Aromasin And PCT

[marabunta]

Hi all, pretty basic post here. I'm starting my first cycle of:
Test E- 500 MG per week x 12 weeks
AI- Aromasin 12.5mg ED entire cycle.
post cycle therapy (pct)
Clomid 50/50/50/50
Nolva 40/40/20/20

My question here revolves around whether aromasin should be taken throughout the duration of post cycle therapy (pct)? Also, if its generally agreed that this is a good idea, is nolva even necessary? Ive read that that adding Nolva to a standard post cycle therapy (pct) cycle with an Aromatase inhibitor (AI) (clomid/aromasin combo) does not increase the effectiveness of estro control therefore Nolva has no real advantage alongside an Aromatase inhibitor (AI) unless the person is experiencing gyno. Also, does Nolva reduce igf-1 and GH levels?
Any advice on the subject is appreciated

 

[kaname]

If you will be using Aromasin during post cycle therapy (pct) then correct Nolva would be a no. No aromasin doesn't need to be used throughout post cycle therapy (pct). There have been some good threads explaining why. I will try to look them up in a sec for you if I don't get lazy.

Ok here is the thread. Just read through the entirety of it so you get all view points as it is a mixed bag of goodies. Doc187 and Juced_Porkchop explains my side very well. Yes that's right mofo I said my side. (thread - see below):

http://www.steroidology.com/forum/anabolic-steroid-forum/647691-aromasin.html#post3289558


Lastly yes to your GH and IGF-1 question. Although it is my understanding that it is very little. I'm likely wrong as I don't really know much of anything about it.

 

[SirSwole]

You don't need clomid AND nolva together. I know a lot of guys use both but you really dont need to. Check out "My post cycle therapy (pct) protocol" by SWALE and/or "Nolva vs clomid" under the Anabolic Steroids and Bodybuilding Articles page for some solid info on post cycle therapy (pct). Aromatase inhibitor (AI) should strictly be used DURING cycle not post because of the risk of driving estro too low. You CAN use nolva throughout cycle and for post but use on cycle at a low dose of 20mg (ed or eod i believe is alright, but double check).

 

[Docd187]

As Kaname already pointed out, it's a mixed opinion. I personally am on Lord Kaname's side, would not take aromasin during post cycle therapy (pct). Its a pretty powerful Aromatase inhibitor (AI) which coupled with the fact that you're off cycle and no longer taking in testosterone exogenously, can seriously crash your estrogen levels. That's just as bad as having high estrogen IMO, girl boobies not withstanding. Another thing as a member on here Cashout pointed out, it is steroidal so it can hinder your recovery during post cycle therapy (pct). the point of PCT is coming off cycle to bring your bodies natural production back and taking a steroidal Aromatase inhibitor (AI) during PCT would be somewhat counter-productive. I would stick with nolva/clomid combo for PCT and keep aromasin for on cycle. I also would not follow sirswole's advice since nolva is a receptor blocker for estrogen, primarily in breast tissue. Taking nolva during cycle will do nothing for serum estrogen levels besides preventing boobies/gyno. You will still have high estrogen and sides associated with that can range from mild to severe. Also nolva and clomid do different things during PCT so again I wouldn't listen to sirswole and advise for the use of both. Swale is a knowledgable guy but he is stuck in a time we passed many years ago. Not only being narcissistic, he does not consider new technology or approaches or drugs. Yes many ppl have came off cycle successfully with only nolva but nolva does nothing to restart your HTPA. Would you want to take that risk? I value my dick way too much to consider it for my cycle.

 

[Protobuilder69]

^^^ good advice, listen to doc.
You dont need aromasin for post cycle therapy (pct), an Aromatase inhibitor (AI) should be ran through out the cycle not post cycle. Also clomid is more effective at restoring the hpta than nolva..
Also nolva doesnt actually reduce estrogen it blocks it, an A.I like aromasin and arimidex will lower estrogen significantly.

 

[AnaDad]

so in a nut shell you can't go wrong with nolva and clomid for your PCT at the end.

 

[stevejay]

I have tried PCT without aromasin and with it. I will never do another PCT without running aromasin.

 

[Jameson653]

Bringing your estrogen down during pct with 25mg of aromasin ed actually boosts testosterone through this thing called a negative feedback loop. Your body makes more testosterone so more of it can be aromatized to estrogen. Aromasin is the ONLY Aromatase inhibitor (AI) that should be run post cycle but you definitely should. I will provide some literature if i can find it

 

[kaname]

Bringing your estrogen down during post cycle therapy (pct) with 25mg of aromasin ed actually boosts testosterone through this thing called a negative feedback loop. Your body makes more testosterone so more of it can be aromatized to estrogen. Aromasin is the ONLY Aromatase inhibitor (AI) that should be run post cycle but you definitely should. I will provide some literature if i can find it

That's already known. Think your missing the point on why some are against it. And for the record the boost you're speaking of the % is fairly minor. Not to mention upping your dose from 12.5 EOD (standard starting dose) to 25 ED to purposely drop your E, well.....seriously?

 

[Jameson653]

My doctor prescribes all my stuff and that is his terminology. I follow it and it works for me.

This, of course, is where Aromasin comes in, at 20-25mgs/day.
Aromasin, at that dose, will raise your testosterone levels by about 60%, and also help out your free to bound testosterone ratio by lowering levels of Sex Hormone Binding Globulin (SHBG), by about 20% (12)***8230;SHBG is that nasty enzyme that binds to testosterone and renders it useless for building muscle. But what about using it along with Nolvadex for post cycle therapy (pct)? Aromasin is the only Aromatase inhibitor (AI) that can be run alongside Nolva for post cycle therapy (pct) without reducing its effectiveness.

 

[Jameson653]

Type II AIs are steroidal suicide inhibitors. Aromasin is a Type II. These compounds are so very important for post cycle therapy (pct). Aromasin is a must with clomid to keep estro down and help boost anabolism drastically while preventing Estrogen rebound upon cessation of AAS and post cycle therapy (pct). Aromasin works by the negative feedback loop. This means when the body senses low estrogen levels it tells the body that it needs to produce testosterone. Because the body thinks that if estrogen is low then Test must be low because the body converts test into estro via the aromatase enzyme. This is why during PCT you use more aromasin than what you would use while on cycle. When in PCT you estro is high because you are no longer introducing foreign hormones and the test that was high continues to be converted to estro. Also You want to get estro low at this point hence the high dose of Aromasin. This boosts test especially when used with clomid. Aromasin is not only good for PCT but I prefer to use it on cycle. This is because it is easier on your lipids than Letro or Adex. Aromasin boosts IGF1 which is beneficial on cycle and during post cycle therapy (pct). Aromasin is steroidal which means it actually is slightly androgenic meaning it could increase muscle hardness while keeping excess fluid retention down think of how proviron produces a hardening effect due to the androgen level. Aromasin can be used every other day or every 3 days on cycle with great results. Aromasin can free up more test in the body. All in all aromasin is a great compound that is a great addition to any aromatizing steroid cycle and also a must for PCT In my opinion. Just because you don't get gyno every cycle doesn't mean your estro isn't high. Your estrogen can be high and you may not know it. Better safe than sorry and who doesn't want to get the most out of their cycle while preventing sides?

 

[kaname]

My doctor prescribes all my stuff and that is his terminology. I follow it and it works for me.

This, of course, is where Aromasin comes in, at 20-25mgs/day.
Aromasin, at that dose, will raise your testosterone levels by about 60%, and also help out your free to bound testosterone ratio by lowering levels of Sex Hormone Binding Globulin (SHBG), by about 20% (12)***8230;SHBG is that nasty enzyme that binds to testosterone and renders it useless for building muscle. But what about using it along with Nolvadex for post cycle therapy (pct)? Aromasin is the only Aromatase inhibitor (AI) that can be run alongside Nolva for PCT without reducing its effectiveness.

Are you saying your doctor wrote this article? Found here? - Aromasin Profile

I'm lost right now...

 

[Jameson653]

oh no. my doctor recommended me the serm/AI combo that I currently run. everything i take (mostly) is prescription from him. He started me actually studying this stuff rather than just taking advice from the bs forums I used to belong to. Thats why i switched to here because it seems like the elders reference medical journals and studies as opposed to broscience.

 

[kaname]

oh no. my doctor recommended me the serm/AI combo that I currently run. everything i take (mostly) is prescription from him. He started me actually studying this stuff rather than just taking advice from the bs forums I used to belong to. Thats why i switched to here because it seems like the elders reference medical journals and studies as opposed to broscience.

Guess I read your sentence wrong, or your referencing the post above the original statement.

 

[kaname]

Anyway moving on. I always take most articles (including the one I linked) and the one you pasted from with a grain a salt. Reason being you always have members of a community - to include the science / medical community with opposing views and the research to back their view. If you haven't heard the phrase before (normally around election times) "you can always make the data reflect what you want it to."

If it was as simple as taking Aromasin at a higher dose to achieve a huge boost in test, then that would be the widely recommended post cycle therapy (pct) protocol. Just continue running Aromasin, and maybe pop some clomid..game over. But that's not the case. Besides the chance to drop your E too low, you also are still being counterproductive in terms of bringing back everything online and producing naturally.

I would be more interested in seeing articles that detail the time it took to get up and running naturally with a standard post cycle therapy (pct) vs running Aromasin / Clomid instead. Once all outside sources are stopped what numbers are shown and maintained. What happens to those numbers once you drop the Aromasin?

The article linked simply throws out arbitrary %'s. Just saying I would like to see someones actual numbers and the amount of weeks it took to achieve and what's maintained after.

 

[MattyIce]

Yes. Run asin thru post cycle therapy (pct). 12.5-25 mg eod. Will help test production..not just a neg feeback loop.

 

[AnaDad]

I am really getting confused. What is a safe PCT to take.
My cycle about to start:
250 cyp twice a week
50 mg a day Turinabol
HGH 5ius a day 6 on 1
My Pct was going to be Nolv and Clomid. Is this fine or should I change.

 

[DexterMorgan]

Type II AIs are steroidal suicide inhibitors. Aromasin is a Type II.

Aromasin is type 1. Taking it with nolva and clomid may get your estrogen level too low.

My Pct was going to be Nolv and Clomid. Is this fine or should I change.

I would stick to just nolva and clomid for PCT and use stane on my cycle.

 

[kaname]

I am really getting confused. What is a safe PCT to take.
My cycle about to start:
250 cyp twice a week
50 mg a day Turinabol
HGH 5ius a day 6 on 1
My Pct was going to be Nolv and Clomid. Is this fine or should I change.

You'll be fine...

 

[AnaDad]

Thanks for the help.....