Doc won't allow HCG and AI use

3J said:
zinc and dim should fix your problem if its off just a bit
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3J,

How much DIM should a person take per day to manage estrogen for TRT? I'm believe I'm beginning to experience mild sysmptoms of high e2. Nipples are lightly itchy, and a slight tenderness above my left nipple. My Test levels are great, in the upper end of normal, so I don't want to lower my dose. I've upped my zinc to 60mg a day, but not sure how much DIM to take. Also, should the dose of DIM be taken every day? Thanks!
 
TRTnooby said:
I'm on just Test E 50 MG 2x a week for the past 6 weeks. So far I feel great and the only sides I've had is some testicular atrophy and reduced volume of ejactulation, both are just cosmetic,neither of which make taking HCG necessary imo. Though if I was single and potentially showing my nuts to someone for the first time, I might feel different. My E2 was a tiny bit high, but I don't' have any sides from it, so I'm hoping to manage that with some supplements and avoid an AI if I can. Less medicine is better imo.
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Wait till you 8 month down the road and you don't ejaculate. You will be running for the HCG. Don't worry it works fast.
 
TRTnooby said:
49 but it was the regular assay not the sensitive, so it could be 10-20 points lower. I haven't checked in awhile, but probably around 20-22%
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If the 49 reading was at trough, your e2 may be quite a bit higher at peak. When I was on 50mg test 2w without an AI, I felt really good right before my next injection. But 24-48 hours after injection, when I'd assume my e2 was at peak, I was a real bitch.
 
Dreaded Pirate Roberts said:
Wait till you 8 month down the road and you don't ejaculate. You will be running for the HCG. Don't worry it works fast.
Click to expand...

That actually doesn't sound bad tbh. The wife has been trying to get a 3rd kid out of me and I've been resisting. Guess I'll find out in 8 months.

APOLLON said:
32 pg/ml how many days from shot?
These are new labs you ran for estradiol?
How long have you been on the zinc and DIM?
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It was 32 the morning of my next shot, 3.5 days since my last one. I've since moved to E3D since that blood work, so my next one will be 3d since a shot. I'd been taking the zinc and DIM for 4 weeks. My next blood work is in February.

Gossamer said:
If the 49 reading was at trough, your e2 may be quite a bit higher at peak. When I was on 50mg test 2w without an AI, I felt really good right before my next injection. But 24-48 hours after injection, when I'd assume my e2 was at peak, I was a real bitch.
Click to expand...

Yes 49 was at Trough, which is why I started taking the Zinc and DIM, I wanted to try that before an AI since I didn't have any symptoms of high E2. I took that for 4 weeks and my most recent blood work last month it was down to 32, still no symptoms of high E2 so far so good.
 
49 is perfect, no reason to mess with it

What he means by not ejaculating has nothing to do with having kids. You will become desensitized to ejaculation, and you will barely feel it when it happens.
 
THE-DET-OAK said:
49 is perfect, no reason to mess with it

What he means by not ejaculating has nothing to do with having kids. You will become desensitized to ejaculation, and you will barely feel it when it happens.
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Well that will definitely be a reason to start HCG!
 
TRTnooby said:
Well that will definitely be a reason to start HCG!
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Yes but by then the leydig cells will be so desensitized it will take high dosages for long periods of time to get them back to function, leaving you susceptible to estrogen side effects.

Only a few reasons to not take HCG with your TRT, and these are extremely rare.
 
THE-DET-OAK said:
Yes but by then the leydig cells will be so desensitized it will take high dosages for long periods of time to get them back to function, leaving you susceptible to estrogen side effects.

Only a few reasons to not take HCG with your TRT, and these are extremely rare.
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Thats actually in direct contradiction to what I've read. Care to offer any sources to back up that statement?
 
first of all, believe nothing you read and half of what you see.

Next, why don't you post what you have read? I would LOVE to hear this one.

Please tell me how the leydig cells would be less desensitized if not on HCG.

This should be good.

Next you will tell me HCG desensitizes the leydig cells.

I usually tell everyone to read up, but I am starting to think in particular you read too much............:bsflag:

Ive done this with new guys just like you about a gazillion times.

As a matter of fact from now on when I want to do something, I think I am just going to ask you what you have read about it......
 
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yes its a water based solution, so it does have a short half life....

Please I am waiting, tell me about this thing you read about how your leydig cells will be less desensitized by not taking HCG.

I await your response big mouth :)

This is your opportunity to call me out and teach me something, as you have been trying to do so desperately.

Hurry up lets go.
 
also while you are here and have the time to reply to my post's, can I ask you a question?

Does anabolic steroid induced primary hypogonadism exist? or is it a myth?
 
First you say if you don't use HCG for a while, it will take a long time for it to work when you do, then you admit its a water based solution with a short half life, which leads me to believe its actually fast acting. Which is it?

What I've called you out for is making unsupported statements like "if you don't' take HCG you'r arteries will harden", claiming to have data, then not providing any. I'm still very much in the information gathering mode. I have recently started T replacement, and so far I feel great. I'm investigating the possibility of adding HCG, weighing the costs/benefits, ect.

You rep a program that pushes HCG, I'm going to be skeptical of someone selling something, as any informed consumer would be. When questioned you bully, not exactly someone I would see as a trusted advisor.
 
TRTnooby said:
First you say if you don't use HCG for a while, it will take a long time for it to work when you do, then you admit its a water based solution with a short half life, which leads me to believe its actually fast acting. Which is it?

What I've called you out for is making unsupported statements like "if you don't' take HCG you'r arteries will harden", claiming to have data, then not providing any. I'm still very much in the information gathering mode. I have recently started T replacement, and so far I feel great. I'm investigating the possibility of adding HCG, weighing the costs/benefits, ect.

You rep a program that pushes HCG, I'm going to be skeptical of someone selling something, as any informed consumer would be. When questioned you bully, not exactly someone I would see as a trusted advisor.
Click to expand...

Nooby: I want to reiterate that I have learned a lot about TRT from Det Oak. He has forgotten more about TRT than most of us will ever know. It is OK to question him and ask for more information, but you are doing it in a confrontational manner. You are also questioning his integrity -- even when guys like me have vouched for him. Please try to ask your questions in a collaborative manner. In a manner where we are all helping each other out and learning from each other.

I think a lot of guys are like me. We had a lot of questions about hypodonadism and TRT. The search for answers brought us to 'Ology. Fortunately there were a lot of guys here that had walked in out shoes and could help us. I just want to "pay it forward".

As for hCG, while it does have a short half life and enter your system quickly, that does not mean that it can exert an effect quickly on leydig cells that have become very desensitized. Just because you take a drug, it doesn't mean that it fixes the problem overnight.

Now let me reiterate. I am asking you to have a dialogue in a mature and respectful manner. We are all here to learn from each other. It isn't a contest to see who is the smartest.
 
45
TRTnooby said:
First you say if you don't use HCG for a while, it will take a long time for it to work when you do, then you admit its a water based solution with a short half life, which leads me to believe its actually fast acting. Which is it?

What I've called you out for is making unsupported statements like "if you don't' take HCG you'r arteries will harden", claiming to have data, then not providing any. I'm still very much in the information gathering mode. I have recently started T replacement, and so far I feel great. I'm investigating the possibility of adding HCG, weighing the costs/benefits, ect.

You rep a program that pushes HCG, I'm going to be skeptical of someone selling something, as any informed consumer would be. When questioned you bully, not exactly someone I would see as a trusted advisor.
Click to expand...

Thats it? No studies on desensitization?

Do you even understand what suppression is? I honestly think you don't, and thats kind of scary actually. Suppression is to be taken seriously.

Also how HCG reacts to different levels of suppression and receptor down-regulation is a completely different subject then when it actually makes the testes begin to produce testosterone estradiol and Progesterone.

It can take 8+ months just FYI

There is very little research on the effects and recovery aspect of suppressing the HPTA.

also what is anabolic steroid induced primary hypogonadism?
 
Last edited:
Megatron28 said:
Nooby: I want to reiterate that I have learned a lot about TRT from Det Oak. He has forgotten more about TRT than most of us will ever know. It is OK to question him and ask for more information, but you are doing it in a confrontational manner. You are also questioning his integrity -- even when guys like me have vouched for him. Please try to ask your questions in a collaborative manner. In a manner where we are all helping each other out and learning from each other.

I think a lot of guys are like me. We had a lot of questions about hypodonadism and TRT. The search for answers brought us to 'Ology. Fortunately there were a lot of guys here that had walked in out shoes and could help us. I just want to "pay it forward".

As for hCG, while it does have a short half life and enter your system quickly, that does not mean that it can exert an effect quickly on leydig cells that have become very desensitized. Just because you take a drug, it doesn't mean that it fixes the problem overnight.

Now let me reiterate. I am asking you to have a dialogue in a mature and respectful manner. We are all here to learn from each other. It isn't a contest to see who is the smartest.
Click to expand...

Regardless of what you've learned from him, I don't agree with the scaremongering he's done about HCG since his return a couple of days ago. While I may have been confrontational, I do not think I've been in any way disrespectful. Pointing out someone's potential conflicts of interest when then have a product or service they are selling is a vital part of any discourse. I do not believe I've impuned his integrity in any way. If you are selling something, you have the natural incentive to sing its praises. If you think pointing that out and questioning someone when they make unsupported claims about risks of not using what they are selling is disrespectful than you have awfully thin skin.


THE-DET-OAK said:
45

Thats it? No studies on desensitization?

Do you even understand what suppression is? I honestly think you don't, and thats kind of scary actually. Suppression is to be taken seriously.

Also how HCG reacts to different levels of suppression and receptor down-regulation is a completely different subject then when it actually makes the testes begin to produce testosterone estradiol and Progesterone.

It can take 8+ months just FYI

There is very little research on the effects and recovery aspect of suppressing the HPTA.

also what is anabolic steroid induced primary hypogonadism?
Click to expand...

Why are you such a bully when people don't agree with you, or question you?
 
im not a bully I'm right, and i know it :) thats what experience means.

you will learn as you go young padiwon :Poke:

Also explain the ASIPH people want to know, I will probably get a few PM's about it and I want to know what to tell them :bootyshak
 
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