Blast now or stick with TRT dose?

[MJF]

Another post mostly out of boredom. I just read, skimmed actually as it was a lot of info, China Wall's 16 wk cycle. My first thought it he has his stuff together. I have been considering a blast that I wanted to start right after my next doc visit first of Dec. A simple test c and eq cycle hoping go back to what was always my natural weight(before I let myself go and got really fat) of 185 but stay lean. Reason to start now based on, if I do gain 15-20 lbs of muscle, it'll be winter when I'm wearing bulky clothes and people won't think I'm juicing.

After reading CW's post, I kind of feel way under prepared. It made me think I'm acting like a typical "I want a magic pill and immediate gratification" type of person. I've only been working out/eating right for 6 months now.

Stats to make this post almost legit for this forum:
Cycle: 12 (but maybe 16) weeks of
400mg/wk test c, twice weekly injections
600mg/wk eq, twice Weekly injections with a front load I haven't fully decided on.
I want to do 250-500mg hcg. Opinions? I think my testes are suffering just from my trt dose.
I need to get a different AI as I had letro and was discouraged from using that. But at least it will be on hand.
I got pct stuff as well cause even though I will be cruising at my normal trt dose, I thought I needed pct. I guess I don't.
My trt dose is 150mg/wk now. But I'm sure the doc will lower it back to 100 cause my levels must be thru the roof as I feel f-ing fantastic.

You can stop reading there if you want and make your decision on if I should or shouldn't do it. 6 months ago I was 208 lbs of pure fat, couldn't do 6 minutes on an elliptical without wanting to die, ate mexican food and beers every night. I made a lifestyle change and stopped drinking, then started working out again. Wife was complaining about lack of libido and I knew from previous doctors I had low t so I went and got back on trt. I made a goal of being able to see my abs and I can see all but the bottom row so I'm close. And after I get there, I figured I would work back to my normal weight if I could do it while still seeing my 4 pack.

My diet obviously works for slimming down, but I'll need to add in more clean calories to bulk back up properly. Should I blast then cruise now or give it 6 months to a year? I'm confident that my diet and working out and trt dose would be enough without a blast to get me where I want to go, it just wouldn't be quite as quick.

 

[MJF]

Regarding pct, my T levels were 240ish before TRT. Not much but at least it was something. At those levels is there any benefit at all to doing pct, then restarting TRT doses? After 12-16 weeks, my body's production will be zero. Would it bounce back eventually at TRT doses. I am not worried about fertility. I would have already had the surgery if my wife didn't have it. But I don't want raisin nuts either.

 

[hiram1st]

I'm thinking about doing the same thing you are but am going to stay with just trt , training/nutrition with 3j to get the farthest I can without a blast.

Having a little issue during my recomp noticing everything and think I am noticing a little gyno and am dealing with it.
The reason I bring that up is because guys who have excess bf have a greater chance of more gyno issues something we don't need to bring on ourselves if we don't need to. Remembering this is a marathon and not a sprint is hard for me also LOL.

PCT? Staying on trt right? Why would you need PCT?

One things for sure it doesn't hurt to have every ancillary on hand even on trt just in case needed.

Looking forward to reading what others advise.

Good luck

 

[MJF]

I tend to babble on when I post. Yes, I will be on trt forever I guess. Just wondering about the harm to my body's ability to produce it's own T with a blast and nothing to restart it.

And I am very prone to gyno. Even when doc put me up to 150 per week, I started noticing discomfort in nipples so jumped on something.

 

[cybrsage]

If you are on TRT then you will shut down your body's own test production. There is no restart since you will never stop taking the test injections. Besides, your body was already producing almost no test on its own, else you would not be on TRT. Basically, you are losing the very small amount your body was already making and replacing it will the amount needed to make you feel good and right.

 

[halfwit]

Another post mostly out of boredom. I just read, skimmed actually as it was a lot of info, China Wall's 16 wk cycle. My first thought it he has his stuff together. I have been considering a blast that I wanted to start right after my next doc visit first of Dec. A simple test c and eq cycle hoping go back to what was always my natural weight(before I let myself go and got really fat) of 185 but stay lean. Reason to start now based on, if I do gain 15-20 lbs of muscle, it'll be winter when I'm wearing bulky clothes and people won't think I'm juicing.

After reading CW's post, I kind of feel way under prepared. It made me think I'm acting like a typical "I want a magic pill and immediate gratification" type of person. I've only been working out/eating right for 6 months now.

Stats to make this post almost legit for this forum:
Cycle: 12 (but maybe 16) weeks of
400mg/wk test c, twice weekly injections
600mg/wk eq, twice Weekly injections with a front load I haven't fully decided on.
I want to do 250-500mg hcg. Opinions? I think my testes are suffering just from my trt dose.
I need to get a different AI as I had letro and was discouraged from using that. But at least it will be on hand.
I got pct stuff as well cause even though I will be cruising at my normal trt dose, I thought I needed pct. I guess I don't.
My trt dose is 150mg/wk now. But I'm sure the doc will lower it back to 100 cause my levels must be thru the roof as I feel f-ing fantastic.

You can stop reading there if you want and make your decision on if I should or shouldn't do it. 6 months ago I was 208 lbs of pure fat, couldn't do 6 minutes on an elliptical without wanting to die, ate mexican food and beers every night. I made a lifestyle change and stopped drinking, then started working out again. Wife was complaining about lack of libido and I knew from previous doctors I had low t so I went and got back on trt. I made a goal of being able to see my abs and I can see all but the bottom row so I'm close. And after I get there, I figured I would work back to my normal weight if I could do it while still seeing my 4 pack.

My diet obviously works for slimming down, but I'll need to add in more clean calories to bulk back up properly. Should I blast then cruise now or give it 6 months to a year? I'm confident that my diet and working out and trt dose would be enough without a blast to get me where I want to go, it just wouldn't be quite as quick.

The bolded line is why I'm suggesting you wait longer. You really don't want to incur an injury because you are excited about the prospect of improving your body more. Joints and other connective tissues require a great deal more time before they are able to handle the added stress of additional muscle mass pushing more weight on them. I totally understand where you're coming from, but six months is just not enough time. Give it at LEAST another six months before you take the plunge imo.

Also, why EQ? I think you should keep doing your homework on what each compound does and why you feel it would be beneficial. I agree that China Wall does have his shit together, but he has also been doing this for a very long time and has done a great deal of research I'm sure. Even though you're on TRT, you should really blast with a higher dose of testosterone ONLY and see how your body responds. This also helps you to understand estradiol management, which can become infinitely more important when tossing other compounds on that bring with them their own set of side effects -- some of which are compounded when you have out of control E2.

Keep at the diet, train hard, keep researching, and you'll be ready before you know it. An educated person will ALWAYS have a more successful cycle/blast than one that haphazardly guesses (not implying this is the case) and throws darts at a board, hoping for results. I say this as I did have some problems starting before I knew enough to be prepared for blasting myself.

My .02c

 

[MJF]

Eq was picked one on availability (but that was before I spent two days here so that's not a problem any longer), the fact that I read it aromatized less than some others and gyno was a concern, and that it was touted as being a good addition to the test for a lean cutting cycle.

I initially was scared of adding real ancillaries to control the estrogen. Drug testing fears that have gone away.

 

[MJF]

And while I want the instant gratification of having the lean mass when summer rolls around because I am having a pool built right now, that's kind of why I started this thread. I was feeling like I should wait and figured I'd let you guys talk me into waiting.

And I really feel that once I get off this crazy work schedule, I can dial in the diet and get close to where I want. My intensity in the gym is pretty high so if I can add in more clean calories and keep that up, I think I'll be happy.

 

[halfwit]

Eq was picked one on availability (but that was before I spent two days here so that's not a problem any longer), the fact that I read it aromatized less than some others and gyno was a concern, and that it was touted as being a good addition to the test for a lean cutting cycle.

I initially was scared of adding real ancillaries to control the estrogen. Drug testing fears that have gone away.

My experience is that cutting can be done just as effectively on TRT doses as on a dose much higher. I'd save the AAS (beyond TRT) for when you decide to pack on mass. EQ is a niche drug and honestly is far more popular than I think it should be. That and you really don't want to deal with an increased hunger/increased RBC if cutting - which EQ tends to provide. Aromatization at TRT doses is an entirely different animal than when on blast, remember that.

It's all about diet. I know folks don't believe that, but I have seen first hand exactly just how powerful it can be. 3J has a TON of threads showing progress pics from his clients (I am one too), and it's simply amazing what a change in diet can do to our bodies. I'd focus on that before hitting up the AAS.

It's not a race, just be persistent and you'll meet your goals.

 

[MJF]

Thank you sir for your reply.

Before stumbling across this place in a google search for trt, most of my aas research was just a google search that mostly led me to steroid dot com where I would read about each one that was available thru my friend and try to determine the side effects and if it would aggravate my gyno.

As I said, I'm over my fear of drug testing as I don't think they would check for ai's. So I will lurk longer and learn and maybe later put something together that I have put more planning into.

I plan to start 3J's reverse pyramid training soon. And I would like to enlist his services on the diet if santa brings me some christmas money.

 

[halfwit]

Thank you sir for your reply.

Before stumbling across this place in a google search for trt, most of my aas research was just a google search that mostly led me to steroid dot com where I would read about each one that was available thru my friend and try to determine the side effects and if it would aggravate my gyno.

As I said, I'm over my fear of drug testing as I don't think they would check for ai's. So I will lurk longer and learn and maybe later put something together that I have put more planning into.

I plan to start 3J's reverse pyramid training soon. And I would like to enlist his services on the diet if santa brings me some christmas money.

You certainly won't regret this approach. I'm 38 and in better shape than most of the 20 year olds at my gym. I owe much of that to what I've learned here and from friends in the business of improving the machine known as the human body.

Keep learning, soon you'll likely know more than the average general practice doctor when it comes to hormones and nutrition.

 

[MJF]

I have one more stupid question. I'm almost afraid to ask it and be laughed out of here. But worst case is I get my feelings hurt and take my ball and go home. I am right at 3 weeks of my dose increase to 150mg per week, which was an increase from 100 per week. The first 2 weeks I followed the doc's orders and injected once a week, but noticed some slight tenderness in nipples so I jumped on PES erase and divided dose up to twice weekly.

But I've been feeling something in my testes. It's a very, very, very slight dull ache down there. Nothing bad, they just feel different. It's very likely just something in my head. I bought some hcg and have been reading up on it so I was considering throwing some in with the cycle. But if I'm not doing it now, I don't know.

My trt dose seems too small to cause atrophy and I don't even know if you would feel a dull pain if atrophy was happening. Opinions? I will say I went from sex every night to weekends only with my new work schedule ~4 weeks ago so maybe that could be the problem.

 

[halfwit]

I have one more stupid question. I'm almost afraid to ask it and be laughed out of here. But worst case is I get my feelings hurt and take my ball and go home. I am right at 3 weeks of my dose increase to 150mg per week, which was an increase from 100 per week. The first 2 weeks I followed the doc's orders and injected once a week, but noticed some slight tenderness in nipples so I jumped on PES erase and divided dose up to twice weekly.

But I've been feeling something in my testes. It's a very, very, very slight dull ache down there. Nothing bad, they just feel different. It's very likely just something in my head. I bought some hcg and have been reading up on it so I was considering throwing some in with the cycle. But if I'm not doing it now, I don't know.

My trt dose seems too small to cause atrophy and I don't even know if you would feel a dull pain if atrophy was happening. Opinions? I will say I went from sex every night to weekends only with my new work schedule ~4 weeks ago so maybe that could be the problem.

Suppression of natural testosterone will cause atrophy of the testes, that dull ache is most likely just that. I experienced it and many other guys I know have too. HCG can minimize the atrophy and stop the aching (if it is indeed what is causing the ache), but it does take a little time.

If you're having problems with gyno or tenderness (don't go playing with your nipples) of the breast tissue, you NEED to get a blood test to see if it is indeed estradiol (most likely) and start up an AI. OTC stuff WILL NOT prevent aromatization -- I don't care how well marketed the product is or what claims they make. This is where it would be best to talk to your doctor and have him pull the blood panel so he can prescribe the AI (please check back here as many docs WAY overprescribe AI doses) to keep your hormones in check.

 

[MJF]

My doc won't even consider any ai. If I ask he raises an eyebrow and asks about steroid abuse. I have letro that I was planning to run at .25mg eod but everyone said no. Only other thing I have on hand is liquid clomi and liquid tamox that I bought before I knew I wouldn't need them.

Honestly though, the erase knocked out the irritation in just a couple days. I'll have to go back thru my posts to see what was recommended over letro. I can't remember if it was aromasin or raloxifene.

I was planning to order the female hormone panel from megatron's sig, but I'm feeling great now other than the achy balls. Edit: I saw a response megatron made to someone in the trt forum when they said they "feel" great like I just said. I'll order thw blood test so he doesn't come over and rip me a new one. It'll be Monday, but I will report back with results.

 

[MJF]

I'm also not ruling out that nipple sensitivity and the effectiveness of the otc treatment was made up/imagined as I'm hyper sensitive about my gyno getting any worse.