Anything OTC I can take to get rid of gyno??

[Scarz]

below is study to prove the efficacy of nolvadex:

ARTICLES:

Lawrence SE, Faught KA, Vethamuthu J, Lawson ML.

Department of Pediatrics, University of Ottawa, Ontario, Canada. slawrence@cheo.on.ca

OBJECTIVES: To assess the efficacy of the anti-estrogens tamoxifen and raloxifen in the medical management of persistent pubertal gynecomastia. STUDY DESIGN: Retrospective chart review of 38 consecutive patients with persistent pubertal gynecomastia who presented to a pediatric endocrinology clinic. Patients received reassurance alone or a 3- to 9-month course of an estrogen receptor modifier (tamoxifen or raloxifene). RESULTS: Mean (SD) age of treated subjects was 14.6 (1.5) years with gynecomastia duration of 28.3 (16.4) months. Mean reduction in breast nodule diameter was 2.1 cm (95% CI 1.7, 2.7, P <.0001) after treatment with tamoxifen and 2.5 cm (95% CI 1.7, 3.3, P <.0001) with raloxifene. Some improvement was seen in 86% of patients receiving tamoxifen and in 91% receiving raloxifene, but a greater proportion had a significant decrease (>50%) with raloxifene (86%) than tamoxifen (41%). No side effects were seen in any patients. CONCLUSION: Inhibition of estrogen receptor action in the breast appears to be safe and effective in reducing persistent pubertal gynecomastia, with a better response to raloxifene than to tamoxifen. Further study is required to determine that this is truly a treatment effect.

PMID: 15238910 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]------------------------------------------- Breast. 2004 Feb;13(1):61-5. Related Articles, Links

Khan HN, Rampaul R, Blamey RW.

Professorial Unit of Surgery, Department of Surgery, Nottingham City Hospital, Nottingham NG5 1PB, UK. hamimi@dsl.pipex.com

AIMS: We aimed to confirm suggestions that tamoxifen therapy alone may resolve physiological gynaecomastia. METHODS: A prospective audit of the outcome of tamoxifen routinely given to men with physiological gynaecomastia was carried out at Nottingham. Men referred with gynaecomastia had clinical signs recorded, e.g., type (diffuse 'fatty' or retro-areolar 'lump'), size and possible aetiology. They were offered oral tamoxifen 20mg once daily for 6-12 weeks. On follow-up patients were assessed for complete resolution (CR), partial resolution where patient is satisfied with outcome (PR) or no resolution (NR). Success was either CR or PR. RESULTS: Thirty-six men accepted tamoxifen for physiological gynaecomastia. Median age was 31 (range 18-64). Tenderness was present in 25 (71%) cases. Sixteen men (45%) had 'fatty' gynaecomastia and 20 had 'lump' gynaecomastia. Tamoxifen resolved the mass in 30 patients (83.3%; CR=22, PR=8) and tenderness in 21 cases (84%; CR=0, PR=0). Lump gynaecomastia was more responsive to tamoxifen than the fatty type (100% vs. 62.5%; P=0.0041). CONCLUSIONS: Oral tamoxifen is an effective treatment for physiological gynaecomastia, especially for the lump type.

Publication Types:

Clinical Trial

 

[Scarz]

Further to that:


How do I know if I have gyno?

If you have developed gyno you will have a lump behind your nipple. It will be fairly hard, and it will be tender to touch.

Use this to differentiate between FAT and ACTUAL gyno. if u just find fat, it is NOT gyno, if u find a lump, even if it is small, something like a ball, may be kinda soft sometimes if it is newly developped, then you have gyno.

OMFG I HAS GYNO WAT 2 DU?

Gynecomastia in babies and teens normally does not require treatment and will usually resolve on its own. If caused by medicine or disease, stopping the medicine or treating the disease will often cure the gynecomastia. If caused by a lack of testosterone and increase in estrogen, hormonal treatment may be prescribed.
Okay .. Say you have a gyno which aint gonna go away. depending on how big is your gyno if it is really big, like real breasts ( i doubt this would normally happen, but happens sometimes ) then the only way to get rid of it is gyno surgery. the surgery costs around 2000~3000$. if it is a small lump, it usually goes away in time.

Lets say you are a stupid teenager who use steroids ( i dont think you are stupid if u educate urself, but most of this section does. )

Prevention is always better! Not preventing these problems would be like not wearing a condom, and then getting AIDS, and treating it! Its always best to prevent problems before they occur! (Line by WarMachine)

How to prevent.

SERM : Selective estrogen receptor modulator. These drugs work by binding to the estrogen receptors and flooding them in a sense, making it difficult (but not impossible by any means) for estrogen to bind to the receptors and thus prevent the onset of estrogen related side effects.
Most common forms: Tamoxifen (Nolvadex), Clomiphene (Clomid)

AI : Aromatise Inhibitor. These drugs work by inhibiting the aromatization of estrogen. This means that in effect AI?s prevent androgens from converting to estrogen, again, making it difficult (but not impossible) for estrogen to reach receptor sites.
Most common forms: Anastrozole (l-dex, a-dex), Exemestane (aromasin), Femera (letrozole).


SERMs Would prevent Estrogen related side effects, Like GYNO. so usage of a SERM is really important, i dont recommend using an Aromatase inhibitor (AI), because they completely remove estorgen out of your system( like up to 90%). Estorgen is not that bad, Estrogen helps with glycogen storage in muscle, it increase HDL, Have a good effect on Central Nervous system, and anabolic to an instant, also increase GH output, and tenders joints. if you use Aromatase inhibitor (AI), you will have itchy joints, lose ur libdo, you may suffer from heart disease, and so.

Under any condition, you shouldnt use steroids if your growth plates are still not fused.. if you do, then you really are stupid, growth plates are like first sign that your body finished growing, and you are stunting your growth for couple of lbs of muscle, cauze i bet if you use them before they are stunted, then you didnt educate yourself enough, and you wont get the best results out of the cycle.


Some People like to use SERMS like nolvadex just like supplements to encounter estrogen related side effects, only downside is the Estrogen rebound after you stop using it.


izzyliscious bb dot com

 

[Scarz]

btw, starting with 40mg or 20mg of nolva for gyno should be continued until gyno has subsided. THEN once gyno appears to be gone DO NOT STOP taking ure treatment. Continue but at 10mg ed for about 2 weeks.

 

[jjtattoofreak]

You're assigning clomid and nolva to an overly restrictive category. Both are not only for post cycle therapy (pct). They're selective anti-estrogens and can definitely be used to treat gyno (particularly nolva and raloxifene).

For example,
The role of tamoxifen in the management of gynaeco... [Breast. 2006] - PubMed result
Beneficial effects of raloxifene and tamoxifen in ... [J Pediatr. 2004] - PubMed result
Tamoxifen treatment for pubertal gynecomastia. [Int J Adolesc Med Health. 2003 Oct-Dec] - PubMed result

True , but he never really had any type of post cycle therapy (pct), Plus I was not sure if he was on a cycle now or not.... Either way he is off cycle and needs post cycle therapy (pct). So clomid or Nolva would work better for him now. If you notice the rest of the thread , I stated I am sure some one with more knowledge will chime in, expressing that I was not 100%... Thank you though.

 

[Biggin]

This is some good shit!

 

[Dreaded Pirate Roberts]

Wow this is the first thread in the last5 minutes that actually has something worth reading

 

[Biggin]

Biggin agrees with DPR!!

 

[Conciliator]

why would you want to take NOLVA for the rest of your cycle?

Why would you take nolva throughout a cycle? To prevent gyno. The same reason you might take an Aromatase inhibitor (AI) throughout a cycle.

also who cares if your study says patients were treated with nolva only for gyno? does this mean i should make the same mistake they did?

Who cares? People who are interested in treating gyno. When endocrinologists think tamoxifen is a good enough treatment for gyno that they'd actually conduct a study on it, they might be right, especially when the studies find that its effective.

once again conciliator you have put your interests of proving a point above the best interests of the OP-leading them to believe that it is a wise choice to use only NOLVA for gyno symptoms.

I am trying to prove a point. And the point is that it is a wise choice to use a SERM (like nolva or raloxifene) for gyno symptoms. Why? Because they clearly treat gyno.

it does not take a rocket scientist or a study to figure out that lowering estrogen-instead of blocking it is a better choice in a gyno situation.

You're making the claim without supporting it. It's not clear that reducing estrogen levels is a better choice than selectively reducing estrogen signaling in. Both reduce estrogenic action in breast tissue.

i mean it was the elevated levels of estrogen that caused the gyno in the first place correct?

You could argue that gyno is caused by elevated receptor binding just as much as you can argue it's "elevated levels."

and what about NOLVA hindering your gains more than the AI? How come you did not address this issue?

It's not clear that nolva hinders gains any more (or less) than an Aromatase inhibitor (AI), that's why. On the one hand, nolva has estrogenic action in the liver. That's good for blood lipids, but can reduce GH and IGF-1 levels. Nolva can also increase SHBG.

On the other hand, an Aromatase inhibitor (AI) will lower estrogen levels generally, which reduces the beneficial effects of estrogen. This can have a negative effect on blood lipids, bone, muscle glucose utilization (via glucose 6-phosphate dehydrogenase), activity at the androgen receptor, and energy levels (excessive estrogen suppression can cause terrible lethargy).

Overall, there's no evidence that one has a better (or worse) net effect on muscle growth. Both have their drawbacks. Many people prefer SERMs because you can selectively block estrogen in the breast (or HPTA) while still getting the benefits of estrogen elsewhere.

using NOLVA only for gyno simply blocks the symptoms of gyno-instead of solving the issue that caused the gyno to begin with.

This is misleading. Nolva doesn't just "block the symptoms" of gyno. It actually treats gyno by reducing estrogenic signaling. Lowering the concentration of estrogen has the same effect, just though a different mechanism of action.

 

[THE-DET-OAK]

Further to that:
i dont recommend using an Aromatase inhibitor (AI), because they completely remove estorgen out of your system( like up to 90%).

this is only true for letro

Adex 40%
Aromasin 65%
Letro-up to 99%

 

[THE-DET-OAK]

Further to that:


if you use Aromatase inhibitor (AI), you will have itchy joints, lose ur libdo, you may suffer from heart disease, and so.

NOVLA has a laundry list of side effects-including cancer.

 

[THE-DET-OAK]

Further to that: Have a good effect on Central Nervous system, and anabolic to an instant, also increase GH output

only downside is the Estrogen rebound after you stop using it.


izzyliscious bb dot com

this is exactly why it would be much more practical to run an Aromatase inhibitor (AI) along side the NOLVA-drop the NOLVA when symptoms subside and carry on with either Adex or Aromasin

 

[THE-DET-OAK]

as far as estrogen increasing the GH output-nolva inhibits Igf-1 and GH-so it would only make sense to me to use an Aromatase inhibitor (AI) to control estrogen instead of the NOLVA.

 

[THE-DET-OAK]

i have attached a study-it is much more noteworthy than the previous studies posted in this thread simply because these patients got the gyno from TRT.

Case Report
Treatment of testosterone-induced gynecomastia with the
aromatase inhibitor, anastrozole

 

[THE-DET-OAK]

Conciliator

 

[Scarz]

why would you want to take NOLVA for the rest of your cycle? especially when it will inhibit your gains more than the AI?

also who cares if your study says patients were treated with nolva only for gyno? does this mean i should make the same mistake they did?

once again conciliator you have put your interests of proving a point above the best interests of the OP-leading them to believe that it is a wise choice to use only NOLVA for gyno symptoms.

it does not take a rocket scientist or a study to figure out that lowering estrogen-instead of blocking it is a better choice in a gyno situation. i mean it was the elevated levels of estrogen that caused the gyno in the first place correct?

and what about NOLVA hindering your gains more than the AI? How come you did not address this issue?

using NOLVA only for gyno simply blocks the symptoms of gyno-instead of solving the issue that caused the gyno to begin with.

hy newbs glad to see ure doing ure homework and read thoroughly through that i study i posted. but dont misconstrue the reason for that post. it was posted simply for u to see that nolva always has been, still does, and will continue to do so - successfully treat gyno. in no way shape or form in that study does it indicate to leave ai's alone and pick up on nolva for gyno symptoms. it was proof of efficacy of nolvadex.

y did i post that when everyone knows it anyway? because i highlighted in red in ure quote above u ommiting nolvadex for the treatment of gyno. that's why i posted it. it was not a competition betwene nolva and ai.

personally, if i had gyno (thank god i never had gyno cuz i do my homework!) i would opt for nolva.

ure study directing to a study that proves the efficacy of anastrozole is appreciated, and im going to add it to my collection. but ofcourse an Aromatase inhibitor (AI) will treat gyno, who denied it?

 

[Scarz]

i'd rep u but it i have share the love of reps with others b4 i rep u again

 

[THE-DET-OAK]

just arguing with conciliator-it makes my day-what started this was me saying that i believe that using nolva only for gyno-your shortchanging yourself cause i think both is a much better way.

PS i always appreciate your posts scarz-me and you are boys-and im def glad you joined the debate-cause in the end thats all it is-the only way to know the best way is to try it yourself.

i just have a problem with conciliator because he tends to skew the information-in order to look like he won the argument-i really dont care either way-i have been wrong many times-i just think he should open his mind a lil instead of forcing his opinion down the throats of other members-he seems to think if he finds one study-then thats the concrete way to approach the situation-when sometimes on a given topic-there are a hundred studies pointing both ways. i have rarely ever seen you be wrong scarz-and even those times i wouldn't have known it unless you admitted it yourself-and thats the difference between you and him-even if he knows he's wrong-he will still try to make his argument. much love brotha-always

 

[Scarz]

i hear u bro, im glad we're on the same page. i have a bad habbit of not reading entire threads before posting

cheers newbs

as far as using nolva during cycle goes, it's only advisable if ure really prone to gyno already. otherwise an Aromatase inhibitor (AI) is the best choice.

on a side note, nobody knows what the OP's bf% is. if the OP is like 19% bf and above, then all I have to say is book an appointment for surgically removing the gyno now. the lower ure bf% the lesser chances of getting gyno and by chance u do get the symtoms, with a lower bf% it's not difficult to get rid of the gyno at all. if and when u get gyno at such a high bf%...seriously, good luck treating it.

u ever see the fat dudes with boobs? um yeh, that's gyno, aka breasts

 

[Conciliator]

NOVLA has a laundry list of side effects-including cancer.

Nolva has been shown to increase the risk of cancer in the endometrium of women. The endometrium is 1) a tissue where nolva acts as an estrogen and 2) a tissue that's highly sensitive to estrogen. Estrogen is a known carcinogen, so this isn't too surprising.

However, you don't have a uterus to worry about, do you? Then posting that nolva can cause cancer is pretty irrelevant.

as far as estrogen increasing the GH output-nolva inhibits Igf-1 and GH-so it would only make sense to me to use an Aromatase inhibitor (AI) to control estrogen instead of the NOLVA.

Did you even read my post here? See the section starting with "It's not clear that nolva hinders gains any more (or less) than an AI..."

 

[Conciliator]

i just have a problem with conciliator because he tends to skew the information

I post references and quotes more than anyone. I'm not skewing the information, I'm the one presenting it. If the information doesn't coincide with your preconceived notions, its not me skewing things, it's you believing things that the evidence fails to support.

in order to look like he won the argument

If it looks like I won an argument, maybe it's not sophistry, but reality.

-i really dont care either way-i have been wrong many times-

Yes, you definitely have.

i just think he should open his mind a lil instead of forcing his opinion down the throats of other members-he seems to think if he finds one study-then thats the concrete way to approach the situation-when sometimes on a given topic-there are a hundred studies pointing both ways.

It's the ultimate in jackassery to discount all research with a facile flick of the wrist because there are "a hundred studies pointing both ways." Sorry, but there most certainly are not. When I post several studies corroborating my position, it's intellectual sloth on your part to dismiss them with the delusion that you could easily find a hundred pointing the other way. Do yourself a favor. Try it. Go find us several studies showing that tamoxifen failed to improve gynecomastia. And when you can't, reflect on what that means and how it undermines what you posted above.

and thats the difference between you and him-even if he knows he's wrong-he will still try to make his argument.

I think you're talking about yourself. I make my arguments and usually always back them up with references and quotes. I'm not going to "admit" the evidence is wrong. But that's what you do. You make your argument and dogmatically cling to it despite the evidence.