Could DHEA and Pregnenolone Increase My TT 300+ Points?

Megatron28

Megatron28

Moderator
Guys,

I could use some help from the brain trust -- all you guys on this forum.

I am due to see my doctor next week. I ran labs yesterday to bring in with me and my Total Testosterone is coming in way too high.

Before I get into that, here is a little background. The last time I gave labs to my doctor was the end of May. I was on 200mg per week of Test Cyp and .50mg of Arimidex per week. Both were split in half and taken every 3.5 days. My trough levels came back as follows:

Total Testosterone 1,184 (348-1197)
Estradiol, Regular Assay 39 (8-43)

Things were looking pretty good back then.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Now back to today. I am still taking 200mg of Test Cyp per week and .50mg of Arimidex per week (both split in half and taken every 3.5 days). Nothing has changed there. What is different since May is that I am now taking 50mg of Micronized DHEA and 100mg of Pregnenolone every day. I am also taking 100mg of Deca (Nandrolone Decanoate) per week. Here are yesterday's lab results:

Total Testosterone >1500 (348-1197)
Estradiol, Regular Assay 65 (8-43)
Prolactin 16.8 (4.0-15.2)


So, the Deca should not be affecting my Total Testosterone levels since it is not testosterone. I trust the source. Unless someone knows of a way that it can impact TT...

So that leaves DHEA and Pregnenolone. Could they have increased my Total Testosterone levels by over 300 points? The only other thing I can think of is that I could be metabolizing the testosterone differently now. Not sure what would have caused a dramatic change in the last 5 months, but who knows...

Can DHEA and Pregnenolone make that big of a difference when you are on TRT?

I'm not concerned about estradiol and prolactin. Those are elevated because my TT is higher than I thought. If am to remain at these levels I would simply need to take more Arimidex. I didn't expect to be at >1500 TT. Actually, considering how high my TT is, the Aromatase inhibitor (AI) is doing a better job than I would have guessed of controlling E2.

Thanks guys. In advance, I want to thank you for your help. I also have to figure out what to do with my doctor. Reschedule again (yes, I said again) or go in there and talk to him openly about the DHEA and Pregnenolone. He might shit his pants if he sees 1500! :-)
 
Prolactin is high....have you noticed anything ?
1500 T.T. wow!!!
How many days after shot was this lab ?
No wonder you are so aggressive in your ways.
Your trough levels are 1100 and change ?
 
APOLLON said:
Prolactin is high....have you noticed anything ?
1500 T.T. wow!!!
How many days after shot was this lab ?
No wonder you are so aggressive in your ways.
Your trough levels are 1100 and change ?
Click to expand...

You're not following along. In May my trough was ~1200 on this dose. Now my trough level is >1500 on this dose (not 1500 -- greater than 1500). The same dose of test cyp and Arimidex. Difference is possibly due DHEA and Pregnenolone. I take it now, but I was not taking it in May.

Agressive? I can tell you for a fact that the higher my Total Testosterone, the nicer I become. You want to see a grumpy and aggressive guy? Go back and see me when I was sitting at less than 200 for TT.

As for prolactin? No, I don't feel anything that I can point to. I do notice the high E2 though. Some more acne than usual. I don't feel quite right on the day before I am due to take another dose of Aromatase inhibitor (AI). But it is subtle. A little more Aromatase inhibitor (AI) would fix that. But I don't plan on staying at >1500.
 
Last edited:
Megatron28 said:
You're not following along. In May my trough was ~1200 on this dose. Now my trough level is >1500 on this dose (not 1500 -- greater than 1500). The same dose of test cyp and Arimidex. Difference is possibly due DHEA and Pregnenolone. I take it now, but I was not taking it in May.

Agressive? I can tell you for a fact that the higher my Total Testosterone, the nicer I become. You want to see a grumpy and aggressive guy? Go back and see me when I was sitting at less than 200 for TT.

As for prolactin? No, I don't feel anything that I can point to. I do notice the high E2 though. Some more acne than usual. I don't feel quite right on the day before I am due to take another dose of Aromatase inhibitor (AI). But it is subtle. A little more Aromatase inhibitor (AI) would fix that. But I don't plan on staying at >1500.
Click to expand...

Thanks for clearing it up. I still feel like you treated me hostile when I was having difficulty living with hypogonadism. You exacerbated my symptoms with your attacks. If you were at 200 ng/dl that gives you that much more reason to understand my condition as I was in the same position as you.
Oh well.
 
APOLLON said:
Thanks for clearing it up. I still feel like you treated me hostile when I was having difficulty living with hypogonadism. You exacerbated my symptoms with your attacks. If you were at 200 ng/dl that gives you that much more reason to understand my condition as I was in the same position as you.
Oh well.
Click to expand...

Stop hijacking my thread... Post your own thread and we can talk about your feelings and needs there. We can spoon and just hold each other.
 
APOLLON said:
Seems like you're an Alpha Male now with all that T in your system. I must learn to do obedience to you Master Mega.
Click to expand...

Dude, he doesn't wish you any harm. He's just baffeled as to why your situation played out like it did and frankly so are a lot of other people. It's not hostility on Megatron's part, he hardly ever shows hostility to anybody
 
DreDay187 said:
Dude, he doesn't wish you any harm. He's just baffeled as to why your situation played out like it did and frankly so are a lot of other people. It's not hostility on Megatron's part, he hardly ever shows hostility to anybody
Click to expand...

Take it easy bro. My situation played out the way it did because of the reasons I listed. Some where there was an unwritten rule that everyone gets on board to attack Apollon, be it 2 rude, Mega, and others.
No one deserves to be ridiculed and trampled on when they are hypogonadal.
Let's leave the guys thread be...enough of this ranting.
I respect his thread.
 
DHEA and DHEAS serve as the precursors of approximately 50% of androgens in men, 75% of active estrogens in premenopausal women, and 100% of active estrogens after menopause.[2,16] There appears to be a sex-specific response to DHEA replacement therapy in humans. In postmenopausal women (ages 50-65), supraphysiological doses of 100 mg of DHEA per day have predominantly androgenic effects, increasing testosterone levels approximately 300% over baseline levels.[21] In older men (mean ± S.D. age, 58.8 ± 5.1 years), 100 mg/day did not affect testosterone or dihydrotestosterone levels, but 17 beta-estradiol and estrone levels were increased over baseline by 37% and 225%, respectively (p < 0.0001 for both).[22] It has been hypothesized that the increase in serum estrogens may provide a mechanism for beneficial cardiovascular effects in men; however, clinical studies addressing the possible cardioprotective effects of DHEA have been inconclusive.
Click to expand...
.
 
Hi Megatron28,

You're making my brain go way way back and really work for this one. I'm going to type as I think aloud to keep focus...

Exogenous testosterone will suppress DHEA and Pregnenolone (it does not completely eliminate it). By supplementing with these drugs, we're replacing what is missing. It "Back fills" pathways to steroidogenesis. This is the P450cc pathway (Cholesterol side chain cleavage enzyme). hCG can actually do this for by activating the pathway (subject using hCG? need to know if Rx'd...). But the 2 drugs will also back fill it. So in fact, we are depleted to begin with, and now back to normal. But, the 300+ ng/dl increase is slightly surprising. (Need the actual number. >1500.... not good enough to diagnose/target culprits.

The conversion from cholesterol takes quite a beating before it becomes testosterone. It starts with the cholesterol side chain cleavage and converts 4 times before it becomes testosterone. Prior to reaching testosterone, it's branched into 12 other pathways and conversions. So the result is considerably degraded, although not to be dismissed. Supplementing DHEA skips 10 of these pathways and conversions. Pregnenolone skips none. Must be DHEA, not preg.

My initial thoughts were that the supplementation, coupled with the natural cholesterol conversion would still not yield 300+ ng/dl increase due to the degradation mentioned above.

Quick off topic -- Keep supplementing please, benefits far outweigh the testosterone elevations.

This is really interesting. Really could use recent lipid profiles. Hypersensitive Steroidogenesis? Abnormally high absorption? Higher conversion to DHEA sulfate by first pass through liver? only observed such benefit with transdermal DHEA, not oral.

Megatron, I'm having a hard time not knowing the actual number. But if we assume that 1500 is it, it's possible but uncommon. You're responding very well to DHEA. So that is your answer from me. But now I'm dying to know more about you.
 
DreDay187 said:
.
Click to expand...

Ok -- so DHEA increases estrogen. I know that can happen by itself in the liver, etc. but is it a more likely explanation that DHEA is actually increases testosterone which is subsequently aromatizing? Since I am on an Aromatase inhibitor (AI), mine is sticking around as testosterone rather than converting to E2.
 
Austinite said:
Hi Megatron28,

You're making my brain go way way back and really work for this one. I'm going to type as I think aloud to keep focus...

Exogenous testosterone will suppress DHEA and Pregnenolone (it does not completely eliminate it). By supplementing with these drugs, we're replacing what is missing. It "Back fills" pathways to steroidogenesis. This is the P450cc pathway (Cholesterol side chain cleavage enzyme). hCG can actually do this for by activating the pathway (subject using hCG? need to know if Rx'd...). But the 2 drugs will also back fill it. So in fact, we are depleted to begin with, and now back to normal. But, the 300+ ng/dl increase is slightly surprising. (Need the actual number. >1500.... not good enough to diagnose/target culprits.

The conversion from cholesterol takes quite a beating before it becomes testosterone. It starts with the cholesterol side chain cleavage and converts 4 times before it becomes testosterone. Prior to reaching testosterone, it's branched into 12 other pathways and conversions. So the result is considerably degraded, although not to be dismissed. Supplementing DHEA skips 10 of these pathways and conversions. Pregnenolone skips none. Must be DHEA, not preg.

My initial thoughts were that the supplementation, coupled with the natural cholesterol conversion would still not yield 300+ ng/dl increase due to the degradation mentioned above.

Quick off topic -- Keep supplementing please, benefits far outweigh the testosterone elevations.

This is really interesting. Really could use recent lipid profiles. Hypersensitive Steroidogenesis? Abnormally high absorption? Higher conversion to DHEA sulfate by first pass through liver? only observed such benefit with transdermal DHEA, not oral.

Megatron, I'm having a hard time not knowing the actual number. But if we assume that 1500 is it, it's possible but uncommon. You're responding very well to DHEA. So that is your answer from me. But now I'm dying to know more about you.
Click to expand...

Hi Austinite! Thanks for helping me out. My brain is hurting now despite all the supposed benefits from DHEA and Pregnenolone. :-)

I am not using hCG. That is why I decided to supplement DHEA and Pregnenolone.

I wish I could give you an actuall TT number. Good old Labcorp likes to use >1500. I can't tell you how much greater unfortunately.

I am using oral DHEA and Prenenolone. I can give you the brands if you like. I bought them on Amazon.


Here are my lipid numbers:

I used to have cholesterol in the low 200's before I started TRT. My numbers ran approximately:

Total 200-224 (100-199)
Triglycerides 219-253 (0-149)
HDL 36-40 (40+)
LDL 111-140 (0-99)

I decided to take cholesterol medication (Pravistatin). It lowered my LDL into the 90's and my Total into the 160's.

To further complicate things, I stopped taking Pravistatin about 2-3 months ago -- long story. Here are my cholesterol lab results which were taken in September and yesterday (same reference ranges as above).

Total 141 & 152
Tri 113 & 108
HDL 31 & 33
LDL 87 & 97

My cholesterol is better than ever without any medication. If only I could get my HDL up, but that is a different conversation.

I'm an open book. I'll tell you whatever I can about me.

So, sounds like you are recommending that I continue the DHEA and Pregnenolone. I can lower my Testosterone Cypionate dosage to get be back into the normal range and keep my doctor happy I suppose.
 
Bingo. :)

So now we know your cholesterol improvement is a player in this equation (Outstanding job there by the way). Better Cholesterol levels means healthier steroidogenesis. If you're not using Vitamin D, please do so.

Anyway, Pravastatin is a HMG CoA reductase inhibitor. A statin, if you will. They work, but they also lower intracellular cholesterol, which much testosterone conversion is dependant on. It was lowering your test conversion via P450cc pathway. Couple this with supplementation, better lipid profile and I think that's your answer.

ps. What brands you using?
 
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