AAS and prostate issues over 40 - AAS turning your prostate into the size of a baseba

[AverageMan]

I’ve been researching this topic and would like those with long term AAS / TRT usage to chime in.

According to pretty much any medical study, AAS will stimulate the prostate to grow. This is a particular problem for those over the age of 40, as this is the time frame the prostate will grow and cause issues.

I completely understand that estrogen is being blamed as the cause for prostate enlargement / cancer, but there are no conclusive long term studies on this topic.

Sex Steroids and Prostate Carcinogenesis - BOSLAND - 2006 - Annals of the New York Academy of Sciences - Wiley Online Library

I’m looking for long term AAS, TRT folks to chime in on their personal experience

 

[Megatron28]

I don't want to look up the studies, but I think most recent studies have shown the Testosterone does not cause the prostate to become enlarged. I know Halfwit has posted several in the TRT forum over the years.

 

[halfwit]

This is a TREMENDOUS case of cause does NOT correlate with effect. DHT and other androgens are known to cause healthy prostate tissue to grow; this data unfortunately has been bastardized into a cautionary tale that has lead to such treatments as making men hypogonadal on purpose to removing the testes in order to prevent prostate cancer from progressing. What these knucke-heads forgot to check in the first place was the known carcinogenesis due to estradiol that we men produce from such androgens.

I linked the official findings just a week or two ago from the world's authority on cancers, showing that there is ZERO correlation between TRT/Testosterone/AAS and prostate cancer advancement/cause. I get that many doctors are still not aware of this and may get all butt-hurt when corrected, but progress in this area of medicine has always been slow and painful.

My .02c

 

[anzel]

I asked the same question and HW gave me the 411 as stated above. What now baffles me is that estrogene is carcinogenic but test isnt. But E is the main sex hormone in women . Its a raw deal for the ladies! But yes when a women gets cancer they are put on AI to stop the growth.

Question; when men get prostate cancer do they ever give them and AI??

Also I want to play devils advocate here.... HW just because studies and research show zero correlation doesnt mean its not possible. Its just that the right study hasnt been done yet.

 

[Mprtz]

Men are commonly given androgen blockers like Lupron... if you knock androgens down to zero it usually suspends cancer growth until the cells become refractory and mutate into a form that no longer requires androgens to grow. That can often buy you a few years. I've heard of so called cyclic ADP (androgen deprivation therapy) where you re-introduce high amounts of testosterone once the cancer has become refractory, which is supposed to kill these mutated cells.

Whether or not higher androgen levels mean faster growth is much less clear cut... the evidence does not seem to support it. Nor does it seem to support high T levels starting PC.

 

[anzel]

Found this great article by life extension on the subject. They call TRT related PC a myth.

Destroying the Myth about Testosterone Replacement and Prostate Cancer - Life Extension

 

[AverageMan]

Estrogen is the devil! ..or is it??

Estrogen in men is responsible for the production of good cholesterol (HDL). This is why too much AI will cause an unsafe drop in HDL and the presence of test will cause LDL to rise. I see lots of guys posting they like to keep their estrogen in the teens. I'd like to see their cholesterol profile.

What to die of, prostate cancer or heart attack?

Becomes a very fine balancing act...

Side note - I'd love to have a conversation with Dr. Jeffery Life on this topic. He's a self made guinea pig when it comes to HRT.

 

[anzel]

Estrogen is the devil! ..or is it??

Estrogen in men is responsible for the production of good cholesterol (HDL). This is why too much AI will cause an unsafe drop in HDL and the presence of test will cause LDL to rise. I see lots of guys posting they like to keep their estrogen in the teens. I'd like to see their cholesterol profile.

What to die of, prostate cancer or heart attack?

Becomes a very fine balancing act...

Side note - I'd love to have a conversation with Dr. Jeffery Life on this topic. He's a self made guinea pig when it comes to HRT.

And then you get in the problem when going from TRT to a blast and having to raise or lower your AI.... if you throw it off there goes your cholestrol levels...

Good point you brought up!

 

[halfwit]

I asked the same question and HW gave me the 411 as stated above. What now baffles me is that estrogene is carcinogenic but test isnt. But E is the main sex hormone in women . Its a raw deal for the ladies! But yes when a women gets cancer they are put on AI to stop the growth.

Question; when men get prostate cancer do they ever give them and AI??

Also I want to play devils advocate here.... HW just because studies and research show zero correlation doesnt mean its not possible. Its just that the right study hasnt been done yet.

Here's the problem, the vast majority of us on this board WILL develop prostate cancer. It's a bona-fide fact that nearly all men develop the cancer by the time they're 80. If I wasn't on my phone, I'd dig up the study done by the VA of all places - but the numbers are very real. The reason why we men don't see a bazillion ads out there or infomercials regarding this is that prostate cancer kills (usually) quite slowly. So, if you're over 80, and find out you have just developed prostate cancer - are you going to rush out to get treatment that will likely kill you faster than the cancer?

I know I won't. I'll just enjoy the fact that I beat the game, and lived that long. Maybe I'm kind of nonchalant about the whole deal, but after seeing my step father develop it, and learn from him (he does speeches about it, and the vets that acquired it in Vietnam) - I can say there are worse ways to go.

Estrogen is the devil! ..or is it??

Estrogen in men is responsible for the production of good cholesterol (HDL). This is why too much AI will cause an unsafe drop in HDL and the presence of test will cause LDL to rise. I see lots of guys posting they like to keep their estrogen in the teens. I'd like to see their cholesterol profile.

What to die of, prostate cancer or heart attack?

Becomes a very fine balancing act...

Side note - I'd love to have a conversation with Dr. Jeffery Life on this topic. He's a self made guinea pig when it comes to HRT.

The impact on cholesterol and other lipids is an increase in risk of under 5%. In fact, there is a recent study out of Japan indicating that HIGHER lipid counts may actually EXTEND your life more than a healthy blood pressure when it comes to cardiovascular events.

I know, I'm making some pretty bold claims without my usual backing of studies - maybe when I get home, I'll post them.

 

[anzel]

Here's the problem, the vast majority of us on this board WILL develop prostate cancer. It's a bona-fide fact that nearly all men develop the cancer by the time they're 80. If I wasn't on my phone, I'd dig up the study done by the VA of all places - but the numbers are very real. The reason why we men don't see a bazillion ads out there or infomercials regarding this is that prostate cancer kills (usually) quite slowly. So, if you're over 80, and find out you have just developed prostate cancer - are you going to rush out to get treatment that will likely kill you faster than the cancer?

I know I won't. I'll just enjoy the fact that I beat the game, and lived that long. Maybe I'm kind of nonchalant about the whole deal, but after seeing my step father develop it, and learn from him (he does speeches about it, and the vets that acquired it in Vietnam) - I can say there are worse ways to go.



The impact on cholesterol and other lipids is an increase in risk of under 5%. In fact, there is a recent study out of Japan indicating that HIGHER lipid counts may actually EXTEND your life more than a healthy blood pressure when it comes to cardiovascular events.

I know, I'm making some pretty bold claims without my usual backing of studies - maybe when I get home, I'll post them.

HW, yes I have been seeing alot of info about HDL,LDL,and Triglyceride ratio being the main concern. Your LDL can be high as long as the HDL is higher and Tris are low. Its the HDL that protects and repairs.
I am mostly interested in this subject as it appears our medical world went insane with this whole cholestrol thing. Telling everyone fat is bad but carbs are not and the simple fact that cholestrol is a much needed item to have a normal healthy life.

As far as AI, my cholestrol levels never changed so much until I started using one. I went from having low numbers and a good ratio to a not so great ratio.

Stress tests, and nuclear exam have shown all healthy so far so I continue to try to augment my cholestrol naturally, I really have no desire to be placed on statins....

 

[halfwit]

HW, yes I have been seeing alot of info about HDL,LDL,and Triglyceride ratio being the main concern. Your LDL can be high as long as the HDL is higher and Tris are low. Its the HDL that protects and repairs.
I am mostly interested in this subject as it appears our medical world went insane with this whole cholestrol thing. Telling everyone fat is bad but carbs are not and the simple fact that cholestrol is a much needed item to have a normal healthy life.

As far as AI, my cholestrol levels never changed so much until I started using one. I went from having low numbers and a good ratio to a not so great ratio.

Stress tests, and nuclear exam have shown all healthy so far so I continue to try to augment my cholestrol naturally, I really have no desire to be placed on statins....

Statins will kill you before heart disease. I really REALLY pissed my doctor off by bringing in a Harvard study showing that NIACIN can reduce triglycerides just as effectively as statins. Adex should have a minimal impact on lipids, while exemestane should actually improve them slightly. It's letrozole (I just switched back to adex) that has been shown to be rough on blood fats. I normally wouldn't even bother, but I'm personally trying to educate two doctors that not only are statins unnecessary for the reduction of LDL and triglycerides - but I can prove it.

Oh, Oats are fantastic for helping with LDL and V-LDL btw.

 

[anzel]

Yeah niacin works but I think it was a study from Germany (they are not big on statins over there I guess) that showed you had to take 100omg a day. Thats alot but doable. It makes you hot as shit tho! I noticed when I took it 100mg made me just as hot as 300mg so you can probably take the 1000mg spread out over 3 doses a day...

Oats and fiber supplements do work! Humans dont eat nearly the amount of fiber our ancestors did. Primitive man at 100g a day!

 

[halfwit]

Yeah niacin works but I think it was a study from Germany (they are not big on statins over there I guess) that showed you had to take 100omg a day. Thats alot but doable. It makes you hot as shit tho! I noticed when I took it 100mg made me just as hot as 300mg so you can probably take the 1000mg spread out over 3 doses a day...

Oats and fiber supplements do work! Humans dont eat nearly the amount of fiber our ancestors did. Primitive man at 100g a day!

I'm taking 800mg of niacin and pretty comfortable. I do sweat a bit more when I hit the gym, but that could be from a number of sources. I do take aspirin, so perhaps that's why I have zero issues. Then again, I don't get a niacin flush from preworkouts either.

Here's that Harvard paper: Help for your cholesterol when the statins won?t do - Harvard Health

 

[Megatron28]

You have to build up tolerance to Niacin to avoid the flushing. Don't start at high doses. It can be very painful.

 

[maurij1]

I've had bad cholesterol for years, just outside the limits on everything but triglycerides which were 500 at one time. Through healthy eating I've brought the triglycerides down to 200 and lower before my cycle. I knew that cycling could raise everything up so I got regular blood work...everything went down on cycle, my cholesterol had never looked better?? When I go off cycle it creeps back up to the high side again...can someone explain this??