days leading up to the start of PCT
Clomid 50/50/50/50
Tamoxifent 40/40/20/20

Various supps on cycle:
Pantothenic Acid
Ubiquinol
NAC
D3
Fish Oil
Multi Vit
ZMA
Glutamine

I've been getting a few conflicting reports of the best way to support a lower does of Test + Tren. Some people seem to be able to get away without using an AI or Caber however it seems the majority recommend a low dose of AI/Caber to play it on the safe side.

Prior to my first cycle my T was already on the low side, between 230-330 across multiple tests about a little over a month apart so my T runs pretty low naturally. I'm slightly concerned with crashing my E2 with such a low dose of Test E + an AI. During my last cycle I used liquid Exemest that I think was improperly dosed. One bottle appeared to not be working (high E sides). Switched to a different bottle that crashed my E at the same dose, low E sides popped up and my E did a bit of bouncing up and down before stabilizing. I have a new supplier for my AI and its non-liquid so I'm expecting a more consistent dosage.

What are thoughts on starting the AI and Caber a few days to a week after my first pin? Bad idea?

Any huge gaps or blind spots in my game plan or does it look good to go?

Thanks!

 

[Milton]

whats your diet like at 165 lbs?

 

[musteatbigger]

I had my RMR measured a few years ago and it was right around 1700, I had a bit less muscle mass back then so that could have increased. I'll go get it tested again.

When I'm trying to gain I'll aim for 35/35/30 @ 3800-4000 cals. Start on the low end and keep increasing until I see rapid fat gain. Ill usually gain a bit of muscle and some fat, switch to 3600 cals for maint, then drop down carbs and up protein to bring cals down to 2500.

With my previous cycles I've been able to get "foot holds" so to speak that are just above my platue at the time. Post cycle I'll lose some strength but retain enough to keep my above my last sticking point. I've ate my way up to the 180s, but it was a dirty, dirty bulk. Worked out like crazy, but after cutting I only gained minimal muscle. Most of the weight gain was fat and water.

 

[TheResearcher]

I'm all for leanness, but training for 8-12 years and 165 pounds @ 10%...your diet may need some modification.
Give us macros.
Give us your goals.

 

[tbonexl]

Using aromasin e3d or e4d is absolutely useless. Might as well not even take it. Using it eod is borderline pushing it. I would say since you really have only done test cycles in the past, I wouldn't recommend jumping into tren yet. Maybe npp or deca.
If you're dead set on tren, running it a full 12 weeks your first go will be difficult to pull off at best. I would start with the higher dose (300-400mgs) per week. If it gets crazy, you can back off the dose or abort. Pinning every day seems to cut sides down more too. Something to consider.

 

[anzel]

Listen to these guys they are knowledgeable and have brought up some important point.

Good luck with your cycle
Anzel
Euro-Pharmacies.net

 

[DucBase]

Appropriate username. You could easily eat your way into another 20lbs of gains.

 

[Teutonic]

Hello and Welcome and let me say for a 1 st post I AM VERY impressed and may use it as STICKY for othere s to follow.
Refreshingly comprehensive.

This IS a tough audience but everyone who posted did bring up some good point s .
Food is king to size period.
Having run test x 3 is again refreshingly "experienced" as is your age. Ai s, AAS doses are all INDIVIDUALLY exclusive to the user with some basic general rule s w respect to half live s, tolerance, side effect s for the individual etc.
Deca is a 19 nor as is it s cousin the faster acting shorter estered NPP BOTH which I do not do as my blood turn s to cold motor oil w respect to hemocrit s which lead me to bleeding myself into a Pyrex measuring cup and at my advanced age to much trouble. It s a wonderous compound for joint pain or ache s strength etc . I m an old power-lifter soccer phenom guy downhill skier whose knee s are as bad as a bitch/punks going down taking a knee in D block trying to survive another week lol.

U got to find ur own way so I ll tell my story with tren E. I am completely INTOLERANT of any pin of tren over 100 mg and rather stick with 50 mg tren A , e o d or e d if I m pounding it but again I m toooo old.
I instead match it with PSL S PROP in a 50/50 1 cc shot. My foray into a 200 mg shot of tren e was akin to a bad if light acid trip with paranoia and vivid f n dream s and sphincster tearing cough that left me fetal and sweating like the punk on D block.
It was 2.5 yr s before trying tren a at 50 e o d (with a test base ) and my man that is a wonderfully powerful compound even at my geriatric dose.

Ai s and DA s.

I not only do low dose short estered drug cycle s as I m old but also I HATE complicated "stuff" and personally use no ai as my mammaries were cut out in 88 . I like a lil high e2 for the water it help s keep in my joint s and muscle s as water equal s storage of GLCOGEN the fuel we need to look and perform like....well.....gearheads.
AND any issue s that skew blood s can be better addressed by lowering or dropping the AAS augmenting and causing same , see ?

Again I am in tune with me and this approach is for ME and me only. U2 will w trial and error find what s best for you in time. Every post had merit I just gave you my take. It s not the dose but the food u eat, the 110 percent you give in gym and resting that are waaay more important or e one be d pinning but they can t do what we do so they don t. Pussies they are..yes.


Please stick around and ask away . It s a very knowledgeable crew if gruff at time but everyone s either on, getting off, trying to get more lol but it s all said with good intent ; plus bashing...I mean just bullying a NEWBIE will be crushed.


Welcome.

 

[musteatbigger]

I'm all for leanness, but training for 8-12 years and 165 pounds @ 10%...your diet may need some modification.
Give us macros.
Give us your goals.

Using skin calipers (multiple sets by multiple people) would place my BF at about 9%, at the same time a bodpod would read me at 12%. Some research I did said that the bodpod can give an inflated number for subjects outside of the "normal" body type. Either way I decided to go with the bodpod numbers to reduce the chance of human error with the calipers giving me a easier way to track fat loss/gain. After last cut bodpod put me at 10, calipers at 8. Eyeballing Id say closer to 9% is more accurate.

I'm open to any diet or training advice. I platued out at 155 years ago, got extremely regimented with meals, and managed to slowly eek out a few more pounds. Every so often I'll try different macros and training plans. Small gains then my body adjusts. It could be in part due to my natural test running on the lower end of the scale. I fucking hate excuses but it's a bitch trying to build muscle th T levels of a 70 year old.

 

[Teutonic]

....water immersion is the only way to be sure outside of an autopsy I m o. The rest is a best guess.

 

[musteatbigger]

Solid advice everyone. Thank you. I completely forgot about Exemestane's HL when thinking about lowering the dose. Spacing dosage that far apart I probably would have just been sending my E2 bouncing rather than keeping it nice and even.

Lot's to think about. For now I rest and dream of hitting 185 naturally. For then I would truly be a beast.

 

[scorob777]

Seems to me a test / deca cycle might be a better fit for your goals - in terms of both being a milder next step than tren, and more effective at adding mass.

What do you think about 200 test/w and 400 deca/w for 16 weeks? Could use NPP on the front end to get up on the blood concentration faster, or could think about dbol kickstart.

 

[TheResearcher]

I'm open to any diet or training advice. I platued out at 155 years ago, got extremely regimented with meals, and managed to slowly eek out a few more pounds. Every so often I'll try different macros and training plans. Small gains then my body adjusts. It could be in part due to my natural test running on the lower end of the scale. I fucking hate excuses but it's a bitch trying to build muscle th T levels of a 70 year old.

Believe me when I say, I am a hard gainer. It has taken me years upon years to go from 150 to 210+/-. I am your same height, but 38 years old.

But, at your age, your current weight...I am putting it nicely...eat some fukn food and bulk up. Money spent on gear is wasted at this point...I'd rather see you spend on quality steak, burger, salmon, and loads of good carbs. Up your intake.

Give us your diet breakdown, per day when you can.