9th week blood test - test too high (out of range)

[TR90125]

Ok, got it. So you think I could start off with .5 mg Aromatase inhibitor (AI) after test shot? Or you think I should do .25 mg instead? I guess as you said there's no way for us to know how it will effect me but, if I keep it at .5 day after that means my Aromatase inhibitor (AI) dose is staying closer to where I am now 1mg E7D, correct? If I change it to .25 then it will be much lower than what it is now? So in order to not change too much at once, the closest thing to do is to do Aromatase inhibitor (AI) .5 after each shot if doing 2 shots a week?

That would be an equivalent Aromatase inhibitor (AI) dosage. The bottom line is you have to start somewhere.

Most would agree that 200mg E5D exceeds what most need for HRT so I think you are on the right track. Either way, it is likely you may end up adjusting your Aromatase inhibitor (AI) regardless. I started at .25 EOD and am now taking .25 the day after I inject.

 

[username1]

I guess one thing that's been on my mind is that if I come down from 200 to 150mg will it effect the results I could achieve as far as gains and physically? I assume not, or else so many people wouldn't be doing it and it seems like a lot of people are cutting their dose, at the end of the day of course I don't want to jeopardize my health but, one thing I was wondering was if I should continue to run it at the regular dose to maximize my gains if I run it for a couple months or few months or something? I guess it wouldn't make that much difference long term health wise if I bring it down in a few months or so? Of course I'd have to take more Aromatase inhibitor (AI) for the time being. Or you think coming down to 150mg now will still be ok, since my test levels will still be on the high end?

 

[Frustrated1]

Damn this thread has gone full circle.

Username1 higher doses means higher risks and higher gains.

I wanted to point out again. If your t is high and you are lowering your dosage waiting about 3 days is a good idea to get you closer to your lower target. Think about it... Your over 1500(probably barely) injecting t ontop of that will make it higher yet. 3 days and your t will probably be at 1100.

 

[username1]

Damn this thread has gone full circle.

Username1 higher doses means higher risks and higher gains.

I wanted to point out again. If your t is high and you are lowering your dosage waiting about 3 days is a good idea to get you closer to your lower target. Think about it... Your over 1500(probably barely) injecting t ontop of that will make it higher yet. 3 days and your t will probably be at 1100.

so I did my last 200mg injection on wed. and my next shot is due on mon. i should wait until thursday to do a 75mg injection (i'm doing 2x a week) ?

 

[Packgus]

This is a great post guys! I am currently on the standard protocol of 200mg E5D. I am having E2 problems with this just like a lot of other people. I keep having to up my Aromatase inhibitor (AI) dose to keep estrogen in check. I just dont like taking too much AI.

So here is my plan. I plan on going with the 3 times per week injection (M/W/F) of 90mg each time. That is 90x3 = 270mg/week

Before I was taking 200mg each 5 days which is 200/5 = 40mg/day,
so 40 mg/day x 7days = 280mg /week.

so with the new plan I am increasing injection frequency as well as slightly lowering weekly dosage. what do you guys think?

 

[THE-DET-OAK]

ok I think I'm going to stick with 200mg but change it to E7D and see how that goes if I feel ok doing it once a week then I'll probably stick with that, would be easier for me than having to keep track of days always changing with E5D. I guess 200mg E7D could put me near 1500?

trough will probably be 1100-1300

Check it out. Hows that for a bullseye.

Heys guys I was hoping someone could clue me in on why some donate blood, does it get to thick? and is do to the extra test? I am currently taking 200 mg cyp every 7 days and .25 liquidex mon/wed/fri these are my results taken on 7th day morning just before next injection. What do you think?

CBC In Out Ref
WBC 7.8 3.8-10.8
RBC 5.97(H) 4.20-5.80
Hemoglob 17.6(H) 13.2-17.1
Hemocrit 52.5(H) 38.5-50%
RDW 15.1(H) 11-15%
Total Test 1034(H) 241-827
Estriadol 19 <or =39

 

[username1]

also how quickly can I go get bloods again? I want to try to get dialed in quick and not have to wait another 8 weeks not knowing where my estro is at, is 3 or 4 weeks enough if I'm not feeling sides? I know i've read you should get your bloods done when you're feeling good so if i'm not feeling sides and what-not in 3-4 weeks can i get the bloods to see if I have my estro and test dialed in?

i'm having a hard time deciding what to do since I don't want to compromise the gains i could achieve this early on, i'm only on my 15th or so shot. so i'm wanting to keep it at 200mg / wk for the time being but, I guess I can try to split it up over 3 days a week and see how it goes. I mean it's still less than what my current dose is, as packgus pointed out 200mg / e5d is 40mg a day so 200/7 will be 28.57. I guess if that doesn't bring down my test within range but, on high end and estro isn't dialed in then I'll have to cut back more but, this way if I cut down slow I can try to get dialed in to the high end.

Packgus, how much Aromatase inhibitor (AI) and how often do you currently take?

 

[username1]

Check it out. Hows that for a bullseye.

so you think it's ok to do E7D? What about splitting it up over the week to lower the peaks?

 

[THE-DET-OAK]

its just depends on you, i was just showing how its not that hard to guess where a dose will put you, blood test confirm it.

get your symptoms rectified first. There is nothing wrong with splitting up your total dose as many times as you want, the more you do the more stable blood levels will be.

With that being said, its not necessary for everyone to take those measures, some people are fine with once a week injections. it really does depend on the individual.

 

[Packgus]

also how quickly can I go get bloods again? I want to try to get dialed in quick and not have to wait another 8 weeks not knowing where my estro is at, is 3 or 4 weeks enough if I'm not feeling sides? I know i've read you should get your bloods done when you're feeling good so if i'm not feeling sides and what-not in 3-4 weeks can i get the bloods to see if I have my estro and test dialed in?

i'm having a hard time deciding what to do since I don't want to compromise the gains i could achieve this early on, i'm only on my 15th or so shot. so i'm wanting to keep it at 200mg / wk for the time being but, I guess I can try to split it up over 3 days a week and see how it goes. I mean it's still less than what my current dose is, as packgus pointed out 200mg / e5d is 40mg a day so 200/7 will be 28.57. I guess if that doesn't bring down my test within range but, on high end and estro isn't dialed in then I'll have to cut back more but, this way if I cut down slow I can try to get dialed in to the high end.

Packgus, how much Aromatase inhibitor (AI) and how often do you currently take?

Currently I am taking 1mg day 1 after shot, another 1mg day 2 after shot then 0.5mg day 3 after shot. that is Anastrozole.

I am keep Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) low at 500u per week

 

[username1]

its just depends on you, i was just showing how its not that hard to guess where a dose will put you, blood test confirm it.

get your symptoms rectified first. There is nothing wrong with splitting up your total dose as many times as you want, the more you do the more stable blood levels will be.

With that being said, its not necessary for everyone to take those measures, some people are fine with once a week injections. it really does depend on the individual.

I keep changing my mind on what to do lol but, if that's the case I feel like I would like to start with what's easier which E7D would be. Though what do you think about needing more Aromatase inhibitor (AI) if you don't split up injections due to higher peaks?

also how quickly can I go get bloods again? I'll get it from privatemdlabs so i just have the test and est numbers. I just want to get it done as quickly as possible to get dialed in quick not have to wait 8 weeks or so.

as for symptoms I don't have any, I feel fine. just trying to adjust to get my estro down and test within range.

 

[TR90125]

This is a great post guys! I am currently on the standard protocol of 200mg E5D. I am having E2 problems with this just like a lot of other people. I keep having to up my Aromatase inhibitor (AI) dose to keep estrogen in check. I just dont like taking too much AI.

So here is my plan. I plan on going with the 3 times per week injection (M/W/F) of 90mg each time. That is 90x3 = 270mg/week

Before I was taking 200mg each 5 days which is 200/5 = 40mg/day,
so 40 mg/day x 7days = 280mg /week.

so with the new plan I am increasing injection frequency as well as slightly lowering weekly dosage. what do you guys think?

My opinion is that you will still have to chase down your E2, but that is solely based on the fact that you are still injecting about the same amount of testosterone. Before I switched to my latest protocol I was already injecting 125mg E84 hrs and still had E2 and other issues. It was after dropping down to 75mg E84 hrs. that I noticed improvement and I think I may have a shot at eliminating my Adex altogether.

In my particular case, running my test constantly over 1500 or more was not well received by my body. I am down to .25 mg of Adex twice weekly and hope to get off it completely very soon. I encourage you to increase your injection frequency, but also feel the issue is a combination of both frequency and total dosage. Your planned weekly dosage of 270 is nearly double my 150 per week and my trough seems to be around 1100.

 

[Frustrated1]

My plan is to finish another month or so, get blood work again to see where I'm at. Then figure out my dosage and go e3d on everything same day. Maybe some Aromatase inhibitor (AI) the following day. It takes Test Cyp 1 day to reach 99% of peak and 2.3 days to peak for the average person. So it will only have .7 days to go down from peak going e3d. I'm less certain of HCG. I can feel it within 10 minutes. I would guess 4 hours until peak, just based on how I feel. So to me it would make sense to do Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) at the same time on this short schedule. But this is just my speculation of a solid protocol. Then I could run say 900-1200 in my trough, which would only be .7 days off from peak.

So for the real guru's what should a E3D target be?

 

[THE-DET-OAK]

Al-Futaisi AM, Al-Zakwani IS, Almahrezi AM, Morris D. Subcutaneous administration of testosterone. A pilot study report. Saudi Med J. 2006;27(12):1843-6.

ABSTRACT

OBJECTIVE: To investigate the effect of low doses of subcutaneous testosterone in hypogonadal men since the intramuscular route, which is the most widely used form of testosterone replacement therapy, is inconvenient to many patients. METHODS: All men with primary and secondary hypogonadism attending the reproductive endocrine clinic at Royal Victoria Hospital, Monteral, Quebec, Canada, were invited to participate in the study. Subjects were enrolled from January 2002 till December 2002. Patients were asked to self-administer weekly low doses of testosterone enanthate using 0.5 ml insulin syringe. RESULTS: A total of 22 patients were enrolled in the study. The mean trough was 14.48 +/- 3.14 nmol/L and peak total testosterone was 21.65 +/- 7.32 nmol/L. For the free testosterone the average trough was 59.94 +/- 20.60 pmol/L and the peak was 85.17 +/- 32.88 pmol/L. All of the patients delivered testosterone with ease and no local reactions were reported. CONCLUSION: Therapy with weekly subcutaneous testosterone produced serum levels that were within the normal range in 100% of patients for both peak and trough levels. This is the first report, which demonstrated the efficacy of delivering weekly testosterone using this cheap, safe, and less painful subcutaneous route

 

[THE-DET-OAK]

f i remember correctly the dosage used in the study was 50mg 2x weekly.

 

[THE-DET-OAK]

here it is

This was originally posted by HeavyIron

STABLE TESTOSTERONE LEVELS ACHIEVED WITH SUBCUTANEOUS TESTOSTERONE INJECTIONS

M.B. Greenspan, C.M. Chang
Division of Urology, Department of Surgery, McMaster University,
Hamilton, ON, Canada

Objectives: The preferred technique of androgen replacement has been intramuscular (IM) testosterone, but wide variations in testosterone levels are often seen. Subcutaneous (SC) testosterone injection is a novel approach; however, its physiological effects are unclear. We therefore investigated the sustainability of stable testosterone levels using SC therapy. Patients and methods: Between May and September 2005, we conducted a small pilot study involving 10 male patients with symptomatic late-onset hypogonadism.

Every patient had been stable on TE 200 mg IM for 1 year. Patients were instructed to self-inject with testosterone enanthate (TE) 100 mg SC (DELATESTRYL 200 mg/cc, Theramed Corp, Canada) into the anterior abdomen once weekly. Some patients were down-titrated to 50 mg based on their total testosterone (T) at 4 weeks.

Informed consent was obtained as SC testosterone administration is not officially approved by Health Canada. T levels were measured before and 24 hours after injection during weeks 1, 2, 3, and 4, and 96 hours after injection in week 6 and 8.

At week 12, PSA, CBC, and T levels were measured however; the week 12 data are still being collected.

Results: Prior to initiation of SC therapy, T was 19.14+3.48 nmol/l, hemoglobin 15.8+1.3 g/dl, hematocrit 0.47+0.02, and PSA 1.05+0.65 ng/ml. During the first 4 weeks, there was a steady increase in pre-injection T from 19.14+3.48 to 23.89+9.15 nmol/l (p¼0.1). However, after 8 weeks the post-injection T (25.77+7.67 nmol/l) remained similar to that of week 1 (27.46+12.91 nmol/l). Patients tolerated this therapy with no adverse effects.

Conclusions: A once-week SC injection of 50–100 mg of TE appears to achieve sustainable and stable levels of physiological T. This technique offers fewer physician visits and the use of smaller quantity of medication, thus lower costs. However, the long term clinical and physiological effects of this therapy need further evaluation.

 

[Frustrated1]

I see this was 12 years ago. But today nothing has changed. I did see another article that shows FTM gained 47% increase in belly fat going subq

 

[THE-DET-OAK]

I see this was 12 years ago. But today nothing has changed. I did see another article that shows FTM gained 47% increase in belly fat going subq

damn, i never saw that one, that would suck.

I posted not so much for the subQ but its the only place i can find any factual results on this type of dosing, very low amounts spread out evenly

 

[Frustrated1]

physiological effects of 47% more belly fat would downright suck. But that was FTM. Not exactly apples to apples. But still that was a controlled group as an average, not just one person.

I'm in complete agreement on the lower peaks and higher troughs, which is why I'm thinking e3d myself. But I'll probably use the slim pins in delts for that.

It would be nice to have a post that shows e3d or e3.5 days, amount per injection, total T, and how they feel. I don't think that many are on e3d or e3.5 days though because needles suck.