Bench Training

[blackbeard]

This is from Travis Mash's log the other day:

"I am going to say that I believe that moving away totally from speed is a bad idead. I think that Metal Militia has added a lot to the bench press, but I believe that its weak spot is the Speed Bench. They concentrate to much on form, technique, and working the strength curve of the bench shirt. The best benchers out there on a consistent basis are very strong and very fast (Kennelly, Patterson, and myself, ha, ha). If you are fast and strong, you can mess up your technique and still pull it out. Just my two cents, but I am interested in hearing any feedback."

just cursious what you guys think about the bench as far as what has helped doesnt help..is speed work a waste etc. opinions/thoughts lets hear it!!

 

[DaLinkWent]

I concur

 

[jcp2]

Speed bench works raw, i can only imagine the benefit when i put the shirt on.

 

[gottabadrash]

i get stuck fast raw without speed, i've tried arching insanely and all different ways to push the wieght... yet the only thing that makes the numbers go up is speed benching..

 

[pullinbig]

dont confuse speed work with explosion out of the hole. any one can do speed work with 50% of max weight. try it with heavy weight. it dont work. building power out of the hole generates power and speed thru the entire lift. in a meet you gotta wait on the press command so stored energy is heavily negated, unlike in squats where it is a big factor.

this is why i like training the bottom of the bench as well. how do you do this? raw paused is one way but i normally use heavy band tension raw with a pause. easier on the shoulders and simulates more oif a shirted bench. also bottom up benching in the rack from varying heights.

i beleive mike miller doesnt do any speed benching. i do it on ocassions but dont really see a huge carry over into a shirted paused bench.

even though me and travis are local nc boys (and he smokes my ass in lifting) i disagree to an extent. MM are the best benchers out there and many of louis guys are not great benchers, comparitively speaking. i do agree that some speed work is beneficial but not to base the entire routine on it as loui has done in the past.

of well thats my 2ml on the subject. maybe mike will chime in.

 

[jcp2]

dont confuse speed work with explosion out of the hole. any one can do speed work with 50% of max weight. try it with heavy weight. it dont work. building power out of the hole generates power and speed thru the entire lift. in a meet you gotta wait on the press command so stored energy is heavily negated, unlike in squats where it is a big factor.

this is why i like training the bottom of the bench as well. how do you do this? raw paused is one way but i normally use heavy band tension raw with a pause. easier on the shoulders and simulates more oif a shirted bench. also bottom up benching in the rack from varying heights.

i beleive mike miller doesnt do any speed benching. i do it on ocassions but dont really see a huge carry over into a shirted paused bench.

even though me and travis are local nc boys (and he smokes my ass in lifting) i disagree to an extent. MM are the best benchers out there and many of louis guys are not great benchers, comparitively speaking. i do agree that some speed work is beneficial but not to base the entire routine on it as loui has done in the past.

of well thats my 2ml on the subject. maybe mike will chime in.

I have been doing my speed bench reps all paused, like your boy SB recommended. I can say it is night and day.

 

[blackbeard]

but applying more force to the bar creates more speed thus creates power..

you cant develop your rate of force with a bar so heavy that it is moving at a snails pace..hence the reason for using sub max weights

 

[blackbeard]

i get stuck fast raw without speed, i've tried arching insanely and all different ways to push the wieght... yet the only thing that makes the numbers go up is speed benching..

everyone who lifts a weight whether its raw or in a shirt will get stuck with no speed..thats a no brainer

 

[pullinbig]

i agree some speed work can be a good thing. i said that. but years ago when halbert was benching at his peak everyone was saying speed, speed, speed. all that speed work wore a lot of people out and caused a lot of injuries.

travis said mm had gotten away from speed work but look at the best benchers in the world, mm has revolutionalized benching. they use "very limited" speed work but its not the base of the routine. this is what i am saying. read my post again.

also when mcvicar was teaching me to bench we never did speed work. we did a lot of board presses, lockouts and shirt work. my bench went up over 50lbs in a very short time with 0 speed work.

no way anyone can compare shirted benching to raw benching. two different animals.

and to say that lack of speed will get you stuck is a no brainer is just not true. i have seen lots of big benches creep up slowly and get locked out. watch all the big benches. almost all of them are slow.

and once again grass hopper you will never convince me that benching 135 very fast will make me as strong as benching 225 with a moderate pace. we do singles in meets not sets. if you used to doing primarily speed work with 315 and then you unrack 505 at a meet, you ass is gonna get crushed. you have to feel heavy weight in order to move heavy weight. same with squats and deads. nothing increases strength better than heavy ass weight.

its kinda odd to hear travis sayingthis stuff because i rember just a coupe of years ago 505 was a load on him benching. i seen him at several meets struggling with low 5 benches. he switched over to a mm based routine and his numbers took off. i think now he has incorporated a combo of ME/DE and MM.

also important to rember that no one routine will yeild the same results for everyone.

gary frank only does singles and dbls for his bench traing. rycheck uses insane band tension coupled with lots of shirt work. chris cooke combines lots of top wend work with lots of shirt work. kyle robertson (top jr bencher in the world) uses high volume bands, boards and shirt work. no mention of speed work anywhere in there.

 

[blackbeard]

i dont disagree with you bubba
i was thinking of ditching speed work altogether and doing the militia workout exactly the way its laid out except only do 1 board per workout for 2-3 weeks then change it and maybe dropping declines on the raw day

 

[jcp2]

I just counted 11 700+ benches at westside, and these are from 3 lift guys not bench specialists. Not bad. Something must be right. Not to disagree with anyone, just an observation, and Holdsworth has talked about possibly breaking the 275 record in a full meet. Not bad.

 

[blackbeard]

I just counted 11 700+ benches at westside, and these are from 3 lift guys not bench specialists. Not bad. Something must be right. Not to disagree with anyone, just an observation, and Holdsworth has talked about possibly breaking the 275 record in a full meet. Not bad.

thank you jcp i didnt want to say it lol
JL is a tru bad ass and once he gets this injury sorted out..hes gonna kick ass
hes also got over an 800 DL

 

[blackbeard]

thank you jcp i didnt want to say it lol
JL is a tru bad ass and once he gets this injury sorted out..hes gonna kick ass
hes also got over an 800 DL

No doubt MM has changed benching..and theres no doubt that WSB has changed the way they do things ( precents, etc) if they didnt these two programs would be useless..its how the sport grows..

Ive also heard that Crawford was using a different template than the one listed on their site??

 

[jcp2]

thank you jcp i didnt want to say it lol
JL is a tru bad ass and once he gets this injury sorted out..hes gonna kick ass
hes also got over an 800 DL

I am not knocking anyones opinion, but i would last about one workout on militia sans gear. Maybe one week on cycle, lol. I wouldn't be able to effectively train other lifts. I am sure if works well for bench specialists, but i think it would kill most 3 lift guys. I read alot of Mules articles and so on, but his bench has not moved much since he went back to 3 lift, his squat is soaring, and i expect his dead to be much improved at the APF nationals, if he is still doing it. Maybe he will gain a little on his bench. Another thing i notice about alot of bench specialists, they bomb out all the time. When you hit one bench every two meets and it is huge that is fine, but three lift guys are not going to take the chances these specialists do. This is compltetely my opinion so just take it as that.

 

[blackbeard]

good point Mo

yeah MM is something that needs to be worked up to..actually someone asked similar question on their forum and Burns replied that you need to keep plugging away and eventually youll condition the body to handle the workload

i have no allegiance to WSB or MM im just trying to find what will work the best for me..i tend to hear that WS sucks by guys that dont train that way which is fine and its no surprise since some guys like doing X for 5 reps or Y for doubles etc..

 

[pullinbig]

mm is like west side in that you have to tailor it to fit your recovery abilities. they also like to build up gpp to increase workload. sound familiar?

as far as mm bechers go if they did compete 3 lift they would still have big benches.

i use a few principals from several different methods. which is where alot of guys who get old like me get too.

and i agree the bench guys do bomb out a lot. i think they open too heavy. but it happens in squat too. look at the last 2 wpo.

oh and mm is a benching routine. not 3 lift.

 

[jcp2]

as far as mm bechers go if they did compete 3 lift they would still have big benches.

.

Yes they would, now. Not sure if they could have built the bench up to that level while worrying about two other lifts, in the amount of time they did. That is all, i have tremedous respect for those guys, not taking anything away from them. It just seems everyone always states that none of the guys at westside can bench, but having 11 700 guys is pretty darn good imo, and none of them being specialists.

 

[pullinbig]

i am not bashing wsb at all. numbers speak for themselves from both camps.

cmon jcp2 waht say me and you go out for a few drinks later tonight. i might even dope up your beer so i can have some real fun later on after you go night night. Ill show some MM techniques. lololololololol

 

[blackbeard]

lol

 

[jcp2]

i am not bashing wsb at all. numbers speak for themselves from both camps.

cmon jcp2 waht say me and you go out for a few drinks later tonight. i might even dope up your beer so i can have some real fun later on after you go night night. Ill show some MM techniques. lololololololol

lol, I don't even want to know what technique that is.