beastdrol

[dylangemelli]

I will tell you this, there is a chance of shutdown on them all... helladrol has the least amount of shutdown of the three... the beast has NO estrogen conversion at all... the least of the three... havok and the beast will definitely bring on the most amount of sides... I am always going to recommend helladrol because i had such a killer run on it... 15 lbs. gained and a 1% decrease in body fat... I have never personally run epi (havok) but my only issue with epi is that some people just don't respond to it... now OF COURSE, you could say that about anything, but I've seen more people not respond to it than other things... I can promise you this, you will gain the most size on the beast BY FAR, over any of the other ones... There is a chance of sides on any of them but helladrol will definitely have the least amount... All three of them are good choices, but dependent upon your goals and how many cycles you've ran, that should determine what you select... personally, if this is your very first cycle, i would go with helladrol... if not, go with THE BEAST...

 

[chocolatemilk]

Havoc is 91-1200 is Androgenic/Anabolic Ratio.

Ok if you're going to use the AA ratios at least give them out right.

It is anabolic/androgenic ratio not the other way around for starters. So havoc is 1200:91

When you have a zero Androgenic ratio (0)..you might not grow so much.Anabolic ratio(0-1500)

Wrong

Beastdrol has a 400:20 ratio... very low androgenicity yet is one of the best mass builders out there.

Halodrol 0/100

With beastdrol and helladrol..you're going to need alot more stuff to counteract with the sides.

Wrong again. Don't copy and past random numbers off the internet.

Halodrol is 74:28. Lowest activity between Helladrol so it will give the least sides.

You're a funny guy ;-)

I would pay attention.This would be like a baseline of what a/a does.

With 0/100.... I know what it's going to do.

No you don't. Vidas numbers don't account for how strongly androgens bind to receptors. Look at masteron... it has a low androgenic profile yet is pretty damn androgenic because of it's ability to bind more tightly to prostate androgen receptors.

It is strongly recommended that one increase their workouts by twice as hard.Really hard.

That's like saying "Bring on the Cortisol!"

And that's not water weigh either.

I have no idea what you're saying here.

Beastdrol will give the least androgenic side effects because it has the lowest androgenic profile (20) and also a Q ratio of 20 meaning it binds to skeletal muscle androgen receptors 20x better than prostate androgen receptors. Epistane (havoc) has the highest androgenic profile so you get way more androgenic side effects from it. I have no idea why you think Epistane will give the least androgenic side effects.

 

[chocolatemilk]

Also Dbols AA ratio is 90-210:40-60

Havoc is 1200:90

In rats (Vida numbers) it seems Havoc is a far more potent androgen in terms of building muscle. Yet we all know Dbol shits on Havoc any day of the week.

That's why you can't live by these ratios... rats metabolize compounds way differently than we do. You can't say for certain what a steroid will be like in humans just because you have the AA ratio known for the steroid.

 

[dylangemelli]

Love it bro!

also dbols aa ratio is 90-210:40-60

havoc is 1200:90

in rats (vida numbers) it seems havoc is a far more potent androgen in terms of building muscle. Yet we all know dbol shits on havoc any day of the week.

That's why you can't live by these ratios... Rats metabolize compounds way differently than we do. You can't say for certain what a steroid will be like in humans just because you have the aa ratio known for the steroid.

 

[Duke30]

Ok if you're going to use the AA ratios at least give them out right.

It is anabolic/androgenic ratio not the other way around for starters. So havoc is 1200:91

What different does that make..you need to look at Androgenic ratio first.You added the : ..but I used the Slash/ and easier to read.Don't correct me.Be Cool.

Wrong Beastdrol has a 400:20 or 20/400 ratio... very low androgenic yet is one of the best mass builders out there.

It's a different class steriod..and the class is Superdrol clone and it's 20/400 and its the highest toxicity then an epi clone which is 2 numbers down.From 5 to 3 in toxicity.It also has the highest estrogenic and progestenic activity which is Bloat which you will LOSE after a cycle and depending on how you trained according to the Androgenic/anabolic ratio.Epi-havoc does not Give you Bloat at all.

Wrong again. Don't copy and past random numbers off the internet.

Halodrol is 74:28. Lowest activity between Helladrol so it will give the least sides.

Random ?? You think I'm playing ? No way..I'm serious about the ratio and sides.Halodrol Is IN the same class AS Halo..they are Halodrol clones.Helladrol is a Halo clone.The ratio IS 0/100...It means you have to increase your training volume TWICE as much..It IS REcommended THAT You DO Any HEAVY Training MIGHT NOT WORK because it has no Androgenic in it. No Mass,No Class.This is a tricky part...Some actually Do Keep their Gains from their OWN Testosterone.

No you don't.Vidas numbers don't account for how strongly androgens bind to receptors.Look at masteron... it has a low androgenic profile yet is pretty damn androgenic because of it's ability to bind more tightly to prostate androgen receptors.

Masteron is Drostanolone Propionate and the Ratio of androgenic/anabolic is 25-40...The person still has free floating testosterone in their body and maybe...just maybe it was the androgenic part of their OWN testosterone that made them keep their gains.Which is why the 25-40 is LOW androgenic because it didn't shut down the person's test completely.

I have no idea what you're saying here.
Beastdrol will give the least androgenic side effects because it has the lowest androgenic profile (20) and also a Q ratio of 20 meaning it binds to skeletal muscle androgen receptors 20x better than prostate androgen receptors. Epistane (havoc) has the highest androgenic profile so you get way more androgenic side effects from it. I have no idea why you think Epistane will give the least androgenic side effects.

I have no idea why you're bringing up the prostate ... Q ratio MEANS (Myotrophic) which means Muscle weight....Havoc means that 90/1200 means that you can train twice the volume or 3 times the volume and burn off any free testosterone which can happen and what is left and borrowing from the Epi chemical makeup to make more.

Now my IMHO .... the androgenic/anabolic ratio is important. Why??

1...100% anabolic means you can train 3 times the volume.You will swell and grow if you keep a basic diet of lots of protein and carbs because you loaded the muscles with extra hard anabolic work.

100% Androgenic means..More of a man.Lots of mass..KEEP reps VERY VERY LOW like 3-6 reps. That's IT.

100/100 blend...Means..You can train and warm up with 3 or 4 sets and fill up those muscles with blood and nutrients with the anabolic side and then do the Short heavy Reps in sets using the androgenic side.

Now the ratio is for Someone to figure out what is Best for them.The more toxic the liver is..the more you grow..I'll save that for another time.This is the pro-hormones section.

In rats (Vida numbers) it seems Havoc is a far more potent androgen in terms of building muscle.Yet we all know Dbol shits on Havoc any day of the week.
That's why you can't live by these ratios... rats metabolize compounds way differently than we do.You can't say for certain what a steroid will be like in humans just because you have the AA ratio known for the steroid.

Rats,deer Cow,monkeys,dogs...Same mammal class ..doesn't matter.Dbol is a different class steroid than havoc...Moonshape face and bloat.Or tight lean pure muscle mass of havoc.PCT is important for any type of Program.Everyone reacts differently to different weight training programs,diet,pro-hormones,lifestyle...And what we are talking about is also dosage related.I can't say for certain what is going to do what...but the androgenic/anabolic ratio is a very very good baseline.

When someone trains at 100% anabolic and then get diminished gains or the workout doesn't last long..then the Androgenic side of pro-hormones is needed.

 

[07Lane40]

there is so much is this fucking thread its ridiculous.

 

[Duke30]

there is so much bs is this fucking thread its ridiculous.

Everything said here is true.I don't see anything ridiculous.Unless you want to train differently then that of the ratio of androgenic/anabolic.

Powerlifters uses testosterone to lifting heavy..no reason why they should go use 100% anabolic unless they had a heavy set of balls to begin with.

A runner would use something like 100% anabolic like Ben johnson but he didn't ...he used Winstrol ratio of 30/320...if Ben didn't use the 30 and was at zero...he might have won and never got caught,but I've heard they waited 3 hours in the room to wait for his pee.He was too big at 30 ratio of androgens.

 

[chocolatemilk]

There are so many things wrong with what you said that there's now way I'm addressing it all... just understand that the androgenic factor that Vida assigns comes from the weight gain of the seminal vesicles and the ventral prostate in rats. The androgenic value of AA ratios tell you the propensity of a steroid to bind to androgen receptors in the rat prostate and make it grow--nothing more. They don't tell you anything about how to train...

lmao

 

[07Lane40]

if you actually knew what the AA ratio measured this wouldn't even be a discussion.


from bill roberts (who is an actual chemist that specializes in AAS):

What these numbers specify is the measured ratio of growth in rats of the levator ani muscle versus the prostate.

The levator ani is not a skeletal muscle, but is analogous to the human PCG muscle. It really is not a good assay for effect on skeletal muscle.

And prostate growth is of course a measurement only of that particular possible side effect. In rats.

So perhaps the reason that "anabolic/androgenic ratios" are useless in bb'ing is because they are derived from measurements which aren't useful: that is to say, they aren't good predictors.

its not as simple as "cell growth":"Man characteristics"

this shit is based on fucking RATS, while similar do NOT have the same physiological responses to stimulations as humans.

on top of that these ratios don't even measure the fucking growth of anything used in BB! its for clinical study. they're measuring a fucking pelvic muscle and a rat's prostate.

heres another for you:

http://rphr.endojournals.org/cgi/reprint/57/1/411.pdf

section two near table I states that it could just as easily be used as androgenic:androgenic because the levitor ani is also used in rat reproduction.

 

[Duke30]

Who said anything about rats or rats being used...LOL

A little scrutiny is needed about all those tests on aas and ummm pro-hormones.

Yea..Lets say..Rats were used

 

[07Lane40]

thats exactly what were used. and if you read the article written by a pharmacologist that i provided you'd see that virtually no A:A tests haven't been done since the '70s.

so now your hell fire of being determined that AA is the end all be all of steroids usage determination is done?


thank god.

 

[Duke30]

Well...I'm doing the Halo-Plex Halo Clone..then work my way up to Havoc.
Along with Sterobol-Abol and fish oil.


But wow!! Had a crazy workOut yesterday...1/2 hour on the treadmill then hit 30 sets on the triceps and 20 sets on the biceps.I'm still Pumped From 2x25mg halo-plex a day later right now. Oh yea..I taken some nitric oxide pills too.Funny thing..it was only 70% of my max on all reps at 9-13 reps.

Nothing Androgenic yet.That's what the Havoc is for

 

[Deputy2002]

You guys have me confused...Let me just ask this and hopefully no one gets mad that I have not read the same study that you guys have from the 1970's. If I am on halodrol do I need to be doing twice the sets and reps that I am use to or should I just keep lifting heavy weight in the 6-12 rep range for the normal amount of sets????

 

[Duke30]

You guys have me confused...Let me just ask this and hopefully no one gets mad that I have not read the same study that you guys have from the 1970's. If I am on Halodrol do I need to be doing twice the sets and reps that I am use to or should I just keep lifting heavy weight in the 6-12 rep range for the normal amount of sets????

Twice the sets.You are making pathways for the muscle like a booster that's running on premium instead of regular gas with Halodrol.You can do longer and forcing the muscles to grow,And you don't have to train as hard like 65% to 75% of your max as not to spill over your androgenic hormones.Now if you decide to go Heavy like Squats..then it will tap your androgenic reserves and since halo is almost a straight anabolic,you will not get tired.

I usually do 9-13 reps with the last 3 reps going very slow as if i have more energy to do more BUT saving that for the next set.(it's only 65-75% of my max) ..not even a hard day at the gym.

I found a page about with the Halodrol clones from a doctor or scientist,When One is working out..It is Highly..Very highly that One does twice the Volume.I can't find that page....wish I saved it.I know I did,But Just can't find it ATM.He was saying as with all Halo clones,Twice the volume and he recommends it.

I couldn't figure that out why...then I saw the androgenic/anabolic ratio and thought..well that does make more sense.

I even bought some Nitric oxide pills for more blood veins to appear

Now on the other hand...If someone is on a Halodrol clone...and he is having sore joints,that's usually a sign that there's no more estrogen and possible..no more testosterone..He spend way to long in the gym and too heavy for too long thus spending all of his androgenic hormones in the gym....

How much time is too long in the gym ?
Maybe anything over an hour....I did a half an hour on the treadmill and 45 min in the gym doing just 2 muscle groups.

Couple way to train if you can find the half life of the Halodrol and time yourselves in the gym and drink something if you're going over an hour.

 

[07Lane40]

You guys have me confused...Let me just ask this and hopefully no one gets mad that I have not read the same study that you guys have from the 1970's. If I am on halodrol do I need to be doing twice the sets and reps that I am use to or should I just keep lifting heavy weight in the 6-12 rep range for the normal amount of sets????

not really. keep lifting heavy. if you can increase your work load (weight x reps x sets) of your workout, great - you should do that anyways while lifting natty (unless you're cutting where thats usually impossible). steroids increase you ability to increase work load more quickly and drastically by improving your recovery. a lot of people will do more sets because they "feel on" - they don't mathematically double their sets and reps when on.

keep a progressive scheme and you will do exactly what you're supposed to.


all this banter back and forth was basically meaningless and revolved around A:A ratios... which don't readily apply to weightlifting or BBing.

train hard, increase weight, reps when you can (while staying in your preferred rep range) and sets if you feel good, and you will see results.

 

[07Lane40]

Twice the sets.You are making pathways for the muscle like a booster that's running on premium instead of regular gas with halodrol.You can do longer and forcing the muscles to grow,And you don't have to train as hard like 65% to 75% of your max as not to spill over your androgenic hormones.Now if you decide to go Heavy like Squats..then it will tap your androgenic reserves and since halo is almost a straight anabolic,you will not get tired.

I usually do 9-13 reps with the last 3 reps going very slow as if i have more energy to do more BUT saving that for the next set.(it's only 65-75% of my max) ..not even a hard day at the gym.

I found a page about with the Halo clones from a doctor or scientist,When One is working out..It is Highly..Very highly that One does twice the Volume.I can't find that page....wish I saved it.I know I did,But Just can't find it ATM.He was saying as with all Halo clones,Twice the volume and he recommends it.

I couldn't figure that out why...then I saw the androgenic/anabolic ratio and thought..well that does make more sense.

I even bought some Nitric oxide pills for more blood veins to appear

i'd love to see said page, his credentials and reasoning behind it. your body is not a calculator, listen to it, not some "doctor".

how many successful cycles have you run with your "double sets" scheme duke? lets hear your anecdotal evidence because right now you're merely making up facts and statistics.

you know dorian yates has used/uses a SINGLE working set? that motherfucker is huge. did he go all out on volume when he's on (the majority of the year)? i don't think so.

 

[chocolatemilk]

holy shit I swear I lose brain cells every time I read dukes posts

 

[Duke30]

i'd love to see said page, his credentials and reasoning behind it. your body is not a calculator, listen to it, not some "doctor".

We are running Halodrol-clones..Not testosterone..if I find the page...I'll let ya know.

how many successful cycles have you run with your "double sets" scheme duke? lets hear your anecdotal evidence because right now you're merely making up facts and statistics.

Double sets ? More like 30 sets per body part but 2 bodyparts per gym visit .Fact

you know dorian yates has used/uses a SINGLE working set? that motherfucker is huge. did he go all out on volume when he's on (the majority of the year)? i don't think so.

We are talking about Halodrol clones.Now speaking of Yates..If he was on Tests boosters...that will explain why he's hugh..Low Reps and heavy.That's the Testosterone part of the cycle.Even Mike Mentzer trained the same way...Maybe Mike (r.i.p.) understands What I'm talking about.Not EveryOne agrees with Mike"Heavy duty" Menzter..Why ?? Because some were on Halodrol clones! and got crappy results!..they used up all their testosterone in the gym working out tooo long and heavy 100% anabolic style with Halodrol or the chemistry name of Halodrol.There no testosterone in their cycle given their workload and body-wise.(just a few to function)

Halo will increase your testosterone but by how much..no one know unless you do a blood test.

Deputy2002 doesn't have to change anything if he doesn't want to.Depending on his goals.We know he's not testosterone-deficit.His body will make enough.That's when recovery will make him grow..he has enough testosterone left over.BUT doing 0-100 androgenic/anabolic Halodrol pro-hormones seems a waste of time lifting heavy until you get symptoms of being estrogen deficit (sore joints,dry mouth)..One probably doesn't have any testosterone left for recovery.

I used to read about some people who complained about bodybuilders using 20 sets to warm up..THEN ..do One or 2 HEAVY sets when the said bodybuilder is advocating just one set each time he goes to the gym.

 

[chocolatemilk]

omg omg omg omg omg omg omg

you can't "use up" testosterone by working out

it is a lipid which degrades over time in the body just like all proteins... it can bind to receptor, cause transcription, be released by the receptor, and bind again until the molecule is altered (damaged) or metabolized by enzymes. it has a lifetime in the body that is not dependent on how much weights you lift. it's not fucking gasoline bro

 

[Duke30]

omg omg omg omg omg omg omg

you can't "use up" testosterone by working out

Where does Lethargy then come from?

Using up all the testosterone from going to heavy on a 0-100% androgenic/anabolic pro-hormone.

Of course the body going to save some for it's functions. Good Lord !!!