Cycle for muscle qulaity and hardness

[installingmuscles]

Hi Guys, I am an endo-meso body type - I weigh around 205lbs/93kg , tall 5ft 10 and have 12-13% bodyfat.
I do not hold too much bodyfat however I lack muscle roundness and vascularity .

My diet consists of the classic bodybuilding "clean food".

Have any of you guys tried masteron/winstrol cycle and Clen? I heared it is a very good cycle for definition/hardness.?

I am planning this cycle:

week1&2 masteron 300mg Clen only
week3-week10 masteron proponiate 300mg winstrol 50mg everyday and test cyp 250mg a week

I will cycle Clen 2 weeks on 2 weeks off.

PCT: nolva
clomid

Before you flame me , I will start the first two weeks with no test to get that hardness and from week 3 onwards i hope that my muscles will fill nicely with the test. I do not want to go test crazy this is not my first or second cycle i have experience with previous ones when i go above 500 mgs of test i get big but when I pass the 6 weeks mark I get bloated. and please for those who says that to take masteron if youre below 10% i do not agree with your view at least not in my experience.

 

[Hypnotix]

Hi Guys, I am an endo-meso body type - I weigh around 205lbs/93kg , tall 5ft 10 and have 12-13% bodyfat.
I do not hold too much bodyfat however I lack muscle roundness and vascularity .

My diet consists of the classic bodybuilding "clean food".

Have any of you guys tried masteron/winstrol cycle and Clen? I heared it is a very good cycle for definition/hardness.?

I am planning this cycle:

week1&2 masteron 300mg Clen only
week3-week10 masteron proponiate 300mg winstrol 50mg everyday and test cyp 250mg a week

I will cycle Clen 2 weeks on 2 weeks off.

PCT: nolva
clomid

Before you flame me , I will start the first two weeks with no test to get that hardness and from week 3 onwards i hope that my muscles will fill nicely with the test. I do not want to go test crazy this is not my first or second cycle i have experience with previous ones when i go above 500 mgs of test i get big but when I pass the 6 weeks mark I get bloated. and please for those who says that to take masteron if youre below 10% i do not agree with your view at least not in my experience.

Expect a full critique by the members here. If someone has a problem with you using Masteron above 10% BF.. then they will say so regardless of your view probably.

I could be wrong here.. but you didn't mention use of an AI. You wonder why after week 6 you begin to bloat.. well that's when you'll start seeing gains from test and that also means your estrogen is probably high. You're retaining water and bloating because you're not taking an AI!

The reason you probably don't see so much bloat at 250mg/wk is because it's probably not pushing your total test much further than a natural level thus your estrogen isn't coming up so high either.

If you would use an AI to control estrogen/water retention, and use 500mg/wk of Test.. bloat wouldn't be bad and you'd see some great gains. It sounds like you've done more than a couple cycles? Have you ever had bloodwork done before, during, or after?

I'm gonna bet the vets and mods on here will recommend you hold off before starting this. Especially if you have never had bloods.. Gotta know where you stand before and after AT LEAST.. who knows if you've ever recovered from your first cycle.

 

[PrinceDianabol]

Expect a full critique by the members here. If someone has a problem with you using Masteron above 10% BF.. then they will say so regardless of your view probably.

I could be wrong here.. but you didn't mention use of an AI. You wonder why after week 6 you begin to bloat.. well that's when you'll start seeing gains from test and that also means your estrogen is probably high. You're retaining water and bloating because you're not taking an AI!

The reason you probably don't see so much bloat at 250mg/wk is because it's probably not pushing your total test much further than a natural level thus your estrogen isn't coming up so high either.

If you would use an AI to control estrogen/water retention, and use 500mg/wk of Test.. bloat wouldn't be bad and you'd see some great gains. It sounds like you've done more than a couple cycles? Have you ever had bloodwork done before, during, or after?

I'm gonna bet the vets and mods on here will recommend you hold off before starting this. Especially if you have never had bloods.. Gotta know where you stand before and after AT LEAST.. who knows if you've ever recovered from your first cycle.

Bang on

Install that^ lol...

 

[installingmuscles]

I make sure that there is more time off than time on before I start another cycle. I have done blood works before and after , and before I start another cycle I wait that everything is in its range.

You are right about the AI but my opinion is why use AI (if there are no sides except bloat) to reduce the strenght of the test? AI will keep estrogen/bloat however it hinders with gains, I am saying from experience once my gym buddy cycled test/deca/dbols and used ai he was not happy with his gains. A year after he did another bulk cycle using same gear/source and did not use ai and his gains were much better. I cannot be 100% sure but I doubt the gear was bunk I cannot recommend to use or not use ai all I am saying everyone is different I learned that my body responds best with low test and let the other compounds do the work. for example best cycle I had was 200 test prop a week 400 tren ace a week and with var 80mg. Many told me that tren will kill my sex drive or I will have tren dick due to high prolactin coz tren will be higher than test however I argued that they both fight for the same receptors and If I am not mistaken tren will attach to the receptors since its stronger than test and if you have too much test youll end up with to much test cruising around your body. I prefer to include compounds which will not aromatise but will give you slow but steady gains many times I see many people who look big in their shirt during the cycle however they loose most of their gains (mostly water gains) as soon as they are off cycle regadless of their pct

 

[PrinceDianabol]

Wrong. You have a lot of research to do. I'm not sure why your giving high tren/low test cycles as examples for not using an AI...

AI's do NOT hinder gains. They need to be used to control e2 to healthy levels. The only weight your not gaining here, is water weight. That is why you bloat. You could carry an extra 10lbs on cycle, especially with compounds like dbol in the mix, and you will literally piss it out at the end of your cycle.

Research is needed here... We like to do things safely and look after our health here.

 

[installingmuscles]

Mr, Know it all I assure you that I look after my health and that I search and search again before I put stuff into my body. If you read correctly that is what I said that that with compounds like dbol you extra weight and get big but it will be water not muscle weight. That is why I prefer compounds which will not aromatise , read correctly pal before you post. I hope youre not one who sits on your computer all day long and base your posts on reading only. You have to READ TRY and figure out how your body responds best. This is where people share their opinions/experiences not where people trying to piss each other off like the comment you posted "install that ^ lol "

 

[Norsegod]

Yeah, high tren/low test is pretty much the norm. You have to use an ai, brother. It does not make test work less. It solely controls e2 levels. Now, yes you do need some e2 in order to gain muscle, but to have it too high will do so much more damage than you need to allow. Especially if your theory is based on another persons 2 cycles that were a year apart, regardless of where the gear came from. Tren is an entirely different drug than any other compound and you cannot compare it to any other cycle. Not to mention that you were running var too. Var is my favorite compound for a damn good reason. As far as going low test with other compounds, I disagree with your ideology. Masteron can be used with higher bf, but I am certain I am not the only one that thinks there are far better compounds that'll get the job done, and far cheaper. Plus, the masteron dose you are considering is a waste of time and money, no matter what your bf is. For the goals you have in mind i would suggest running Test @ 500/week-NPP@300-400/week-var @50-75 per week. First you need to do a lot more research. Thhis is not something you should take lightly. Yeah, everyone is different and you might be able to get away with a cycle or two without proper ancilliary compounds, but i would never suggest it. Ever. The fact that your entire ideology is based on bro science has me concerned. I'm not trying to flame you or be disrespectful, but you have a lot to learn. Also, you are most certainly not a candidate for tren use. I have a firm belief that tren is what should be used after hitting a wall after using just about every other compound first, just like aas is used to break through the wall you hit after natural training after trying every training and diet method possible. You don't need clen, but that is on you. My ttraining partner is built just like you and i got him shredded/vascular just with test and super sets. Think before you act brother,. There is a lot you are leaving to chance and i merely want every bro to be safe. I hate to see anyone become a statistic. This type of behavior is why aas gets such a bad name.

 

[Norsegod]

Mr, Know it all I assure you that I look after my health and that I search and search again before I put stuff into my body. If you read correctly that is what I said that that with compounds like dbol you extra weight and get big but it will be water not muscle weight. That is why I prefer compounds which will not aromatise , read correctly pal before you post. I hope youre not one who sits on your computer all day long and base your posts on reading only. You have to READ TRY and figure out how your body responds best. This is where people share their opinions/experiences not where people trying to piss each other off like the comment you posted "install that ^ lol "

Whoa bro. We're just trying to help. That is no way to act, no matter what someone says, and i'm sure it was merely a jape. Fuck dude...

 

[installingmuscles]

Norsegod I appreciate your help that is why I wrote here but I hate it when someone like Princedianabol tries to make me look like a fool mate or make fun on me thats all. I agree with your thread before, the problem with me is like ive said before when i touch compounds like npp and test I get big and really strong however after 6 weeks i halt the gains and get bloated. thats why I toghout of low test mast and winstrol. regarding tren I did not have sides which I could not control however since I am not a competitive bodybuilder I do not see the need for tren so I agree with you regarding tren. IA question i have I really like old school physique? I wonder if they did use AI before in the 70's 80's? coz they were very good aesthetically. I will consider and see arimidex or another ai maybe it will be my magic bullet

 

[tbonexl]

So u would rather use clen, mast, winny and tren in your cycle to basically control bloating instead of just using test with an ai???... You see where im going with this?...

 

[tbonexl]

http://www.steroidology.com/forum/a.../675497-ology-frequently-asked-questions.html

 

[installingmuscles]

No mate I wont use tren , I use mast and winny and good diet and cardio for hardening vascularity and because they do not aromatise. and isnt mast a mild ai?

 

[tbonexl]

Your adding more compounds to your cycle to compensate for not using an ai. Don't count on mast being an ai. I wouldn't even use mast unless your planning to run atleast 600-750mgs a week. Honestly, you would have a great cycle running 750mgs of test a week with an ai. It would be cheaper too.

 

[Norsegod]

Mast is not an ai. It is so much more in depth than to put it like that. This is what i mean by you need to read, brother. There are just better ways to obtain your goals. An ai will take care of that bloat you fear. After 6 weeks is when that gains really kick in. Yeah, you won't look as big on cycle if you use an ai, but it's not weight that you want on your body anyway. For me, I get pretty bloated on long ester test, but when i use test prop the bloat is almost non existent.

250mg of test is just going to put you at what you re normally. I really think you should try test prop @ 150/eod with var@ 50-75/day and another compound. Mast just isn't for you with your bf that high. You will see some gains, but i promise you that overall you will be disappointed. I have run mast @ 12% bf and @ 8%bf and the difference was so signifacant that you wouldn't believe that I was on masteron both times after seeing me both times. Trust me here. Also, winny is just not a good idea unless you plan to compete and again have low bf. This cycle is just noty your best plan of attack for your goals. Do some reading. Please.

 

[Norsegod]

Your adding more compounds to your cycle to compensate for not using an ai. Don't count on mast being an ai. I wouldn't even use mast unless your planning to run atleast 600-750mgs a week. Honestly, you would have a great cycle running 750mgs of test a week with an ai. It would be cheaper too.

Tbone is right, bro.

 

[installingmuscles]

Ok cheers guys I will look and read about test prop arimidex and var. cheers for your help.

 

[PrinceDianabol]

Mr, Know it all I assure you that I look after my health and that I search and search again before I put stuff into my body. If you read correctly that is what I said that that with compounds like dbol you extra weight and get big but it will be water not muscle weight. That is why I prefer compounds which will not aromatise , read correctly pal before you post. I hope youre not one who sits on your computer all day long and base your posts on reading only. You have to READ TRY and figure out how your body responds best. This is where people share their opinions/experiences not where people trying to piss each other off like the comment you posted "install that ^ lol "

Lol, your very touchy aren't you?

"Install that" was just a pun bro, albeit not my best, but not meant to have a go at you lol. What I stated in my second post was just fact, there was a lot of things wrong in your post so I corrected them. It's how we learn. I have to say though you are certainly NOT looking after your health if your not using an AI. High e2 is simply unhealthy. As the other boys said, relying on other compounds like mast won't help. It's not enough.

Hence why I said more research is needed