Clomid-Alternative to TRT

[Cosmoen]

Has anybody with secondary hypogonadism ever successfully come off TRT and used low-dose clomid (12.5mg 3 times a week) as an alternative to TRT? My natural T was not particularly low (in the high 400-low 500 range). If I could get it to the 700-900 range through my own HPTA rather than rely on exogenous testosterone that would be great.

If so, I would love to hear about your experience.

Interesting Experience Here: *************

Advantages would be not having to worry about injections, fertility issues, and having to balance other ancillaries such as HCG, AIs, etc. Also, I was hoping it would restore a better balance to other hormones such as progesterone, cortisol, DHT, DHEA, etc.

 

[Megatron28]

It will raise T, but guys generally don't like the way they feel on clomid for a long time.

 

[Alpin]

Just go 25 or 50 mg EOD. Thats too low a dose.
Theres a study where men on 4 month EOD dose of 50 mg raised their LH to 7.7 IU/L
If you are mid range for LH at 3-4 IU/L even the 50 mg EOD might not be enough.

 

[Daniel_IMT_Staff]

Hello,

Some people have used or tried clomid to increase their Testosterone! The problem and benefit to clomid is that it attaches to certain Estrogen receptors. This works in our favor for the testosterone production but has activity in different regions which may be undesired. Estrogen has been shown to correlate strongly with anxiety and mental health. Many people feel awful on clomid because of the expression clomid exhibits at the receptor.

It's something to be mindful of and if that is what path you want to try, go for it! Most people do not achieve the levels of testosterone with clomid only however and in the long term those "selective" expressions build up and cause mental health problems. Estrogen usually raises along with the use of a SERM as well so be aware of that!

 

[jakesonyou]

I'm in a similar boat as you, but with a little bit lower test levels. I'm interested in hearing other's opinions...

 

[Alpin]

Hello,

Some people have used or tried clomid to increase their Testosterone! The problem and benefit to clomid is that it attaches to certain Estrogen receptors. This works in our favor for the testosterone production but has activity in different regions which may be undesired. Estrogen has been shown to correlate strongly with anxiety and mental health. Many people feel awful on clomid because of the expression clomid exhibits at the receptor.

It's something to be mindful of and if that is what path you want to try, go for it! Most people do not achieve the levels of testosterone with clomid only however and in the long term those "selective" expressions build up and cause mental health problems. Estrogen usually raises along with the use of a SERM as well so be aware of that!

Daniel, would 50 mg EOD clomid raise estradiol too high?
Have you heard of ppl getting anxiety from elevated E2 at that dose?

 

[Daniel_IMT_Staff]

Daniel, would 50 mg EOD clomid raise estradiol too high?
Have you heard of ppl getting anxiety from elevated E2 at that dose?

It is so difficult to say if 50mg Clomiphene EOD or even ED will raise estradiol "too high."

Yes, people can get a lot of anxiety from that dosage, whether it is directly from the drug clomid or elevated e2 it is hard to say. Sometimes it is from the clomid because e2 is controlled and sometimes it's just from e2 being elevated.

The hypothetical questions is very hard to answer to a point so it would be helpful for a general reading public. Each person is different and so is their response to drugs and e2.

 

[Alpin]

It is so difficult to say if 50mg Clomiphene EOD or even ED will raise estradiol "too high."

Yes, people can get a lot of anxiety from that dosage, whether it is directly from the drug clomid or elevated e2 it is hard to say. Sometimes it is from the clomid because e2 is controlled and sometimes it's just from e2 being elevated.

The hypothetical questions is very hard to answer to a point so it would be helpful for a general reading public. Each person is different and so is their response to drugs and e2.

I imagine if one has higher E2 while on clomid the use of an AI would not be appropriate. Serms & AI's aren't really meant to be used if one is on one or the other.

 

[STAUNCHED427]

Clomid is counterproductive in most people as the estrogenic effects outweigh any benefit of increased test.

Zuclomid however, well, you get the benefits of the increased testosterone production without the estrogenic agonism... Just needs to be approved already.

 

[Daniel_IMT_Staff]

I imagine if one has higher E2 while on clomid the use of an AI would not be appropriate. Serms & AI's aren't really meant to be used if one is on one or the other.

Then you would be imagining wrong

 

[Alpin]

Clomid is counterproductive in most people as the estrogenic effects outweigh any benefit of increased test.

Zuclomid however, well, you get the benefits of the increased testosterone production without the estrogenic agonism... Just needs to be approved already.

Thats true but docs will be reluctant to prescribe it till it establishes a track record of safety. Keep in mind that clomid has been on the market since the 1960s.
You are right clomid is a dual isomer drug: enclomiphene & zuclomiphene.

 

[STAUNCHED427]

Pretty much all drugs are in their "racemic" form, containing two stereoisomers, typically one isomer is where all the goodies are at and the other is where most of the sides come from. However, in some cases both isomers work synergistcally, however some only one isomer is desired.

 

[Alpin]

Its too early to see cause this has not even been FDA approved yet.

 

[Cosmoen]

What about the use of clomid in addition to test injections? The idea is to "naturally" stimulate the testes' own LH and FSH production instead of relying on artificial HCG.

 

[Alpin]

What about the use of clomid in addition to test injections? The idea is to "naturally" stimulate the testes' own LH and FSH production instead of relying on artificial HCG.

The 2 cannot be used at the same time.
"Artificial HCG"?
I think u mean to say clomid is artificial.

 

[Cosmoen]

If I ever attempt a restart and come off TRT, I am considering long term low dose clomid at possibly 12.5mg EOD just to give a slight boost in test numbers.

My pre-TRT LH/FSH were on the lower-normal range and I responded well to clomid in terms of raising test levels. However, I wasn't on it long enough to determine the effects on E2, other hormones, and mood.

 

[STAUNCHED427]

If I ever attempt a restart and come off TRT, I am considering long term low dose clomid at possibly 12.5mg EOD just to give a slight boost in test numbers.

My pre-TRT LH/FSH were on the lower-normal range and I responded well to clomid in terms of raising test levels. However, I wasn't on it long enough to determine the effects on E2, other hormones, and mood.

If I had to, I'd be blasting the shit out of hCG before coming off test until my balls are the size of mellons and run Toremifene or Zuclomid (if it is availible) @ 120mg ED or 50mg ED respectively.

 

[theheat]

What about using Clomid with Nolvadex...wouldn't that blunt some of the estrogenic side effects?

 

[STAUNCHED427]

Fuck Nolva...In my eyes it is now a useless compound. You want to fight gyno? Toremifene or Raloxifene. You want to boost test? Clomid or Toremifene. Simple.

Now Clomid, yes it works damn well, but until they bring out the single isomer Zuclomid the sides of it (for me and many others) beat the purpose of it. I feel worse on Clomid than with low test.

 

[theheat]

If I had to, I'd be blasting the shit out of hCG before coming off test until my balls are the size of mellons and run Toremifene or Zuclomid (if it is availible) @ 120mg ED or 50mg ED respectively.

What's a "blasting" dose of HCG? 1,000 IUs 3x week?