CEL P-PLEX Bulking Cycle. Suggestions?

[tH1e swiN1e]

Here goes.........

Im currently 25, 6'0", 170lbs, 11-13%. I have lifted since high school. Wrestled, played Lacrosse, and Boxed in high school all of which required weight training. Wrestled at 125 walked around at 135-138. In college/grad school focus switched to adding LBM and getting bigger and that has been the focus ever since. Currently maintaining I eat 3500+ cals/day 40/40/20. Usually would add 1.5k+ to that daily while bulking. Dont drink alcohol.

Long story short, a friend of mine stocked up on CEL stuff before it was banned/recalled and I got 2 bottles of P-Plex, a bottle of H-drol, and a bottle of M-drol for essentially nothing.

I cycled the H-drol January of last year. I got some decent gains and lost a substantial amount of BF (not the goal). BT showed post cycle therapy (pct) worked well and all ended well. Since then I have had these 3 bottles just calling my name, so Ive decided to take another plunge (I know Im an idiot, orals are a waste of time). This is what Im thinking.

Goal: Bulk, bulk, bulk. Overall goal 185# 8% or less.

Pre
CEL Cycle Assist - as directed - 2 weeks prior til end of post cycle therapy (pct).

PP - 10/20/30/30
Maybe Forma???

post cycle therapy (pct)
Nolva - 25x4, 20x3 /20/10/10
TForce - as directed
Vit C
DHEA
BCAA
Creatine
etc etc etc

Questions?
Was thinking of running Forma during but have read its not needed but optional. Thoughts?

Ive read that Nolva at anything over 25mg for orals is overkill and adds no benefit. True? False? Dosage OK?

Have read that raising carb intake on PPLEX helps gains dramatically??

Any additional critiques would be appreciated. Thanks

 

[07Lane40]

you should be a lot heavier naturally if you're eating well.

forma is optional. shouldn't really need it, though some people like it if you'd be prone to estrogen sides.

the nolva thing is BS IMO. steroids - injectable or oral - are still steroids and should be treated with the same PCT. 40/40/20/20 is the "standard" for nolva.

a lot of people like high carbs to fight lethargy - which would help gains. you need to define high carbs for you because everyone is different. figure out your diet before you even think about starting. it will make all the difference - natty or "on".

 

[tH1e swiN1e]

you should be a lot heavier naturally if you're eating well.

forma is optional. shouldn't really need it, though some people like it if you'd be prone to estrogen sides.

the nolva thing is BS IMO. steroids - injectable or oral - are still steroids and should be treated with the same PCT. 40/40/20/20 is the "standard" for nolva.

a lot of people like high carbs to fight lethargy - which would help gains. you need to define high carbs for you because everyone is different. figure out your diet before you even think about starting. it will make all the difference - natty or "on".

Im a climber and train several hours a week on top of my weekly weight training sessions, am I burning more calories then I think I am? My diet is mapped out on my fridge and I get exactly what it says everyday which for most people my size is a bulking diet. Should my bulk diet be my daily diet?? Im also a lacto-ovo vegetarian if that matters.

 

[Spongy]

ok, so you eat eggs and dairy right? If you don't mind me asking, where does your protein come from? I'm just trying to get a feel for the diet so I can try and help you out some more.

 

[tH1e swiN1e]

Yes I eat eggs and dairy. Some other high protein sources I rely on are tofu, lentils, beans (soy, garbanzo, pinto etc), nuts, seeds, yogurt, cottage cheese, quinoa, avocados, seitan (wheat protein) and green veggies.

I can type up a typical day of eating if needed.

 

[Spongy]

Man, that's impressive. I know nothing about vegetarian protein sources but I wonder if part of the reason you don't gain when you eat 3500 cal has to do with protein sources. This is 100% speculation though. I honestly have no clue.

 

[tH1e swiN1e]

Heres a few protein break downs if it helps.

1 cup garbanzo beans 14.5 grams
1 cup pinto beans 12
1 cup refried beans 15.5
1 cup soybeans 28
1 oz. cashews 4.4
1 oz. peanuts 6.5
1 cup tofu 22
1 cup lentils 18
1 cup yogurt 13
1 oz cheddar cheese 7.1
1 cup cottage cheese 10

 

[Spongy]

Here's the issue I see. Our bodies are not meant to break down vegetable proteins the same way our bodies break down protein from meat. I'm not saying you must eat meat, because clearly you've made a lifestyle choice and I completely respect that. I have not worked with any vegetarian clients, so I'm not in the best position to offer you advice... But I would suggest trying to get more protein from eggs and dairy products than from vegetable sources.

You ever notice getting gassy after eating a whole bunch of beans? It used to be thought that it was the fiber in the beans that cause that, but research has shown that it's actually the undigested protein. That's why people always talk about protein farts coming from certain protein shakes. If I drink too many shakes in too short a period of time I have horrible gas, reason being that I've ingested way more protein than I can digest.

That all being said, you may be consuming enough protein... But not actually digesting as much as you think. Consumed protein doesn't mean a thing if it isn't digested.

I have some research laying around somewhere, but it's late.

 

[Spongy]

also, beware of soy protein. Can raise Estrogen levels in men among other dangers. If you are unaware of this I can post some more info, just let me know or shoot me a PM

 

[07Lane40]

nut/bean protein is incomplete protein as well as all grain and other things that are not animal products (with the exception of soy).

thats probably why you're not building muscle.

the only thing you're getting with all the aminos to build muscle is the eggs,dairy and soy. the soy being high in estro is an urban legend

you have to pair your foods in the right way to get correct amounts (or close to) of all the amino acids. it doesn't matter if you have tons of some without adequate amounts of just one, you can't build new tissue in your body. period.

 

[tH1e swiN1e]

I already combine things for my "self made complete protein" like barley, beans and sesame seeds for example.

There are actually quite a few other complete protein sources I have ay my disposal. Buckwheat, hempseed, quinoa, amaranth, and spirulina along with the already mentioned whey, soy, cheese, yogurt, eggs, milk etc etc.

There are pro vegan (nothing but plants) bodybuilders. Look at Varinder Singh Ghuman or Bill Pearl. Meat obviously isnt needed to get big, probably helps with the time frame though lol.

 

[tH1e swiN1e]

also, beware of soy protein. Can raise Estrogen levels in men among other dangers. If you are unaware of this I can post some more info, just let me know or shoot me a PM

I tried to send you a PM but it said I wasnt allowed??

About the protein digestion, Ive heard that your body cant break down anything over 30-40g at any given time so keeping the amount broken up into small increments through out the day would aid in digestion/absorption. Do you have a take on this? Should gear/cycles be looked at with any sort of regard to me being a veggie? I understand most guys on here wont be fully hip with a vegetarian diet but any information is always appreciated.