about 1st time cycles

[ezred]

That is true. It will help you gain and diet will determine most. But to be honest I don't get much bloat even when not eating clean. Test is amazing at how it can add muscle but your diet and training are a huge part of it. You can cut fat and maintain or even add muscle you just need to approach it right. Most people think test will make you big and bulky because most like to bulk as much as possible, including water weight, then diet down later while maintaining the newly added muscle mass. Hopefully anyway.

yeah i hear you, i didn't use an Aromatase inhibitor (AI) on cycle. i used prami when i put the npp in. i had adex, aromasin and letro on hand in case i started feeling sensitivities in the nipular region, or missed those altogether and just went straight to full on lumps.

i didn't have issues with bloating. i ate clean at first, then dirtied it up some... then saw it wasn't putting much fat on me, and i continued to "dirty" it up a fair amount. i mean, my dirty isn't dumb garbage like a ton of ice cream and shit. my eating dirty isn't a fat mans binging, but it is throwing more sugars in (barbecue sauces, juices, etc.) than i normally would, and putting more fat into the diet, often in the form of cheese and peanut butter. i love anything that has "nut butter" in the name. lol. that and just eating out more and not really watching everything too closely. if i want the burger get the burger, if i want the cobb salad get the cobb salad, if i want the fuck'n triple decker hells kitchen damned if ya do "nacho mommy's nachos" from this local joint i frequent then yeah, i put the hurt on those too.

not all the time, but thrown into the week here and there ya know. cleaned it up the last few weeks and dropped a bf% without a loss in weight so that was nice. my jeans were getting a bit tight in the waist. the thighs are tighter now but that's not a fat issue.

 

[UserAt204]

Exactly EZ. Some of it's genetic. A guy who naturally gets fat very easy or is overweight is more likely IMO to bloat and gain fat as well as muscle. I eat a lot of peanut butter, even though I will look at it different now, which has a fair amount of sugar. While at work I tend to eat the food I brought and end up eating junk from any restaurant someone decides to go to. When trying to pack on the weight it doesn't hurt to eat "dirty" on occasion or even a meal a day or two but if you tend to gain fat easily I would watch it more. And I personally use Aromatase inhibitor (AI) for gyno, since I already have the shit, but never needed it for bloat. It helps me with the slight bacne I get on cycle but other than that I wouldn't use it.

 

[Deerawk]

Just out of curiosity than...
You could use a milder steroid with a lower amount of test for say balance to run a cycle with less side effects?

 

[ezred]

Just out of curiosity than...
You could use a milder steroid with a lower amount of test for say balance to run a cycle with less side effects?

yeah, if you wanted to.

but you'd want to run that low amount of test by itself first so you know how your body reacts to it. that way when you add in the milder steroid later you'll understand more of what's going on. you'll also be more in a position to make tweaks if you feel they are necessary. like if you decide to do more test. or whatever.

keep in mind, i did not take my own advice on my first cycle, which i'm just finishing. i ran test/primo. but yeah. doesn't mean it isn't good advice lol.

 

[Deerawk]

So if you were pursing a milder(more side-effect friendly) cycle the best advice would be a lower dose of test...say 250-300mg a week or something and upping it if you start feeling froggy? Run with HcG for the nuts and berries, an Aromatase inhibitor (AI) to prevent gyno and a SERM for PCT.

 

[StumpMT]

Yeah, you could do that but from my research (and a lot of other experienced guys on this forum would agree......I hope ) is that 250-300mg of test/wk is too small of an amount. Plus let's say you did start with 250-300mg/wk of Test-E for a 12 week cycle. You would need to wait until at least week 4 before you started seeing any results and let's say that you don't see any and you decide to up the dosage. It would then take a couple more weeks on top of that to see results of the increase (cause it takes time with long esters to build up in your system). Now you're looking at not seeing any results until week 6 or 7.

I could be completely wrong but that's how I feel it would work (more experienced users.....please correct me if I'm wrong).

The concensus seems to be that 500mg/wk is a pretty standard starting dosage for Test. Although everyone is different.

 

[ezred]

i agree and disagree

300mg provides a pretty significant increase, and good steady gains if one is eating and training well.

i think it would then depend on a person's goals.


of course, these are just opinions of a retarded newbie

 

[StumpMT]

Haha as are mine EZ

 

[bowzar]

ezred always has great posts and info and makes alot of sense to me.
what do u rekon would have worse pimple side effects . enthan or prop?

 

[hawkflyer08]

I noticed some guys jump starting their first cycle with dbol. Is this really that bad for a beginner taking Test E? If you take it for the first four weeks of the cycle would the risk be worth the reward?

 

[ezred]

ezred always has great posts and info and makes alot of sense to me.
what do u rekon would have worse pimple side effects . enthan or prop?

i dunno man. i did both this cycle. enan for 10 weeks, prop for 8. thereabouts anyway, i might be off a week or so on each.

my bacne got a bit worse on prop for a about 2 weeks. shoulders got some acne that wasn't there before. faded though. probably just the fluctuating blood levels as i transitioned from enan to prop. but i also incorporated npp at a low dose at the same point, so that could have been a factor. but the fact that it chilled out after 2 weeks and went away pretty much completely (could wear cut-offs again and my jersey without a long sleeve under armor shirt underneath without people noticing anything) within about a week. so i deduced it was the prop. again, we'll just have to see.

if you stick to one dose, pin at an appropriate interval for that particular ester, then i really don't see why there would be much of a difference. i am going to run prop next cycle if/when i run again. i'll see how it goes starting from scratch with that. if i HAD to say one or the other i would think enanthate because of slower, steadier release.... but then again peak levels should go a bit higher with enanthate during the peak of your cycle, so that brings up another side to it.

i'd just say choose one and try it. try the other one next time maybe, or maybe try a transition next time at the end of the cycle, etc.

everyone is different. some people don't get acne at all. i actually have none essentially none right now. i had a TINY bit for the first 10 weeks of my cycle (just a bit on my upper back/shoulder area wasn't noticeable wearing a wife beater. and really just a couple of red spots not a high concentration in one small area or anything.

like i said it got worse suddenly when i transitioned to prop, then faded, and faded to LESS than before.

so go figure. lol.

again, a totally worthless post!

 

[bowzar]

rofl well not really i did 3 weeks of prop and got fk loads of acne... n theyre only just starting to go away after being off it for 1month and ive been takin shit 2 red off it also... duno if its even been working tho..

but enthante will be to late to stop the sides once u start cus its slow releasing lol

 

[Deerawk]

I know Enanthate is recommended for first timers because you only need to pin twice a week, but on the other hand Propionate can be discontinued much quicker, the effects take place much faster and I read that side effect wise it is considered the mildest of all the test esters? Although the most painful to pin? I think 300mg/week sounds like a wise choice to get your feet wet.