Anything OTC I can take to get rid of gyno??

[THE-DET-OAK]

the bottom line conciliator-and after this im done arguing with you over shit that didnt even start this debate-STOP trying to change the subject.

the bottomline is this

you were trying to call out JMC saying his recommendation was not useful.

you said using only NOLVA for PCT is sufficent.

I said thats bullshit-you need an Aromatase inhibitor (AI) as well. for the main reason that NOLVA has a rebound.

I am correct, as i believe i have proved. I was not trying to say what will work and what will not work-i was stating the the use of Aromatase inhibitor (AI) is just as important-if not more than the use of NOLVA, and I am right-you trying to argue that just makes you look pathetic and irrational.

I dont have to look at a study for this-i have seen it first hand. My roomate use to dawg my Aromasin use until he stopped his drol-and his tits were hurting-and he had small lumps under the breast. he took the aromasin @ 12.5mg ED for a week then dropped it and continued his cycle. If he would have used NOLVA who knows if it would have rebounded or not. but Nolva is known for estro rebound.

and no i didnt read your study-dont need to-i know what an Aromatase inhibitor (AI) does and that there is limited info on them especially aromasin. like i stated earlier they work-with no rebound usually.

 

[THE-DET-OAK]

and i never once said tamoxifen did not cure gyno-you are so full of shit.

 

[jjtattoofreak]

and i never once said tamoxifen did not cure gyno-you are so full of shit.

lmfao

 

[THE-DET-OAK]

you are right conciliator-but your leaving out a very important part to gyno treatment-which is the AI-which slows the conversion of testosterone to estrogen-in turn lowering the amount of estrogen in your body-which would be the most important part of solving a gyno issue for the long-term.

these newbies need to know if you use nolva only for gyno-there is a possibility that once you stop the nolva-the gyno could come back much quicker and stronger.

 

[jjtattoofreak]

round an round here we go.... lol

 

[Conciliator]

round an round here we go.... lol

There's no getting through to newbie23, lol. He's still arguing that an Aromatase inhibitor (AI) is necessary during post cycle therapy (pct) because otherwise you'll have "estrogen rebound." On Meso, newbie said the following to me "also you do realize that when your done with cyle your body crashes and estro hits the ceiling trying to compensate right? i mean that is why peple starting taking serms after cycle-to control estro." As you can see, he has no clue what's going on. This is what I said to him (and since he has a hard time learning new concepts, I'll say it again):

Post cycle, testosterone levels crash. In males, estrogen is largely derived from testosterone. When test levels crash, estrogen levels crash. When test levels go up, estrogen levels go up (the reason guys take anti-estrogens when test levels increase on a test cycle). Estrogen levels are relatively LOW during post cycle therapy (pct). However, even low levels of estrogen produce negative feedback at the HPTA, which is why you take SERM. Estrogen is low, but you still want to block it to minimize HPTA antagonism.

Since logical explanations don't get through to you a lot of the time, let me quote William Llewellen from Anabolics 2009:

Plus, there is not an elevated level of estrogen for anti-estrogens to block during this [post cycle] window, as testosterone (now suppressed) is a major substrate used for the synthesis of estrogens in men. Serum estrogen levels are actually lower here [during post cycle therapy (pct)], not higher. Any estrogen rebound that occurs post-cycle, likewise, happens with a rebound in testosterone levels, not prior to it...

And after all that, he ends saying "thats bullshit-you need an Aromatase inhibitor (AI) as well. for the main reason that NOLVA has a rebound. I am correct, as i believe i have proved." Oh yeah, you're great at proving things, lol.

 

[jjtattoofreak]

There's no getting through to newbie23, lol. He's still arguing that an Aromatase inhibitor (AI) is necessary during post cycle therapy (pct) because otherwise you'll have "estrogen rebound." On Meso, newbie said the following to me "also you do realize that when your done with cyle your body crashes and estro hits the ceiling trying to compensate right? i mean that is why peple starting taking serms after cycle-to control estro." As you can see, he has no clue what's going on. This is what I said to him (and since he has a hard time learning new concepts, I'll say it again):

Post cycle, testosterone levels crash. In males, estrogen is largely derived from testosterone. When test levels crash, estrogen levels crash. When test levels go up, estrogen levels go up (the reason guys take anti-estrogens when test levels increase on a test cycle). Estrogen levels are relatively LOW during post cycle therapy (pct). However, even low levels of estrogen produce negative feedback at the HPTA, which is why you take SERM. Estrogen is low, but you still want to block it to minimize HPTA antagonism.

Since logical explanations don't get through to you a lot of the time, let me quote William Llewellen from Anabolics 2009:


And after all that, he ends saying "thats bullshit-you need an Aromatase inhibitor (AI) as well. for the main reason that NOLVA has a rebound. I am correct, as i believe i have proved." Oh yeah, you're great at proving things, lol.

Newbs is good ppl, and you got ass loads of info and shit. What he was stating was he likes to run an Aromatase inhibitor (AI) just in case and the a post cycle therapy (pct) of nolv or clomid. Not everyone does shit the same but I do believe Newbs is on top of his game fo sho.... He even explained the possibility of rebound without an Aromatase inhibitor (AI) and only a SERM... Either way you both got ur points but for fucks sake this shit could go on for ever .... ya know what I am saying ...... round and round......

 

[THE-DET-OAK]

He's still arguing that an Aromatase inhibitor (AI) is necessary during post cycle therapy (pct) .

this says it all-where at in this thread-or any thread did i ever say you need an Aromatase inhibitor (AI) during post cycle therapy (pct)?

please quote it

 

[THE-DET-OAK]

this says it all-where at in this thread-or any thread did i ever say you need an Aromatase inhibitor (AI) during PCT?

please quote it

 

[THE-DET-OAK]

 

[Conciliator]

this says it all-where at in this thread-or any thread did i ever say you need an Aromatase inhibitor (AI) during post cycle therapy (pct)?

please quote it

Why do I feel like I'm arguing with a retard?

you said using only NOLVA for post cycle therapy (pct) is sufficent. I said thats bullshit-you need an AI as well.

 

[jjtattoofreak]

You did nt...... You said an Aromatase inhibitor (AI) during cycle and the serm post cycle therapy (pct) I do believe.........

 

[jjtattoofreak]

Why do I feel like I'm arguing with a retard?

Awwwwww fuck now were name calling.............
'


Newbs thanks for the NOVEL. lmfao its good shit though

 

[jjtattoofreak]

Why do I feel like I'm arguing with a retard?

^^^^^^^
or i just took it as during the cycle.... ?

 

[Biggin]

Why do I feel like I'm arguing with a retard?

Seems like U arguing with someone who knows their shit when it comes to PCT!!

 

[Conciliator]

3.) Avoid an abrupt discontinuance of all steroids at the same time because the body would enter an immediate catabolic phase. The cortisone receptors will be free and in combination with the low testosterone and androgen levels a considerable loss of strength and mass, and an increase of fat and water, and often gynecomastia will occur. Gynecomastia is possible because the suddenly low androgen level shifts the relationship in favor of the estrogens which suddenly become the domineering hormone. Especially eye-catching is also the extreme listlessness to training or sex and a generally weak state of mind of several athletes. If not forced because of medical reasons never discontinue steroids "cold turkey"

Don't you hate it when your hormones start acting all "domineering"? lol

But you've got to love an unreferenced and unnecessarily long cut-and-paste.

 

[THE-DET-OAK]

Why do I feel like I'm arguing with a retard?

that was typo douchebag-i meant to say GYNO-thats what this entire fucking thread is about-but keep doing what your doing-cause its all you got at the moment.

conciliator

 

[Scarz]

believe it or not both u dudes r making valid points and u can both go on forever citing studies and references and it will never stop.

concill i doubt newbs was portraying as if he typed all that in 5 minutes... i think it's a given that's its researched.

i put my money saying newbs is far from being a retard dude, he's even schooled me on quite a few occasions

lets drop the topic and focus on the guy wearing the mc hammer pants....

 

[Conciliator]

that was typo douchebag-i meant to say GYNO-thats what this entire fucking thread is about-but keep doing what your doing-cause its all you got at the moment.

No, it wasn't a typo. What you were talking about was this thread on post cycle therapy (pct), where I responded to JMC. You made the context very clear:

you were trying to call out JMC saying his recommendation was not useful.

you said using only NOLVA for post cycle therapy (pct) is sufficent.

I said thats bullshit-you need an Aromatase inhibitor (AI) as well. for the main reason that NOLVA has a rebound.

Nice to see you backpedal after getting called out, lol. This can't get any more retarded, can it?

 

[Biggin]

Biggin cosigns with Scarz.