8 Months on TRT with no improvement

[Waterpolo820]

Howdy everyone!

So just like the title says, I’ve been on TRT (Test inj and HCG) for about 8 months now however I’ve yet to feel better at all.
The only aspect that has improved is the ED. Everything else - brain fog, mental clarity, fatigue, etc. has been the same (pretty bad). And it’s getting pretty frustrating to say the least.

(I’m 23 years old btw)

My pre TRT numbers were:
TT: 248 (348-1197)
LH: 1.2 (1.7-8.6)
FSH: 3.5 (1.5-12.4)

Here are my numbers per my last lab:
TT: 953 (348-1197)
Sensitive E2: 23 (3-70)
TSH: 2.8
T4: 7.4
Prolactin: 10.1 (4.0-15.2)
Progesterone: 1.1 (0.2-1.4)
Vitamin D: 14.7 (30-100) [Taking Vitamin D]
Iron Sat: 39% (15-55)

*All tests were AM tests and there were multiple tests

The only other tests that were abnormal were:
Sjorgen’s Anti SS-B: 2.1 (0.0-0.9)
ANA Direct: Positive (Normal is Negative)
But no Dr has really cared about these results

So I’ve seen maybe 4 new Drs since my last post, one of them was even a research doctor at a major University who charged me $600 for two visits.. And even he said he doesn’t know why I’m not feeling better.

My GP said why not try and antidepressant for a month to see if anything improves, and I don’t feel depressed, but I figured I can’t lose anything by trying - so after a month of Wellbutrin XL there was still no change and now I am tapering off of that.
I tried eating gluten free and that didn’t fix anything either. Next week I am going to get a Rx of some Provigil to hopefully bandaid my problems for now.

I workout fairly regularly, 4-5 times a week, both cardio and weights, but I still can’t manage to lose any weight around my waist (the rest of my body is fairly lean and vascular)

So I’m crawling back to the forums in search of the smallest flicker of hope! haha

Thanks in advance!

 

[ezed413]

Howdy everyone!

So just like the title says, I’ve been on TRT (Test inj and HCG) for about 8 months now however I’ve yet to feel better at all.
The only aspect that has improved is the ED. Everything else - brain fog, mental clarity, fatigue, etc. has been the same (pretty bad). And it’s getting pretty frustrating to say the least.

(I’m 23 years old btw)

My pre TRT numbers were:
TT: 248 (348-1197)
LH: 1.2 (1.7-8.6)
FSH: 3.5 (1.5-12.4)

Here are my numbers per my last lab:
TT: 953 (348-1197)
Sensitive E2: 23 (3-70)
TSH: 2.8
T4: 7.4
Prolactin: 10.1 (4.0-15.2)
Progesterone: 1.1 (0.2-1.4)
Vitamin D: 14.7 (30-100) [Taking Vitamin D]
Iron Sat: 39% (15-55)

*All tests were AM tests and there were multiple tests

The only other tests that were abnormal were:
Sjorgen’s Anti SS-B: 2.1 (0.0-0.9)
ANA Direct: Positive (Normal is Negative)
But no Dr has really cared about these results

So I’ve seen maybe 4 new Drs since my last post, one of them was even a research doctor at a major University who charged me $600 for two visits.. And even he said he doesn’t know why I’m not feeling better.

My GP said why not try and antidepressant for a month to see if anything improves, and I don’t feel depressed, but I figured I can’t lose anything by trying - so after a month of Wellbutrin XL there was still no change and now I am tapering off of that.
I tried eating gluten free and that didn’t fix anything either. Next week I am going to get a Rx of some Provigil to hopefully bandaid my problems for now.

I workout fairly regularly, 4-5 times a week, both cardio and weights, but I still can’t manage to lose any weight around my waist (the rest of my body is fairly lean and vascular)

So I’m crawling back to the forums in search of the smallest flicker of hope! haha

Thanks in advance!

Maybe you have adrenal fatigue like me. I was diagnosed with it, and was told to take pregnenolone. It's been 4 months, and I still have fatigue. I am going to try this out, Biomax Formulations - Adrenal Cortex Extract Drops to see if it works. Some say it can take 6 months to a year to heal from it.

 

[Megatron28]

What is your TRT protocol? What do you take? How much? How often?

And when was this blood test done relative to your last injection?

Do you have a full set of labs that you can show us?

 

[Alpin]

Were you running an AI for this test ?
that sensitive test is a fairly low level for Estradiol.
I noticed you are familiar with forum vocab with codes like: "E2"
lol.....
Looks like you been in the game for a while...

 

[Waterpolo820]

Maybe you have adrenal fatigue like me. I was diagnosed with it, and was told to take pregnenolone. It's been 4 months, and I still have fatigue. I am going to try this out, Biomax Formulations - Adrenal Cortex Extract Drops to see if it works. Some say it can take 6 months to a year to heal from it.

I'll look into that, but Cortisol, DHEA, and DHEA-S all came back normal

What is your TRT protocol? What do you take? How much? How often?

Test Cyp
60mg E3.5D

HCG 500iu EOD

Vitamin D 50,000iu E7D

Wellbutrin - was taking 150mg ED - tapering off right now at 75mgE3D - should be completely off of it in a week

 

[Waterpolo820]

Were you running an AI for this test ?
that sensitive test is a fairly low level for Estradiol.
I noticed you are familiar with forum vocab with codes like: "E2"
lol.....
Looks like you been in the game for a while...

No AI for this test - i have Adex on hand but rarely take it
And yessir haha Read these boards pretty regularly!

 

[Megatron28]

Have you checked your SHBG? Are you familiar with Newtohrt's story on here?

Also, for what it is worth, I take 10,000 iu's of vitamin D daily. It puts my levels at 88. I used to have numbers like you. I found some on Amazon that comes at that strength. The pills are easy to swallow.

 

[Megatron28]

A lot of guys only do HCG at 500iu twice a week. Perhaps you are taking too much. Have you ever tried adjusting this?

 

[Waterpolo820]

Have you checked your SHBG? Are you familiar with Newtohrt's story on here?

Also, for what it is worth, I take 10,000 iu's of vitamin D daily. It puts my levels at 88. I used to have numbers like you. I found some on Amazon that comes at that strength. The pills are easy to swallow.

I'm not sure if I'm familiar with his particular story, I'll do a search for it. But I am familiar with the theory that if your SHBG is too low then you run the risk of not benefiting from TRT.
My SHBG levels last they were checked came in at: 22.3 (16.5-55.9)

I'm on a vit D scrip for the next year at least, I use to be on 100,000iu per week (E3.5D), I'll probably switch to what your talking about after this is up when insurance stops paying for it haha

A lot of guys only do HCG at 500iu twice a week. Perhaps you are taking too much. Have you ever tried adjusting this?

And I've tried that too, from not taking it at all, to once per week, twice a week, and finally coming back to what the Doc Rx'd at 3x per week. I've also tried varying doses from 250-500iu

 

[Alpin]

this is interesting....
I am on almost the identical protocol. I was doing HCG at 500 i.u. E3D and knocked it down to 350 i.u.
You were 8 month into TRT and have E2 like this with no AI....that's fantastic.
I feel it's a totally valid claim to believe that E2 can crash so much easier by taking an AI on a TRT protocol after reviewing your numbers....
I doubt there is much aromatization from 60 mg E3D T shots....
I use 0.125 mg ADEX E3D presently. I can't get a lab req. to run test for E2 cause my doc wont give me one.
I'd love to know my current E2.
I have to know how much I am aromatizing with 350 i.u. E3D....
I have trouble falling asleep at night and need to workout to go to bed, some break outs at back of neck....no where else though...
no sore dry joints though...

 

[Alpin]

A lot of guys only do HCG at 500iu twice a week. Perhaps you are taking too much. Have you ever tried adjusting this?

There's TRT docs that prescribe 400 i.u. EOD for guys on T shots. All this HCG added to TRT protocols just makes it so much more difficult to monitor E2....

 

[Alpin]

Have you had a sleep study done ?

 

[Waterpolo820]

this is interesting....
I am on almost the identical protocol. I was doing HCG at 500 i.u. E3D and knocked it down to 350 i.u.
You were 8 month into TRT and have E2 like this with no AI....that's fantastic.
I feel it's a totally valid claim to believe that E2 can crash so much easier by taking an AI on a TRT protocol after reviewing your numbers....
I doubt there is much aromatization from 60 mg E3D T shots....
I use 0.125 mg ADEX E3D presently. I can't get a lab req. to run test for E2 cause my doc wont give me one.
I'd love to know my current E2.
I have to know how much I am aromatizing with 350 i.u. E3D....
I have trouble falling asleep at night and need to workout to go to bed, some break outs at back of neck....no where else though...
no sore dry joints though...

Every once in a while I get the feeling of my E2 being high and I take a quater tab, but I haven't needed to regularly take Adex since I was on clomid when attempting a restart (didn't work obviously haha)

Have you had a sleep study done ?

Yessir, came back negative for sleep apnea, and I only have very minor snoring while laying on my back... But I never really sleep on my back outside of that sleep study anyways so don't really find that useful information lol

 

[newtohrt]

My symptoms exactly....

Howdy everyone!

So just like the title says, I’ve been on TRT (Test inj and HCG) for about 8 months now however I’ve yet to feel better at all.
The only aspect that has improved is the ED. Everything else - brain fog, mental clarity, fatigue, etc. has been the same (pretty bad). And it’s getting pretty frustrating to say the least.

(I’m 23 years old btw)

My pre TRT numbers were:
TT: 248 (348-1197)
LH: 1.2 (1.7-8.6)
FSH: 3.5 (1.5-12.4)

Here are my numbers per my last lab:
TT: 953 (348-1197)
Sensitive E2: 23 (3-70)
TSH: 2.8
T4: 7.4
Prolactin: 10.1 (4.0-15.2)
Progesterone: 1.1 (0.2-1.4)
Vitamin D: 14.7 (30-100) [Taking Vitamin D]
Iron Sat: 39% (15-55)

*All tests were AM tests and there were multiple tests

The only other tests that were abnormal were:
Sjorgen’s Anti SS-B: 2.1 (0.0-0.9)
ANA Direct: Positive (Normal is Negative)
But no Dr has really cared about these results

So I’ve seen maybe 4 new Drs since my last post, one of them was even a research doctor at a major University who charged me $600 for two visits.. And even he said he doesn’t know why I’m not feeling better.

My GP said why not try and antidepressant for a month to see if anything improves, and I don’t feel depressed, but I figured I can’t lose anything by trying - so after a month of Wellbutrin XL there was still no change and now I am tapering off of that.
I tried eating gluten free and that didn’t fix anything either. Next week I am going to get a Rx of some Provigil to hopefully bandaid my problems for now.

I workout fairly regularly, 4-5 times a week, both cardio and weights, but I still can’t manage to lose any weight around my waist (the rest of my body is fairly lean and vascular)

So I’m crawling back to the forums in search of the smallest flicker of hope! haha

Thanks in advance!

This is exactly how I feel now 3 years in, except that I have no improvement with ED, either...but I am 49 so maybe that is the issue with that. I too, have nothing amiss on any blood test, but still feel nothing beneficial whatsoever from TRT. I have even tried the small daily dose of Test Prop that is supposed to help when one has low SHBG...but it feels no different than pinning twice a week or once a week. Multiple doctors have no clue, etc...I am not depressed, but it sure is tiresome...I see this on other TRT forums as well, more often than one would think (going on TRT and getting no benefit, or even having one's libido get worse instead of better, regardless of how "dialed in" you are on paper.)

 

[Alpin]

Every once in a while I get the feeling of my E2 being high and I take a quater tab, but I haven't needed to regularly take Adex since I was on clomid when attempting a restart (didn't work obviously haha)

I hear you. Please tell me what you feel when you suspect your E2 being a little high ?
How can you tell?
I notice this as well, it's like a slight redness in the face, a little anxious.
I'm interested to know what higher E2 sides ppl feel.
B.T.W. what dose of clomid di you run for the restart and how long for, did you use HCG prior to the clomid ?

 

[Waterpolo820]

This is exactly how I feel now 3 years in, except that I have no improvement with ED, either...but I am 49 so maybe that is the issue with that. I too, have nothing amiss on any blood test, but still feel nothing beneficial whatsoever from TRT. I have even tried the small daily dose of Test Prop that is supposed to help when one has low SHBG...but it feels no different than pinning twice a week or once a week. Multiple doctors have no clue, etc...I am not depressed, but it sure is tiresome...I see this on other TRT forums as well, more often than one would think (going on TRT and getting no benefit, or even having one's libido get worse instead of better, regardless of how "dialed in" you are on paper.)

I came across your post after megatron mentioned it and can't believe how other people are on the same boat - I thought I was crazy or something! haha
Is it your general consensus that the SHBG levels are the culprit here? Out of curiosity how high were you able to get your SHBG levels?

I hear you. Please tell me what you feel when you suspect your E2 being a little high ?
How can you tell?
I notice this as well, it's like a slight redness in the face, a little anxious.
I'm interested to know what higher E2 sides ppl feel.
B.T.W. what dose of clomid di you run for the restart and how long for, did you use HCG prior to the clomid ?

For me it tends to be a sensation in the nipples lol

I ran clomid on two different occasions - first time was 25mg EOD for about two weeks before I couldn't take the emotional side effects lol and the second time I did 12.5mg EOD and it was still about two weeks before I had to stop for the same reasons

I ran a monotherpay of Adex after that too - 1mg ED - but after about three weeks my joints were killig me and I constantly had a feeling of being bloated and not being bloated
That's when I started T injections and HCG

 

[Alpin]

I came across your post after megatron mentioned it and can't believe how other people are on the same boat - I thought I was crazy or something! haha
Is it your general consensus that the SHBG levels are the culprit here? Out of curiosity how high were you able to get your SHBG levels?



For me it tends to be a sensation in the nipples lol

I ran clomid on two different occasions - first time was 25mg EOD for about two weeks before I couldn't take the emotional side effects lol and the second time I did 12.5mg EOD and it was still about two weeks before I had to stop for the same reasons

I ran a monotherpay of Adex after that too - 1mg ED - but after about three weeks my joints were killig me and I constantly had a feeling of being bloated and not being bloated
That's when I started T injections and HCG

1 mg of ADEX ED ?
that is way too high!!!!
Who did u consult when you ran this dose ?
I took 0.25 mg EOD and crashed my Estradiol and felt joint issues....even E3D at that dose and my joints were feeling it to some degree. I can't even imagine 1mg ED...damn!!!! wow!!!
I'm amazed at how some guys on here run 50 mg ED of clomid and don't complain of anything....
What "emotional sides" stood out the most, ?? crying, depression ???

 

[MBB]

1 mg of ADEX ED ?
that is way too high!!!!
Who did u consult when you ran this dose ?
I took 0.25 mg EOD and crashed my Estradiol and felt joint issues....even E3D at that dose and my joints were feeling it to some degree. I can't even imagine 1mg ED...damn!!!! wow!!!
I'm amazed at how some guys on here run 50 mg ED of clomid and don't complain of anything....
What "emotional sides" stood out the most, ?? crying, depression ???

I believe he's talking about adex monotherapy, not TRT. In that case a higher dose of adex can and often is used as the body is still producing endogenous TT, unlike TRT where there is a set dose frequently administered. Not to mention adex dosing is very individualized, I for one am on 0.375mg E3D and that doesn't seem to be cutting it, will more than likely up the dose very soon to 0.5mg E3d or increase the frequency to 0.25mg EOD.

 

[Alpin]

I believe he's talking about adex monotherapy, not TRT. In that case a higher dose of adex can and often is used as the body is still producing endogenous TT, unlike TRT where there is a set dose frequently administered. Not to mention adex dosing is very individualized, I for one am on 0.375mg E3D and that doesn't seem to be cutting it, will more than likely up the dose very soon to 0.5mg E3d or increase the frequency to 0.25mg EOD.

what are your views on E4D dosing of it ?
On HCG mono protocol of 500 i.u. 3 times a week (EOD dosing for 1500 i.u./week total)
Day before labs took 0.25 mg ADEX and did labs the following day after being on this protocol for 6 weeks.
TT= 500 ng/dl. Estradiol came in at 97 pmol/l (26 pg/ml)....I wonder if there was a "Rebound effect" till the next dose was taken 4 days later...
I don't have enough reqs. to gauge/measure this and would love to know....

 

[MBB]

what are your views on E4D dosing of it ?
On HCG mono protocol of 500 i.u. 3 times a week (EOD dosing for 1500 i.u./week total)
Day before labs took 0.25 mg ADEX and did labs the following day after being on this protocol for 6 weeks.
TT= 500 ng/dl. Estradiol came in at 97 pmol/l (26 pg/ml)....I wonder if there was a "Rebound effect" till the next dose was taken 4 days later...
I don't have enough reqs. to gauge/measure this and would love to know....

I'm on a E3D dosing schedule, so prefer to keep it to either that or EOD.

I'm all to familiar with the rebound effect, I've gone from feeling great to feeling lousy and sailing right past the 'sweet spot' from either too much or not enough adex. And like you I don't have a lot of reqs. to monitor it so it's taking a very long time to get dialled in.