Can I jump from Bulking to Cutting with no PCT in between?

[dinosaurjim]

So before anyone jumps in here and calls me an idiot (which I may be), let me say first why I have heard that this might be a good idea. I have read on some sites and talked to some guys who suggest that if you're going to do a cycle and then after the cycle is over, do 4 weeks of PCT and then jump onto another cycle (whether bulking or cutting), it can really mess with your pituitary and you could cause irrevocable damage to that system. They have suggested that if you're going to do cycle after cycle after cycle, it makes sense to just do the cycles one right after the other and then when you're ready to take some time off, do your PCT.

The other side of that coin is that you finish your cycle, give some time for the long acting esters to clear, then jump into some PCT, do that for some weeks and then when the PCT is over, you still can't jump onto another cycle without waiting even MORE weeks for your body to recover and reset. SO if you cycled for 12 weeks and then took 2 weeks off, then 4 weeks of PCT then you'd have to take another 12 weeks off with no steroids at all before you could start another cycle again (bulking OR cutting). To me that seems like a long time. Doing the math that way, you'd only get to do about 2 cycles per year with all of that PCT and recovery time. Is this really necessary?

I did my very first cycle earlier in the year for 12 weeks. It was Test for 12 weeks, Dbol for the first 6 weeks to get things jump started. Then at the end I did some nolvadex PCT for 4 weeks, took about 6 weeks off and started my second bulking cycle. I'm just about to wrap up this cycle, and here's how it looks:

Test-C 600mg weekly for 12 weeks
Deca 400mg weekly for 12 weeks (I split the Test and Deca into 2 different pins each week, but these are the total amounts per week)
Dbol 50mg ed for the first 6 weeks as a kickstarter
Arimidex 0.5mg eod for 12 weeks.

I plan to take 2 weeks off at the end of cycle with no steroids to allow the esters to start to dissipate (I know they will not be totally gone after 2 weeks, but levels should be low enough that PCT can start)

PCT plan:
HCGT 500 iu/ed for 10 days
Nolvadex starts at the same time, 40mg ed for 2 weeks then 20mg ed for 2 weeks

Then I plan to get on a cutting cycle. My cutting cycle is going to be my first one yet, and I haven't figured out the best one to do yet. Probably will consist of the following:

1-8 weeks 100mg Testosterone Propionate eod
1-6 weeks 100mg Winstrol ed
1-2 weeks 80mcg Clen ed
4-6 weeks 60mcg Clen ed
1-8 weeks 20mg Aromasin eod

So the question is, should I bother with the PCT between bulking and cutting at all? Or should I jump right into the cutting cycle? Or if I do bother with PCT, can I just do the 4-6 weeks and then jump right into the cutting cycle or do I need to make sure I take an additional 12 weeks off to match the amount of time I was on my bulking cycle?

I don't want to turn this into a debate and I know there will be a lot of opinions on slight modifications of dosages, etc. I don't want this to be a discussion about whether or not the cycles are clean and legit, I just want to find out about the PCT and recovery time.

Thanks all you experts!

 

[3J]

my concern would be the necessary maint phase after bulking.. i never want to jump straight into a cut

 

[halfwit]

Let me ask you a very simple question.

How do you feel about TRT? Pinning testosterone for the rest of your life because you no longer make it naturally. This means blood donations every other month forever, managing estradiol, and keeping an eye on other hormones that may fall to the way side as the HPTA has been broken.

If that sounds fine; remembering that priorities do change over time, and you're up to the extra responsibility and doctor visits - then you're on the road already in that direction.

Heck, if you're cool with the concept of injecting hormones for the rest of your life, skip PCT (your bro-sources are retarded) as there's ZERO point to trying to recover the pituitary - only to shut it down again so quickly.

I have seldom met an individual that can successfully go from bulk to cut without regretting such a change in pace. You want a maintenance phase in there so your body can reset the "thermostat", and not fight the changes you're throwing its way. The body really likes homeostasis (technically allostasis), and if it doesn't know which way is up - will break down.

This is why yo-yo dieters have such problems. They crash diet, get to a number on the scale, and go back to poor eating habits. The body remembers (not including the damage done from a crappy way to diet) how happy it was previously, and fights efforts to remain at the new composition (ghrelin/leptin are big culprits here)

In short; bulk/cut -> maintenance/recovery -> bulk/cut. I learned this one the hard way.

My .02c

 

[anzel]

I agree you need maintenance phase. But there are no absolutes. I do know a guy who goes right to cut phase and does extremely well. I copied what he does adjusted to my BMR TDEE and found it disappointing. I don't know why but he is different. He also hardly needs an AI .

 

[LeoNtin]

I agree you need maintenance phase. But there are no absolutes. I do know a guy who goes right to cut phase and does extremely well. I copied what he does adjusted to my BMR TDEE and found it disappointing. I don't know why but he is different. He also hardly needs an AI .

What may work for one, may not work for everyone. And about trial and error yes. However, this is really risky. If it goes wrong, you may be on TRT, like halfwit mentioned, for the rest of your life.

3 advices for you
-Dont do it. Very risky.
-Dont listen to bro science.
-Listen to this forum, may be harsh, but it's not dangerous.

 

[Milton]

So before anyone jumps in here and calls me an idiot (which I may be), let me say first why I have heard that this might be a good idea. I have read on some sites and talked to some guys who suggest that if you're going to do a cycle and then after the cycle is over, do 4 weeks of PCT and then jump onto another cycle (whether bulking or cutting), it can really mess with your pituitary and you could cause irrevocable damage to that system. They have suggested that if you're going to do cycle after cycle after cycle, it makes sense to just do the cycles one right after the other and then when you're ready to take some time off, do your PCT.

The other side of that coin is that you finish your cycle, give some time for the long acting esters to clear, then jump into some PCT, do that for some weeks and then when the PCT is over, you still can't jump onto another cycle without waiting even MORE weeks for your body to recover and reset. SO if you cycled for 12 weeks and then took 2 weeks off, then 4 weeks of PCT then you'd have to take another 12 weeks off with no steroids at all before you could start another cycle again (bulking OR cutting). To me that seems like a long time. Doing the math that way, you'd only get to do about 2 cycles per year with all of that PCT and recovery time. Is this really necessary?

I did my very first cycle earlier in the year for 12 weeks. It was Test for 12 weeks, Dbol for the first 6 weeks to get things jump started. Then at the end I did some nolvadex PCT for 4 weeks, took about 6 weeks off and started my second bulking cycle. I'm just about to wrap up this cycle, and here's how it looks:

Test-C 600mg weekly for 12 weeks
Deca 400mg weekly for 12 weeks (I split the Test and Deca into 2 different pins each week, but these are the total amounts per week)
Dbol 50mg ed for the first 6 weeks as a kickstarter
Arimidex 0.5mg eod for 12 weeks.

I plan to take 2 weeks off at the end of cycle with no steroids to allow the esters to start to dissipate (I know they will not be totally gone after 2 weeks, but levels should be low enough that PCT can start)

PCT plan:
HCGT 500 iu/ed for 10 days
Nolvadex starts at the same time, 40mg ed for 2 weeks then 20mg ed for 2 weeks

Then I plan to get on a cutting cycle. My cutting cycle is going to be my first one yet, and I haven't figured out the best one to do yet. Probably will consist of the following:

1-8 weeks 100mg Testosterone Propionate eod
1-6 weeks 100mg Winstrol ed
1-2 weeks 80mcg Clen ed
4-6 weeks 60mcg Clen ed
1-8 weeks 20mg Aromasin eod

So the question is, should I bother with the PCT between bulking and cutting at all? Or should I jump right into the cutting cycle? Or if I do bother with PCT, can I just do the 4-6 weeks and then jump right into the cutting cycle or do I need to make sure I take an additional 12 weeks off to match the amount of time I was on my bulking cycle?

I don't want to turn this into a debate and I know there will be a lot of opinions on slight modifications of dosages, etc. I don't want this to be a discussion about whether or not the cycles are clean and legit, I just want to find out about the PCT and recovery time.

Thanks all you experts!

amongst all your words, you never mention your own stats; age, weight, BF%, etc.

 

[Thedroidstr]

Don't question bro science, it's always spot on. I'm on trt since age 25 so I blast and cruise. Not my choice but I deal.

 

[luckypaul]

I respect the guys on this thread. The longer the cycle that you run the harder it is to recover, so that is what is at risk. Using PED's has consequences. That being said, I did include a cut as part of many cycles. I would run an 8 week bulk and 4 week cut, or somewhere around that time frame. I considered it part of the same cycle. That was followed by an effective pct and I did run 250iu of hcg 2x a week throughout the cycle.

I made it to 48 before I went on trt.

 

[dardone]

just wondering when did you do your first cycle